I was going to get a ppc just before the intels came out to hold me over for a few years. If this is true I'm definately going to hold on the ppc and wait for the intel duel laptops. this sounds really really good.
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Yonah Virtualization
- Thread starter chicagdan
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Will be used for Front Row, you can bet on that.
What other application can utilize this perfectly other than what is described and what can be done at present, Front Row.
What other application can utilize this perfectly other than what is described and what can be done at present, Front Row.
People are wondering how this fits into Apple plans.
But it may not be in their plans at all. Just because a chip can do something doesn't mean it's something Apple is interested in.
I see running multiple OS's more as a side-benefit that some users may take advantage of with third-party products. Not something Apple will be promoting.
As for other uses beyond running multiple OS's... I still don't grasp the benefits. More info would be welcome
But it may not be in their plans at all. Just because a chip can do something doesn't mean it's something Apple is interested in.
I see running multiple OS's more as a side-benefit that some users may take advantage of with third-party products. Not something Apple will be promoting.
As for other uses beyond running multiple OS's... I still don't grasp the benefits. More info would be welcome
nagromme said:People are wondering how this fits into Apple plans.
But it may not be in their plans at all. Just because a chip can do something doesn't mean it's something Apple is interested in.
I see running multiple OS's more as a side-benefit that some users may take advantage of with third-party products. Not something Apple will be promoting.
As for other uses beyond running multiple OS's... I still don't grasp the benefits. More info would be welcome
At present accessing HD content (if you can actually do so) via Front Row is a PITA. Having multiple apps running in in a Virtual Environment will give instant access to the other applications via switching. Pretty much all the Front Row applications will be buffed to be run instantly at startup.
I'm curious to see if the "tamper-resistant code patent" will work on cutting down on software piracy. perhaps this type of code could be applied to other software.
And if the posts on this topic are a sign of what is to come, it sounds like windows is on its way of becoming nothing but a game console.
And if the posts on this topic are a sign of what is to come, it sounds like windows is on its way of becoming nothing but a game console.
How would Intel virtualization make switching between multiple apps faster than simply pre-loading them into RAM would do?maya said:At present accessing HD content (if you can actually do so) via Front Row is a PITA. Having multiple apps running in in a Virtual Environment will give instant access to the other applications via switching. Pretty much all the Front Row applications will be buffed to be run instantly at startup.
oh man, this means that we can see os 10.5 have not only fast user switching but fast os switching, i could just see jobs at a keynote clicking on the new button next to fast user switching and it flips over to windows or linux apple is so sweet, im buyin more stock.
apple is so sweet, im buyin more stock. 
EricNau said:Putting Windows on an Apple?
Wouldn't that bring all of the Problems of Windows to Apple?
Norton AV. Problem solved.
And if its running in OS X then no.
No thanks, no OS flipping or switching for meDPazdanISU said:oh man, this means that we can see os 10.5 have not only fast user switching but fast os switching, i could just see jobs at a keynote clicking on the new button next to fast user switching and it flips over to windows or linux
I like my Mac and Windows apps to share ONE screen, for easily work across multiple apps--drag and drop included. (Like Virtual PC provides.) Work on a texture in Photoshop for Mac, use it in UnrealEd for Windows. Random example from my own intentions 
I agree. I have zero interests in Windows itself. I need it simply to run certain apps that these developers (AUTODESK!!!) refuse to port to OS X. So, in the best of worlds, Mac's marketshare will grow enough so that developers have no choice but to port their apps to Macs. The iPod was Step 1. The Media Mini will be Step 2. And yes, step 3 will be World Domination, or at least 20% market share.nagromme said:No thanks, no OS flipping or switching for me
Donm said:
I find this a lot more plausible than Steve standing up there promoting how easy it is to use Windows on a Mac. This may be Apple's way of preventing just such a thing. Or maybe they'll use it to keep Mac OS on Macs. I have to belive that if they use it, it'll be an anti-piracy measure. But I could be wrong.
