Yesterday's 10.3.9 (2006-006) Security Update causes kernel crashes :(

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
Hello,

I run a Powerbook 15'' 1.5GHZ, and running yesterday's 10.3.9 (2006-006) security update seems to have borked my PB.

I've had 8 kernel panics in the 24 hours since running it :( (grey screen, black panel saying 'reboot' in 4 languages)

Can anyone help?

Digging around in 'console' log file, I can't find any reason, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong log file.

I just had my PB back from a LCD inverter repair, so I thought that was the reason at first, tho I can't see why that would cause software errors.

Looking at the contents of the 2006-006 Security update

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/securityupdate20060061039client.html

there is certainly a lot of underlying tweaking there that could be causing kernel panics. Possibly a clash with Flip4Mac / QuickDraw? Some, but not all of the panics have occured midway through opening new windows / overlay elements.

Any help or hints? (have repaired permissions, didn't help.)
 

xsedrinam

macrumors 601
Oct 21, 2004
4,347
1
I had some trouble with it, too. It broke my CS2 VersionCue as I mentioned here. I've dumped some language files out of the Legal folder, but it's still broke.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
iGary said:
You mean 10.3.8?

Have you tried running weekly maintenance, FSCK, PRAM, etc?
No, 10.3.9 !

---
System Version: Mac OS X 10.3.9 (7W98)
Kernel Version: Darwin 7.9.0
Boot Volume: Macintosh HD
Computer Name: Excalibur
----

Have run all the cron scripts, but not fsck or pram, I don't think they will do anything useful. Will try them if needed.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
mad jew said:
Definitely see how fsck goes. What sort of third party hardware do you have installed or connected? :)
Grr, kernel panics twice while writing this post. Now doing it on spare iBook.

No extra hardware attached. 1GB ram from another MR member installed a year ago.

Just got PB back from having a new LCD inverter board installed. Could they have put it back together not quite right? Could that be causing panics?

Apart from the panics, all the hardware LCD etc is working fine.

'Other' items in System Prefs: DoubleCommand, StuffitAVR, Flip4Mac2.1 (recently updated)

FSCK - booted with Install DVD (10.3.5), first run showed 2 errors, 1 fixed.

2nd and 3rd runs showed all errors fixed, as did running fsck in single user mode.

Still getting kernel panics.

Repairing permissions via the Install DVD threw up "Disk Utility has lost its connection with the Disk Management Tool and cannot continue. Please quit and relaunch Disk Utility" :eek:

Investigating, found it was cos the DVD has an outdated BOM (Bill of Materials). Running Repair Permissions via Disk Utility on 10.3.9 from the HD gave all permissions repaired.

Still getting kernel panics.

Any more tips?
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
Yup still kernel panics, after all the steps carried out above. Damn!

Using Applejack to look for problems now.

After fsck, repair permissions.

Two issues thrown up:
For architecture i386 object: ./Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunes malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD command 31 can't byte swap it)

For architecture i386 object: ./Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/Resources/iTuneshelper.app/Contents/MacOS/iTuneshelper malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD command 14 can't byte swap it)
After this, it said all permissions repaired.

All other Applejack operations went smoothly.

Wonder if somehow, the security update inserted i386 code into my G4 Powerbook OS?
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
Still kernel panicing.

Considering removing iTunes (I never use it) or removing the security update.

Is there any way I can remove the security update?
 

Mojo67821

macrumors regular
Apr 20, 2006
196
0
I'm not having kernel panics, but FireFox keeps squitting on me while running my fantasy football app. It's a Java window with realtime scores and updates. The only thing different from last week is the update, so I'm assuming it has something to do with the update.
 

John Jacob

macrumors 6502a
Feb 11, 2003
548
9
Columbia, MD
Gadzooks!! :eek:

I installed it this morning (along with 2006-005, QuickTime 7.13 and iTunes 7.01). I haven't had any kernel panics yet; I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,199
6
Adelaide, Australia
System updates can often tip RAM that isn't perfect over the edge. In other words, even if your RAM has been fine up until now, system updates can act as the final straw that broke the camel's back and go bad. Unfortunately, if this is the case there's no fix other than to replace the RAM.

