Yet another MBA 2020 i5 vs i7 question

[Siriosys]

I wouldn't put it past Apple to produce a new 14inch MBP that is somewhat more expensive than the MBA.

It's not in their interests to blur the lines between the two product lines.

The "Pro" versions of their laptops really do need to be "Pro" level and not "Consumer" level, such as what the MBA is aimed at.

The problem comes from "Prosumers" who either think they need more power than they actually use, or think they need more power than they're actually prepared to pay for.

I currently run the 2020 MBA i7,16,512 machine as I tend to use a number of VM applications (VMware and Parallels mainly). And the single thing that makes the fan go crazy in this machine is CHROME! every.single.time. That browser is the single most inefficient piece of software I have in both my VM's and my physical machine. Any time I use FaceTime, Safari etc etc, I don't even hear the fans. As soon as Chrome is started, things start to really heat up.

For me, the temps are not a hardware problem, they're a software problem...

 

[jonen]

Ordered the 2020 with i5/16GB/512GB this morning. I've been scouring all the reviews / articles on the heat issue and performance gap between the i5 and i7, but my end conclusion was that it was not worth the hassle of feeling like I'd "wasted" the extra $150.

At the end of the day, the MBA will most likely be fine for all my (wife's) personal use, amateur video editing included. It'll definitely be quieter/cooler than my 2015 MBP that seems to run hotter each day, and it doesn't have a bad keyboard. I don't think we will be disappointed!

 

[deeddawg]

Ordered the 2020 with i5/16GB/512GB this morning. I've been scouring all the reviews / articles on the heat issue and performance gap between the i5 and i7, but my end conclusion was that it was not worth the hassle of feeling like I'd "wasted" the extra $150.

At the end of the day, the MBA will most likely be fine for all my (wife's) personal use, amateur video editing included. It'll definitely be quieter/cooler than my 2015 MBP that seems to run hotter each day, and it doesn't have a bad keyboard. I don't think we will be disappointed!

You should be pleased. I've had mine here most of the day as I'd multitask between my primary work computer and my MBA fiddling with stuff. Performance with the typical mail/safari/calendar has been snappy. PhotoMechanic and Luminar4 work nicely and I've yet to hear the fan come on today as I've tried out stuff. Haven't done anything with a sustained CPU load like batch processing a bunch of images. Topcase temp via IR thermometer is 84F at the 6-F6-7 key junction.

I don't know that I'd notice an i7/i5 difference in what I use this system for so I'm glad I didn't go for that upgrade.

I'd also say that if your workload is sufficiently CPU-bound that the i7 would make a significant real world difference, you'd probably be better off with a MBP than a MBA.

 

[magbarn]

Ordered the 2020 with i5/16GB/512GB this morning. I've been scouring all the reviews / articles on the heat issue and performance gap between the i5 and i7, but my end conclusion was that it was not worth the hassle of feeling like I'd "wasted" the extra $150.

At the end of the day, the MBA will most likely be fine for all my (wife's) personal use, amateur video editing included. It'll definitely be quieter/cooler than my 2015 MBP that seems to run hotter each day, and it doesn't have a bad keyboard. I don't think we will be disappointed!

With the quad core and 16gb of ram, you're going to be set for some time. Your wife will be happy with it for those uses.

 

[Philpug]

If you don’t need to buy now and think there’s a chance a MBP would be a better fit to your needs, wait for the next release. Decide when you have an informed choice.

don’t take that as a negative to the MBA- I’m very happy with mine so far. Just the reality that different folks need different things.

I am far from a "Pro" user, the only reason I am thinking about a MBP is IF the 14" comes. IF I had to buy now, a MBA 13 would be the choice over a MBP 13. Fortunately, I don't need to make a choice at the moment.IF there is a 14" MBP AND it keeps the current 13" pricing structure, it WILL be worth the $400 difference over the MBA 13".

 

[Spectrum]

At the moment the 13 inch MBPros with better thermals are so much more expensive than the MBAir:
256GB/8GB 1.1/3.5Ghz i5 MBAir = $1099 (single fan 10W CPU)
256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1499 (single fan 15W CPU) +$400
256GB/8GB 2.4/4.1Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799 (dual fan 25W CPU) +$700
Pricing is bonkers. And I really don't want that touchbar.

Given that I want 16GB and a 1TB disk, the pricing of the 13 inch MBPro gets even crazier.
1TB/16GB 1.2/3.8Ghz i7 MBAir = $1849
1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2399 (+$550)!!
1TB/16GB 2.8/4.7Ghz i7 MBPro = $2699 (+$850)!!

That last model is my favoured specification (except for touchbar), but at $2699 it is more expensive than a 16" MBPro!
1TB/16GB 2.6/4.5Ghz i7 6-core MBPro = $2599

The big question in my mind is: "Will the i5 or i7 MBAir be good enough now, and in 4-5 years?"