Why would you want to run both? For many people, the answer is simple:
GAMES, GAMES, AND MORE GAMES. Mac enviroment was never what it could have been in the gaming arena. Now, you can use Mac for everything you'd like, and occassionally start playing Far Cry in the background. All in a LAPTOP!
This is sweeeeeeet.
Oded S.
Edit: I personally think that in the traditional Apple style, running Windows applications will be completly transparent to the average user. Meaning, all he'll have to do is click an .exe file, and some sort of OpenGL transition (a hand opening the Mac Desktop in the form of a window? ) will start running that application under the windows platform. No hassles or anything of that sort. They'd also protect accessing the Mac area from the Windows area in a very strict manner, perhaps in the hardware itself (this will all be worthless if it'll allow malicious windows code to tamper with the Mac Os X).
GAMES, GAMES, AND MORE GAMES. Mac enviroment was never what it could have been in the gaming arena. Now, you can use Mac for everything you'd like, and occassionally start playing Far Cry in the background. All in a LAPTOP!
This is sweeeeeeet.
Oded S.
Edit: I personally think that in the traditional Apple style, running Windows applications will be completly transparent to the average user. Meaning, all he'll have to do is click an .exe file, and some sort of OpenGL transition (a hand opening the Mac Desktop in the form of a window?
) will start running that application under the windows platform. No hassles or anything of that sort. They'd also protect accessing the Mac area from the Windows area in a very strict manner, perhaps in the hardware itself (this will all be worthless if it'll allow malicious windows code to tamper with the Mac Os X).
Finally, more meaningful benchmarks. Now we can put 2-3 OSes on the same hardware and see if Photoshop on OS X really beats the pants off Photoshop for Windows.
Donm said:
If they make this processor for PC, i hope they make it so you can't install OSx. I hope VT can't do its job
Ooohh is that the world's smallest violin I hear??vniow said:Of course this one gets on the front page and my post about the same topic over a month ago only got a few replies...
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/161550/
On a more serious note, I am looking forward to the new Intel chips and the potential they will bring as well as Intels ability to keep up with producing the numbers of chips that Apple will require when sales take off to get ride of the perennial problem of demand being greater than chip supply.
Adobe won't have to keep optimising the code in Photoshop for Windows @ the expense of MacintoshAfter G said:
file transfers
if i have 2 os on one computer can i interchange files between them?
for example: i have a pdf in osx can i drag and drop it into wiondows or vice-versa?
if i have 2 os on one computer can i interchange files between them?
for example: i have a pdf in osx can i drag and drop it into wiondows or vice-versa?
Yes, OSes expect to run at "level 0" on the chip (iirc). So if you have 2 OSes competing for level 0, they kill each other. So a virtual OS has to emulate level 0 while it actually runs at a less critical level.Morn said:
Virtualisation adds another level -so all the OSes run at level 0 as they expect, but there is actually a 'core' level now.
I think it'll be great if we can load XP and OSX simultaneously (if XP can load on an Apple, what with EFI etc). It'll be interesting too when people load RedHat linux with their system... run any Linux app integrated with OSX via X11 (instead of 2 separate screens). Hopefully OSX's BSD underpinnings will do that anyway.
A little essay on why I will run Windows but never at the expense of OSX
My Powerbook is showing signs of wanting to be left to a peaceful rest. It's not that it's not loved any more (I remember perfectly well the excitement I fealt when that box arrived on my front doorstep), but it is old. I have upgraded the RAM a few times as well as the hard drive, but the 1GHz G4 is just too slow for what I need.
I am an avid amateur photographer and want Aperture and my little 17" is just not up to the job. I want to use iPhoto and for it not to take 15 seconds to finalise every minor edit. I want iPohot to load in under a minute.
