People on these boards have long speculated that Apple will be moving away from the hardware spectrum and into the software, such as companies like Atri and Sega have done. The idea of iTunes and the iPod migrating to the PC platform, along with the continued development of the OSX for x86 lead me to believe that they are preparing for that day. People speculate the EOL of the iBook, so maybe what Apple is doing is going to be moving away from the regular consumer market, and with the 970, eventully becomming something like what AlienWare is for the PC. Maybe not, but it seems more and more like Apple is buckling for some hard times, and I am not sure that they are going to survive staying on the Hardware that they have. Who knows. Just a thought. Will Apple become the next Sega (which may be bought my Microsoft in the comming months), or will Apple survive on a dwindling market share? Only time will tell.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yet another step away from Hardware
- Thread starter KingArthur
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sometimes when I think about it, I think maybe they should go directly into the software market. It would be cool to have OSX running on my x86. I know they think they wouldn't be able to make enough coin doing that, but if they had a strong enough following going into that field, they could make it work. I think that may be part of what they are doing with the online music purchasing. It's almost like if they get a hold of something strong like that, something that no one else can touch, then they could make that kind of transition, with alot of followers
I posted a thread about this awhile back, didn't get too many hits, but its an intresting topic..
Is Apple slowly becoming a software company?
Is Apple slowly becoming a software company?
What do you mean EOL the iBook? Isn't it one of their best selling products? It used to be.
Just because Apple makes software for competing platforms doesn't make it a software company exclusively. They are just expanding their market.
People seem to forget that just because something has low market shjare doesn't mean that the company isn't selling any products. It just means that they are selling fewer products compared ti the rest of the market. But if a company can hold on to a steady percentage of a growing market, they will always seel more than they did.
Just because Apple makes software for competing platforms doesn't make it a software company exclusively. They are just expanding their market.
People seem to forget that just because something has low market shjare doesn't mean that the company isn't selling any products. It just means that they are selling fewer products compared ti the rest of the market. But if a company can hold on to a steady percentage of a growing market, they will always seel more than they did.
We know they are not a software company exclusively, I think you are missing the point. We are saying that they seem to be leaning further into that direction, and talking about the possibility of them one day moving over to software exclusively (a la sega).
Re: Re: Yet another step away from Hardware
.000000000001s after the first post expressing the ideaOriginally posted by zarathustra
Am I missing something? When did this become a fact?
didn't sega basically go bankrupt since doing so and is int he process of being taken over. I don't think apple wants to emulate that.
It seems pretty obvious to me that apple makes most of its money in hardware and will continue to do so. Its software offerings are simply a way to 1) drive hardware sales by making macs easy to use to do a lot of things a lot of people want to do. and 2) create additional revenue streams, which is imperative in a down market and to keep shareholders happy. Getting out of a lucrative hardware market where they enjoy by far the highest margins in the industry will not make shareholders happy.
Basically what I'm saying is diversifying offerings doesn't mean they are abandoning something else. Its also important to note that all of the recent software leverages apple's control over the hardware and OS, and peripheral sales like the iPod. its verticle integration of their offerings. This is good business. I wouldn't read anything into it other than that. I mean, otherwise its probably more logical to say apple is becoming a web services comany with .mac and the iTunes store, and I don't think anyone would advocate them going that route to the detriment of their hardware.
Yeah, Sega is in the process of being taken over by either Microsoft or EA Games. True, I don't think Apple WANTS to go the route of Sega.
I was merely stating the idea that I don't remember Apple in the past making too many Apps for the PC other than productivity Apps like AppleWorks. Their iApps are the biggest offerings they have. If they begin developing for the PC, I don't think as many people are going to want to spend the extra money on an iMac than a Dell that can use the super great Apple iLife suite. Yeah, this is only one app, but we have seen the iDisk and iPod go the way of the PC, so I am just wondering what people think. Trying to get a decent debate going to see all the sides of opinions.
I was merely stating the idea that I don't remember Apple in the past making too many Apps for the PC other than productivity Apps like AppleWorks. Their iApps are the biggest offerings they have. If they begin developing for the PC, I don't think as many people are going to want to spend the extra money on an iMac than a Dell that can use the super great Apple iLife suite. Yeah, this is only one app, but we have seen the iDisk and iPod go the way of the PC, so I am just wondering what people think. Trying to get a decent debate going to see all the sides of opinions.