Well, the new 13 inch MBPros have dropped sooner than I expected.
Equivalent prices are:

256GB/8GB 1.1/3.5Ghz i5 MBAir = $1099
OLD:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1499
NEW:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1299 (-$200!)
OLD:256GB/8GB 2.4/4.1Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799
NEW:512GB/16GB 2.0/3.8Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799 (-$0) (but double RAM and SSD!)

Or for 16GB and a 1TB disk:
1TB/16GB 1.2/3.8Ghz i7 MBAir = $1849
OLD: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2399
NEW: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2099 (-$300!!)
OLD: 1TB/16GB 2.8/4.7Ghz i7 MBPro = $2699
NEW: 1TB/16GB 2.3/4.1Ghz i7 MBPro = $2199 (-$500!!!)

Very interesting release - the upgraded models have very competitive RAM and SSD prices/specs now.
10th gen i7 CPU upgrades seem less compelling though given the much lower base AND boost speed (4.1 vs 4.7).

 

[deeddawg]

Well, the new 13 inch airs have dropped sooner than I expected.
Equivalent prices are:

256GB/8GB 1.1/3.5Ghz i5 MBAir = $1099
OLD:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1499
NEW:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1299 (-$200!)
OLD:256GB/8GB 2.4/4.1Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799
NEW:512GB/16GB 2.0/3.8Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799 (-$0) (but double RAM and SSD!)

Or for 16GB and a 1TB disk:
1TB/16GB 1.2/3.8Ghz i7 MBAir = $1849
OLD: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2399
NEW: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2099 (-$300!!)
OLD: 1TB/16GB 2.8/4.7Ghz i7 MBPro = $2699
NEW: 1TB/16GB 2.3/4.1Ghz i7 MBPro = $2199 (-$500!!!)

Very interesting release - the upgraded models have very competitive RAM and SSD prices/specs now.
10th gen i7 CPU upgrades seem less compelling though given the much lower base AND boost speed (4.1 vs 4.7).

Presumably you mean the new MBP13s?

Interesting that the 1.4GHz i5 is 8th generation, and the 2.0GHz i5 is 10th generation.

 

[Philpug]

Back to MBA vs. MBP with the $$ being much less now. Choices...choices...Damn you Apple.

 

[Spectrum]

Presumably you mean the new MBP13s?

Interesting that the 1.4GHz i5 is 8th generation, and the 2.0GHz i5 is 10th generation.

View attachment 911996

Yep - MBPro!

Another interesting pricing/spec comparison is the:
10th Gen MBAir 1.1/3.5 16GB/512 = $1499 vs
8th gen MBPro 1.4/3.9 16GB/512 = $1599

So, for $100 you get older gen CPU, but with better cooling (15W vs 10W), faster SC turbo, plus touchbar (if you like it). Previously, this MBPro would have cost $1899.

 

[KPOM]

Well, the new 13 inch MBPros have dropped sooner than I expected.
Equivalent prices are:

256GB/8GB 1.1/3.5Ghz i5 MBAir = $1099
OLD:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1499
NEW:256GB/8GB 1.4/3.9Ghz i5 MBPro = $1299 (-$200!)
OLD:256GB/8GB 2.4/4.1Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799
NEW:512GB/16GB 2.0/3.8Ghz i5 MBpro = $1799 (-$0) (but double RAM and SSD!)

Or for 16GB and a 1TB disk:
1TB/16GB 1.2/3.8Ghz i7 MBAir = $1849
OLD: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2399
NEW: 1TB/16GB 1.7/4.5Ghz i7 MBPro = $2099 (-$300!!)
OLD: 1TB/16GB 2.8/4.7Ghz i7 MBPro = $2699
NEW: 1TB/16GB 2.3/4.1Ghz i7 MBPro = $2199 (-$500!!!)

Very interesting release - the upgraded models have very competitive RAM and SSD prices/specs now.
10th gen i7 CPU upgrades seem less compelling though given the much lower base AND boost speed (4.1 vs 4.7).

The 10th generation processors are more efficient, so even with the slower speeds I’d recommend them. Anyone contemplating the i7/16/512 Air at $1649 should seriously consider the $1799 13” Pro. Better screen, faster processor, and 4 ports for $150 more, though it is 0.3 lbs heavier.

 

[eallen80]

Yep - MBPro!

Another interesting pricing/spec comparison is the:
10th Gen MBAir 1.1/3.5 16GB/512 = $1499 vs
8th gen MBPro 1.4/3.9 16GB/512 = $1599

So, for $100 you get older gen CPU, but with better cooling (15W vs 10W), faster SC turbo, plus touchbar (if you like it). Previously, this MBPro would have cost $1899.

I was just going to ask about this exact comparison in replacing my 2012 MBP. I'd had my eye on the MBA, but for only $100 I have a feeling I could get more out of the MBP. I'm do photo editing a couple of times a month and very infrequent video editing. My main concern is the heat--I've never been a big fan of how hot the pro gets and I have to imagine the air gets noticeably hotter.

 

[Muyfa666]

And so the new MBP13 is finally released. Cancelling my MBA order now... ;-)

 

[Philpug]

I guess we aren't going to see a 14" MBP.