But more than all that, I want to be able to run windows. Honestly! I hate the Windows OS with a passion not rivaled by many zelots, but none the less it is the core on which many great non-OSX apps run.
The truth is that whenever I tell an MS user that I want to run Windows they laugh as though I have made some confession about the superiority of the product. It has nothing to do with that. In the same way that people now rarely buy an MP3 player that is not an iPod because all the accessories are generally made for it, the same is true of Windows. Now there is an obvious difference here: the iPod is clearly the superior product. It doesn't have all the features of some iRivers or Creative MP3 players but what it does it does far better than any of them.
As long as Apple continue to produce the quality of product that they do now and have done for some time (with a glitch in the middle and the G4 should have been retired some time back), I will continue to buy their products. I am not going to buy another G4 Powerbook because it is not worth the money, nor is it a huge step up from my 3 year old day-of-launch 17".
Anyway, back to Windows! I am willing to sacrifice some of the many benefits that come with Windows because they do not come close to totalling those that come with the Apple. But Yonah represents the chance for me to not have to give up anything and because of that I find it hard not to be extremely excited.
My Powerbook is showing signs of wanting to be left to a peaceful rest. It's not that it's not loved any more (I remember perfectly well the excitement I fealt when that box arrived on my front doorstep), but it is old. I have upgraded the RAM a few times as well as the hard drive, but the 1GHz G4 is just too slow for what I need.
I am an avid amateur photographer and want Aperture and my little 17" is just not up to the job. I want to use iPhoto and for it not to take 15 seconds to finalise every minor edit. I want iPohot to load in under a minute.
But more than all that, I want to be able to run windows. Honestly! I hate the Windows OS with a passion not rivaled by many zelots, but none the less it is the core on which many great non-OSX apps run.
The truth is that whenever I tell an MS user that I want to run Windows they laugh as though I have made some confession about the superiority of the product. It has nothing to do with that. In the same way that people now rarely buy an MP3 player that is not an iPod because all the accessories are generally made for it, the same is true of Windows. Now there is an obvious difference here: the iPod is clearly the superior product. It doesn't have all the features of some iRivers or Creative MP3 players but what it does it does far better than any of them.
As long as Apple continue to produce the quality of product that they do now and have done for some time (with a glitch in the middle and the G4 should have been retired some time back), I will continue to buy their products. I am not going to buy another G4 Powerbook because it is not worth the money, nor is it a huge step up from my 3 year old day-of-launch 17".
Anyway, back to Windows! I am willing to sacrifice some of the many benefits that come with Windows because they do not come close to totalling those that come with the Apple. But Yonah represents the chance for me to not have to give up anything and because of that I find it hard not to be extremely excited.
GregA said:
Just curious, where will be the keyboard handler responsible for "switching" OS reside?
It can't possibly reside in the current OS since you can't trust the OS to such a privilledged instruction, nor will be it in the BIOS cause what will happen if the OS uses the same keystroke?
Not just the keyboard of course - the OS no longer has ultimate control of the graphics card, sound card, mouse, etc.generik said:
And remember it's not "switching" OS - as both run simultaneously. It's just a matter of which one you are interacting with.
Iirc Apple's patent was talking about a "primary" OS and "secondary" OS - so perhaps a primary OS takes greater control, and the secondary OS doesn't need to know about it?
Or perhaps the OS in the EFI can act as a primary OS in some way?
I think having a mac with Osx and Windows would be cool. The only problem I see with that, though, is XP's boot process will stop and hang if it detects a mac-formatted disk. That's what happens on my PC anyway. I have MacDrive loaded on there because my external drive is mac formatted. If I boot the PC then plug in the drive, all works beautifully. But if the drive is plugged in during boot-up its a no-go....
sluthy said:
VT is a new processor technology to enhance virtualisation systems such as VMWare and XEN.
It will allow XEN to run windows, whereas, up till now, only Linux could be used since minor modifications were required to allow Windows to run which could not be legally made.