I don't think apple would be a good software only company. they make incredible stuff. for their own OS that they control that goes only on hardware that they also control. i think they would get screwed big time if they had to write software for an open standard platform like x86 that has so many different companies implementing the same standards... apple would cease to be as stable as it has become, methinks.
yeah, apple is doing a much better job recently of finding new revenue streams that hook into their core business. In a few cases, that means offering stuff to the windows crowd as well. I think you'll see things that rpoduce real, recurring revenue streams going over to the PC side as well, but things that make a mac a mac will remain mac only. I don't think I explained that very well, but you probably get what I'm saying. Just my opinion.
"It seems pretty obvious to me that apple makes most of its money in hardware and will continue to do so. Its software offerings are simply a way to 1) drive hardware sales by making macs easy to use to do a lot of things a lot of people want to do. and 2) create additional revenue streams, which is imperative in a down market and to keep shareholders happy. Getting out of a lucrative hardware market where they enjoy by far the highest margins in the industry will not make shareholders happy."
I think strider is exactly right. Apple makes its money on hardware, and although it doesn't have a huge market share, it is one of very few profitable computer companies right now. Moving away from hardware would be a big mistake.
"What do you mean EOL the iBook? Isn't it one of their best selling products? It used to be."
Yes, that is my understanding too. I don't know how this rumor about EOL got started, but now it's getting passed around the boards despite being unfounded and illogical. Last I heard, apple was hurting on the *pro* lines, the PB and PM sales. I belive the the imacs and ibooks are the best sellers.
I think strider is exactly right. Apple makes its money on hardware, and although it doesn't have a huge market share, it is one of very few profitable computer companies right now. Moving away from hardware would be a big mistake.
"What do you mean EOL the iBook? Isn't it one of their best selling products? It used to be."
Yes, that is my understanding too. I don't know how this rumor about EOL got started, but now it's getting passed around the boards despite being unfounded and illogical. Last I heard, apple was hurting on the *pro* lines, the PB and PM sales. I belive the the imacs and ibooks are the best sellers.
well for one alienware isnt any better than the other makers. just a cool case.ive also heard terrible horror stories abotu getting them fixed since few places if any fix them.same hardware and software like the others. actually dell has the best gaming machine i have seen out with their xps, dual 120gb serial raid drives, very drool worthy. but anyways, apple is making money and thats all that counts. they have great machines and the software just adds to it. i think mac os x would be a disaster on a pc, all this hardware that wouldnt work it with and all kinds of stuff. i think apple is doing better than ever,(well not when they first started) i am making new switchers everyday and its so great, and everybody tells me how wonderful it is. i will tell you the line i hear most of all. "I had a mac back in the 80's and it ALWAYS worked, never gave me any problems. I see many people now just wanting back that feeling they had in the 80's and they are loving coming back. apple just needs to keep it up, and hopefull if all these new 970 powermac rumors are true, they can put some really good processors in the imacs and emacs that make them even a better buy.
iJon
iJon
Re: Yet another step away from Hardware
Apple doesn't need to get out of the hardware market - that would be very risky - look at Sega, or NeXT!
But, with Apple making more and more of it's revenue from software (OSX updates, QT Pro, iLife, Final Cut Pro, Shake, iTunes Music Store etc. etc.) they may be able to drastically lower the profit margins on their hardware to gain market share, then reap the benefits of an enlarged user base.
Even cloning might be more feasible.. who knows.
As regards Apple's hardware lineup, assuming the 970 and 980 chips - plus the attendant high speed bus's - are destined for Macs, I think they have little to worry about assuming costs can be kept low.
Mike.
Apple doesn't need to get out of the hardware market - that would be very risky - look at Sega, or NeXT!
But, with Apple making more and more of it's revenue from software (OSX updates, QT Pro, iLife, Final Cut Pro, Shake, iTunes Music Store etc. etc.) they may be able to drastically lower the profit margins on their hardware to gain market share, then reap the benefits of an enlarged user base.
Even cloning might be more feasible.. who knows.
As regards Apple's hardware lineup, assuming the 970 and 980 chips - plus the attendant high speed bus's - are destined for Macs, I think they have little to worry about assuming costs can be kept low.
Mike.
Apple is re-inventing itself
Apple keeps the OSXx86 (Darwinx86) port as a hedge / insurance that they don't get left high and dry by their CPU suppliers. What happens if Moto and IBM ditched the PPC? Think how much time it would take to recover the Apple line if they are caught with their pants down - 1 year, maybe more... would they survive? With an x86 option, they can jump quicker - maybe 6 months or less. A better chance to convert everything (not an easy task however).