 

[deeddawg]

I guess we aren't going to see a 14" MBP.

Perhaps one day, but probably not anytime soon.

 

[Spectrum]

The 10th generation processors are more efficient, so even with the slower speeds I’d recommend them. Anyone contemplating the i7/16/512 Air at $1649 should seriously consider the $1799 13” Pro. Better screen, faster processor, and 4 ports for $150 more, though it is 0.3 lbs heavier.

To be fair, surely anyone considering the $1649 i7/16/512 MBAir should also consider:
$1599 13 MBPro: 8th gen 1.4Ghz/3.9Ghz i5/16/512 since it's cheaper. (Or is the 10th gen CPU still that much better even with less cooling etc?)

If the 10th gen are more efficient, how come they cannot turbo boost as high for the same wattage? (Or are these 10th gen i5/i7 CPUs on the 4 port MBPro actually lower wattage than the 8th gen i5/i7 CPUs they replaced?)

 

[IngerMan]

The 10th generation processors are more efficient, so even with the slower speeds I’d recommend them. Anyone contemplating the i7/16/512 Air at $1649 should seriously consider the $1799 13” Pro. Better screen, faster processor, and 4 ports for $150 more, though it is 0.3 lbs heavier.

I agree the new 13” MBP Gen 10 seems like good value for the upgrades. And when you spec out the Air to i7/16/512 your only $170 away from that machine with edu pricing.

But it’s like buying a car kinda. You might just be ready for a change and not looking at the most sensible choice. One gets you further on a tank full, the other is faster on the long trip haul. One is really sleek and comfortable and the other has a touch screen control panel.

Time to take a test ride!

 

[KPOM]

To be fair, surely anyone considering the $1649 i7/16/512 MBAir should also consider:
$1599 13 MBPro: 8th gen 1.4Ghz/3.9Ghz i5/16/512 since it's cheaper. (Or is the 10th gen CPU still that much better even with less cooling etc?)

If the 10th gen are more efficient, how come they cannot turbo boost as high for the same wattage? (Or are these 10th gen i5/i7 CPUs on the 4 port MBPro actually lower wattage than the 8th gen i5/i7 CPUs they replaced?)

It’s apples and oranges. The 10th Gen chips in the Air are the 10W models, which max out around 12W. Remember the Air sports chips that were originally designed for the fanless 12” MacBook. Though they have moved on from 5W to 10W, they weren’t designed to be operated at high speeds for very long. The “15W” 8th Gen chips in the base MacBook Pro actually max out around 25W, so are about twice as fast if you push the CPU to the limit for a sustained period of time.

It’s not a perfect analogy, but compare the MBA chip to a fancy 4-cylinder engine with a turbocharger, and the Pro chip to a V-8. Both perform equally well in a sedan in city traffic, but you wouldn’t put the former in an 8-passenger SUV.

 

[Spectrum]

It’s apples and oranges. The 10th Gen chips in the Air are the 10W models, which max out around 12W. Remember the Air sports chips that were originally designed for the fanless 12” MacBook. Though they have moved on from 5W to 10W, they weren’t designed to be operated at high speeds for very long. The “15W” 8th Gen chips in the base MacBook Pro actually max out around 25W, so are about twice as fast if you push the CPU to the limit for a sustained period of time.

It’s not a perfect analogy, but compare the MBA chip to a fancy 4-cylinder engine with a turbocharger, and the Pro chip to a V-8. Both perform equally well in a sedan in city traffic, but you wouldn’t put the former in an 8-passenger SUV.

Yeah. I just watched a video linked in another thread. I didn't realise that the 8th Gen CPU could sustain 25W and 3Ghz on all cores. This massively outperforms the MBAir for long jobs.

What really surprised me though, is how close the 1.4Ghz 8th Gen is to the 2.0Ghz 10th gen. Despite 1 vs 2 fans and 15W vs 28W TDP processors, and 8th vs 10th gen, they are extremely close in performance. The 8th Gen CPU happily stabilising at 25 watts, whereas the 10th gen, despite the better fans and newer CPU design, only makes 30 watts and the same 3Ghz.

I'd really like to see a comparison between the 8th Gen and 10th gen i7 MBPro models.

 

[KPOM]

Yeah. I just watched a video linked in another thread. I didn't realise that the 8th Gen CPU could sustain 25W and 3Ghz on all cores. This massively outperforms the MBAir for long jobs.

What really surprised me though, is how close the 1.4Ghz 8th Gen is to the 2.0Ghz 10th gen. Despite 1 vs 2 fans and 15W vs 28W TDP processors, and 8th vs 10th gen, they are extremely close in performance. The 8th Gen CPU happily stabilising at 25 watts, whereas the 10th gen, despite the better fans and newer CPU design, only makes 30 watts and the same 3Ghz.

I'd really like to see a comparison between the 8th Gen and 10th gen i7 MBPro models.

Yes, the “28W” chips are basically slightly souped up versions of the “15W” chips. That’s been the case for a while now. So there is a much bigger jump from “10W” to “15W” than from “15W” to “28W”.