Now, having said that I think the two most likely candidates for the cause of your kernel panics appear to be either RAM or the LCD inverter board. The RAM is easier to check so I'd start by taking that out (if feasible). The LCD board is much harder to check because it won't come up on the Hardware Test. How long ago was this installed and did you have even a single kernel panic before this system update but after the board was installed?

One final thing; if you boot from the OSX discs, do you ever get a panic? :)


John Jacob said:
I installed it this morning (along with 2006-005, QuickTime 7.13 and iTunes 7.01). I haven't had any kernel panics yet; I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

You'll probably be fine. These boards always give the impression that system updates are more malicious than they ever actually are, simply because people post about their problems but don't post if eveything's fine. I wouldn't worry about your system if it's all working well. :)
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
mad jew said:
Now, having said that I think the two most likely candidates for the cause of your kernel panics appear to be either RAM or the LCD inverter board. The RAM is easier to check so I'd start by taking that out (if feasible). The LCD board is much harder to check because it won't come up on the Hardware Test. How long ago was this installed and did you have even a single kernel panic before this system update but after the board was installed?
Sequence:

1. Leaky roof drips on my PB, blows backlight. Use PB pretty heavily with external monitor for about a week, no crashes.

2. Send off for repair of inverter board.

3. It returns, I start it up, check LCD is fine (perfect!) and within about 20 minutes, start up softwareupdate, which downloads the new updates.

4. After rebooting, it starts kernel panicing. These usually occur within 30 minutes to 1 hour after a restart. (sometimes within 5 minutes.) No pattern noticeable.

----------------------

Mad Jew I've just taken out the 1GB RAM, and apart from being pig slow on 256MB, it seems to work fine. Started a few quicktime windows, 10 firefox tabs on myspace, some flash games, after an hour of pegged processing and diskswapping, it's still up.

Seems like it was indeed the RAM! Thanks for helping - I would have never guessed it with all the red herrings in my way.

-----------------------

Hmm. I need my RAM as I'm a heavy user and video editor.

Options:

- Downgrade the OS to 10.3.8

- Upgrade to 10.4.8 (or stick at 10.4.7)

- A new 1GB stick from Crucial is £94, and if I get the 'Mac' one it's £97. (Seems foolish to get the cheaper one if the system is so sensitive.) Overall, a dubious use of money. as I'm left with an unuseable 1GB stick.

I'm leaning towards upgrading to Tiger ( I can get a spare licence from work.) Will that fix it? (especially if I stay at 10.4.7)
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
it's kernel panicing again:(

The only RAM installed is the 256MB Apple orginal RAM stick.

Yesterday it was fine all day, and now it's panicked twice in the last 30 minutes :(
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,199
6
Adelaide, Australia
Okay, let's go back to Console. Were you looking through the system.log? A couple of side points:


  1. Once RAM goes bad, downgrading the OS won't help. It's bad RAM and the only thing that can be done is replace it. Some PCs are less picky about their RAM so you may be able to try it in one of them, but chances are it won't work in a Mac again.
  2. Resetting the PRAM will reset all these logs so avoid doing this after a kernel panic for now, if only to see whether the logs have anything to say.


As you said, there are quite a few red herrings here so in the end, it may be quicker and easier to take it to a technician who can properly test them and hopefully determine the culprit - assuming the logs don't give us any clues. :)
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
Aye, I've had enough of this pissing about, so I've taken it back to the repair shop that did the LCD repair and told them to sort it out.

They told me that maybe the water splash also damaged the mainboard and that they would check it out tomorrow. I was tired from a long day at work so I said ok cool.

Just now tonight I remembered that I used the PB for a couple of weeks hooked to an external monitor (after the blown LCD but before the repair) and it didn't crash once. Only started crashing after the repair.

Have emailed the shop and told them this. Hope they read it before they open up my PB tomorrow. Grr, wish I could remember these things at the right time :(

I haven't said anything to them about the system security update. Should I ?

(Tho I have told them about it being slighly more stable with the 1GB stick removed, but still crashing with only the original apple RAM in).
 

dropscience

macrumors newbie
Oct 2, 2006
14
0
what brand of RAM were you using?