For a while, Moto was pretty scary - and IBM was indifferent. Now IBM is coming on board, and even Moto looks like they won't go under. I don't think they will have to use this option (I hope they don't have to use it - I like the PPC).
Forget about Sega as a case study - look what happened to NeXT!!!
Apple wants to re-invent itself as a full service company - from it's humble beginnings as a hardware company. I think they are doing a good job so far - product lines are widening, products are good, more stuff, better access, less bumps. Why do you think they are pursuing this digital life strategy?
I'm sure the hardware will diminish as a overall piece of the pie, simply because Apple wants to increase the size of the pie - and has been very aggressive lately (enterprise products, stores, selling things other than Apple stuff, services, cool software).
No - the iBook is not going away.. it might change, but it is not going away.
The time to worry is when their products come across like the cube (cool, but few sales) - or their products are little different than other company's products (remember "Think Different" is one of their mottos) Luckily, both these points haven't been happening recently and Apple still has great value.
- Wyrm
Apple keeps the OSXx86 (Darwinx86) port as a hedge / insurance that they don't get left high and dry by their CPU suppliers. What happens if Moto and IBM ditched the PPC? Think how much time it would take to recover the Apple line if they are caught with their pants down - 1 year, maybe more... would they survive? With an x86 option, they can jump quicker - maybe 6 months or less. A better chance to convert everything (not an easy task however).
For a while, Moto was pretty scary - and IBM was indifferent. Now IBM is coming on board, and even Moto looks like they won't go under. I don't think they will have to use this option (I hope they don't have to use it - I like the PPC).
Forget about Sega as a case study - look what happened to NeXT!!!
Apple wants to re-invent itself as a full service company - from it's humble beginnings as a hardware company. I think they are doing a good job so far - product lines are widening, products are good, more stuff, better access, less bumps. Why do you think they are pursuing this digital life strategy?
I'm sure the hardware will diminish as a overall piece of the pie, simply because Apple wants to increase the size of the pie - and has been very aggressive lately (enterprise products, stores, selling things other than Apple stuff, services, cool software).
No - the iBook is not going away.. it might change, but it is not going away.
The time to worry is when their products come across like the cube (cool, but few sales) - or their products are little different than other company's products (remember "Think Different" is one of their mottos) Luckily, both these points haven't been happening recently and Apple still has great value.
- Wyrm
I've got a MacWorld magazine somewhere from around 1993 speculating that Apple would become a software company. This was shortly after the Kalmedia deal.
I've got a Wired Magazine from 1996 or 97 (can't remember) with the Apple logo on front and 'Pray' underneath (yes, that infamous issue). In that, they were recommending that Apple become a software company for it to be 'saved'.
Pfft. These rumours have existed for a long, long time.
To paraphrase Steve Jobs, the NuApple is really the old Apple all over again... its remembering that its ALSO a software company and being a hardware and software company is what makes Apple so special.
That's never going to change.
OS X maybe running on x86 in Cupertino, but so did OS 7 (and that *is* fact). I don't see no OS 7 x86 machines... do you?
Apple will shift to another processor architecture over the next 20 years. Keeping OS X running on multiple platforms makes this a much easier proposition. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 years Apple diverges its product lines between consumer and professional along processor lines.
But thats a different issue.
To be impolite: Apple is never going to stop being a hardware company. Ever. Get over it.
I've got a Wired Magazine from 1996 or 97 (can't remember) with the Apple logo on front and 'Pray' underneath (yes, that infamous issue). In that, they were recommending that Apple become a software company for it to be 'saved'.
Pfft. These rumours have existed for a long, long time.
To paraphrase Steve Jobs, the NuApple is really the old Apple all over again... its remembering that its ALSO a software company and being a hardware and software company is what makes Apple so special.
That's never going to change.
OS X maybe running on x86 in Cupertino, but so did OS 7 (and that *is* fact). I don't see no OS 7 x86 machines... do you?
Apple will shift to another processor architecture over the next 20 years. Keeping OS X running on multiple platforms makes this a much easier proposition. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5 years Apple diverges its product lines between consumer and professional along processor lines.
But thats a different issue.
To be impolite: Apple is never going to stop being a hardware company. Ever. Get over it.
If Microsoft is to survive, they need to exit the hardware business and focus on their software. I mean really, how much money can be made on keyboards and mice? I was in the computer store the other day and they were selling for under US$10. Microsoft's gear was price significantly higher. No one is going to pay THAT much money for a keyboard.
BTW
BTW
SEGA is a very bad example. They got out of the hardware biz for a few reasons; they couldn't keep up with Sony's update cycle (case of to little to soon), and the software arm of the company was doing very nicely. Sadly, consoles are going to turn into a 3 way triopoly - Sony / EA / Microsoft. Nintendo is going to remain a bit player for no apparent good reason (their game choice now goes beyond rated for all ages). EA and Microsoft have the nasty habit of buying out the competition. $$$$ talks, BS walks
Just another case of market consolidation by corporations.
Just another case of market consolidation by corporations.
OS X running on a non-propriatery machine would be no better than XP. The added stability and reduced conflicts enjoyed by Mac owners because of Apple's "closed" computers would be destroyed.
Lethal
Lethal
From what I understand, Sega got out of the hardware business because they had bet their fortune on Saturn. When they were doing well with Genesis, which was the king of the 2d rendered game market back in the day, they figured they'd go ahead and make a killer 2d rendered game console - Saturn. This backfired when Sony introduced Playstation, which could render 3d games. Saturn panicked and kluged a 3d render unit onto Saturn, but too late...
They didn't fail because they got out of the hardware business. They had to get out of the hardware business so they would have a chance to survive...
I think Nintendo will probably have to stay in the niche market now, handhelds and (mostly) kids games. I don't think it will be easy to get back into the mainstream because kids don't have the same disposal income as 20 somethings, the main users of PS2 and Xbox.
They didn't fail because they got out of the hardware business. They had to get out of the hardware business so they would have a chance to survive...
I think Nintendo will probably have to stay in the niche market now, handhelds and (mostly) kids games. I don't think it will be easy to get back into the mainstream because kids don't have the same disposal income as 20 somethings, the main users of PS2 and Xbox.
From what I understand, Sega got out of the hardware business because they had bet their fortune on Saturn. When they were doing well with Genesis, which was the king of the 2d rendered game market back in the day, they figured they'd go ahead and make a killer 2d rendered game console - Saturn. This backfired when Sony introduced Playstation, which could render 3d games. Saturn panicked and kluged a 3d render unit onto Saturn, but too late...
They didn't fail because they got out of the hardware business. They had to get out of the hardware business so they would have a chance to survive...
I think Nintendo will probably have to stay in the niche market for now, handhelds and (mostly) kids games. I don't think it will be easy to get back into the mainstream because kids don't have the same disposal income as 20 somethings, the main users of PS2 and Xbox.
They didn't fail because they got out of the hardware business. They had to get out of the hardware business so they would have a chance to survive...
I think Nintendo will probably have to stay in the niche market for now, handhelds and (mostly) kids games. I don't think it will be easy to get back into the mainstream because kids don't have the same disposal income as 20 somethings, the main users of PS2 and Xbox.
Integration, baby. That's what Apple is all about. Have been, from day one. Integrated, simple, user-oriented computing.
Probably the biggest reason there is this perception that Apple is becoming a software company is that it's been a while since people got excited talking about a Powermac. Even with the iBooks and PowerBooks, the enthusiasm was always tempered by the sluggish development of the G4. Hopefully this'll change when the 970 is introduced. Soon we hope.
Probably the biggest reason there is this perception that Apple is becoming a software company is that it's been a while since people got excited talking about a Powermac. Even with the iBooks and PowerBooks, the enthusiasm was always tempered by the sluggish development of the G4. Hopefully this'll change when the 970 is introduced. Soon we hope.
They are quiting the iBook? That seems NUTS with all the schools moving to wireless labs!!! If all they have is expensive PowerBooks and PowerMacs, you can forget Macs in the world of education, which is a VERY large business!
exactly... that's why the ibooks aren't going anywhere... unless they are being replaced by something comparable (i.e. really just a big redesign and name change.) There's no way apple is getting out of the consumer laptop business.
Damn, another x86 OS X thread...
Tell me, do you have proof that x86 OS X development is ongoing? It did exist, but it doesn't mean it does exist. Apple had Motorola G5 prototypes too and those never came to life.
Plus look at all the hardware companies that just went software that are now almost belly up.... BEOS, SEGA, ATARI...
It's a stupid idea.
Would it make sence to beef up the software to boost hardware sales? NAH who would do that? ::sarcasm::
Tell me, do you have proof that x86 OS X development is ongoing? It did exist, but it doesn't mean it does exist. Apple had Motorola G5 prototypes too and those never came to life.
Plus look at all the hardware companies that just went software that are now almost belly up.... BEOS, SEGA, ATARI...
It's a stupid idea.
Would it make sence to beef up the software to boost hardware sales? NAH who would do that? ::sarcasm::