RedTomato said:
Sequence:

1. Leaky roof drips on my PB, blows backlight. Use PB pretty heavily with external monitor for about a week, no crashes.

2. Send off for repair of inverter board.

3. It returns, I start it up, check LCD is fine (perfect!) and within about 20 minutes, start up softwareupdate, which downloads the new updates.

4. After rebooting, it starts kernel panicing. These usually occur within 30 minutes to 1 hour after a restart. (sometimes within 5 minutes.) No pattern noticeable.

----------------------

Mad Jew I've just taken out the 1GB RAM, and apart from being pig slow on 256MB, it seems to work fine. Started a few quicktime windows, 10 firefox tabs on myspace, some flash games, after an hour of pegged processing and diskswapping, it's still up.

Seems like it was indeed the RAM! Thanks for helping - I would have never guessed it with all the red herrings in my way.

-----------------------

Hmm. I need my RAM as I'm a heavy user and video editor.

Options:

- Downgrade the OS to 10.3.8

- Upgrade to 10.4.8 (or stick at 10.4.7)

- A new 1GB stick from Crucial is £94, and if I get the 'Mac' one it's £97. (Seems foolish to get the cheaper one if the system is so sensitive.) Overall, a dubious use of money. as I'm left with an unuseable 1GB stick.

I'm leaning towards upgrading to Tiger ( I can get a spare licence from work.) Will that fix it? (especially if I stay at 10.4.7)
 

nsbio

macrumors 6502a
Aug 8, 2006
634
0
NC
Your problem must be an isolated incident (bad memory?). I have a 1.5Ghz 15'' PB and 10.3.9 has been ok, before or after the update... Unless, of course, my PB being ok is an isolated incident ;) .
 

aquajet

macrumors 68020
Feb 12, 2005
2,384
0
VA
Sounds like you've exhausted all the home-troubleshooting procedures. Time to call a technician. :(
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,199
6
Adelaide, Australia
RedTomato said:
They told me that maybe the water splash also damaged the mainboard and that they would check it out tomorrow. I was tired from a long day at work so I said ok cool.

Yeah, the water on the logic board really throws things into disarray. Hopefully nothing has short circuited but if something has, hopefully it's just a minor component. Either way, it's something that can really only be checked in person by a technician or someone who knows what they're looking for.


RedTomato said:
Just now tonight I remembered that I used the PB for a couple of weeks hooked to an external monitor (after the blown LCD but before the repair) and it didn't crash once. Only started crashing after the repair.

Have emailed the shop and told them this. Hope they read it before they open up my PB tomorrow. Grr, wish I could remember these things at the right time :(

Interesting. I wonder what exactly they did to the machine when they took it in for repair.


RedTomato said:
I haven't said anything to them about the system security update. Should I ?

Tell them everything. They should be able to filter through what is important but it'll make it easier for them if you tell them what you can.


RedTomato said:
(Tho I have told them about it being slighly more stable with the 1GB stick removed, but still crashing with only the original apple RAM in).

This is interesting and makes me think you have more than one problem with your machine. I wouldn't be surprised if either the RAM or the slot it was in is dead, however I think you might unfortunately have more problems than just that. :eek:

Good luck with the technicians. Hopefully they'll get it sorted soon. :)
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Original poster
Mar 4, 2005
4,018
314
.. London ..
dropscience said:
what brand of RAM were you using?
Samsung. Pulled from another PB, and used in mine for over a year with no panics. After the water damage, my PB still worked fine without crashing until the bloody LCD repair.

I noticed something while I was checking out the RAM, don't know if it's normal or not, but when I took off the ram bay door, the anti-static fabric around the bay seemed rather fuzzy, with various little hairs hanging off it. A few of the hairs had also dropped off.

Maybe I'm talking total nonsense but maybe the fabric got scraped on something while the PB was dissasembled in the repair shop and the shedding mini-hairs are causing mini-shorts in the logic board /ram / other components?

It's gone back to the repair shop now, so I can't take any pics. I do seem to remember the antistatic fabric wasn't fuzzy last time I opened the bay, which was when I put in the 1GB stick a year ago.