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Smith288

macrumors 65816
Feb 26, 2008
1,226
967
I use HAP-NodeJS for all my non standard stuff. Hooked up a raspberry pi to my garage door as well as serves as virtual motion detection devices that my IP cameras can hook when it detects motion giving me a screen shot and alert there was movement. Problem is that response time is slower than I'd like but for a hobby, I like it.
 

- rob -

macrumors 65816
Apr 18, 2012
1,011
684
Oakland, CA
Homekit is buggy, is a pain to set up and still lacks great products with good documentation. I'm surprised Apple is putting this in the stores.
 

Bromeo

macrumors regular
Mar 6, 2015
224
132
Near Seattle
HomeKit actually has a lot of promise to unite the various protocols and manufactures while making home automation far more accessible to homeowners and apartment dwellers. Automation meaning your home anticipates your routines and needs, not just using Siri to raise the blinds.

What I'd like to see happen is for HomeKit to go open source and independent. It would lift all boats. Right now there are too many HA players selling poorly secured IoT devices that don't readily talk outside their own ecosystem.

HomeKit is conspicuously absent on Android and even macOS. It needs to be universal.
 

JNGold

macrumors 6502a
Aug 25, 2009
889
73
Why are you not using your Apple TV for all your entertainment?

Logitech are too busy working with Alexa and Google Home to worry about HomeKit

Because I am not a cord cutter and prefer to have my cable service. Personally, I own 2 ATV's for both TV's in my house and at this time I don't think the ATV interface, even with the updated "Watch Now" UI, is conducive to how my wife and I watch TV content.

I agree that Logitech is too busy with other solutions (one of which I already own), but I do think it may something to do with Apple's stringent requirements on HK providers and compliance with the HK standards that is a barrier for many providers.
 

travelsheep

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2013
918
1,057
finally we can rent a tiny little s***hole for less and make it feel like a $10000 home in the hills :apple::D
 

gsmornot

macrumors 68040
Sep 29, 2014
3,592
3,700
I've been trying to find out more about HK stuff for a while now, online and at Apple stores. The main thing I'm trying to determine is if the number of HK devices will be limited by the number of wifi devices my router can support (32, already using over 20). Does the TV as a hub take care of this issue? I've been told that HK devices use Bluetooth, and also that they use wifi.
Homekit and WiFi or Homekit and Bluetooth are not one in the same. Homekit is the Apple application that uses a certified device process so you can manage the devices within your integrated application. WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, ZWave and the list goes on are communication methods used by the device makers for talking to the devices. That said...

If your AP has a device limit and the device brand you select uses WiFi you will have a limit. If the device uses Bluetooth, the AppleTV will talk to it directly. If the device uses another communication platform it will generally go along with a hub like Philips Hue and Lutron. Both of these brands have a hub you connect to your network which then talks to that brand of device. In most cases the hubs have a device limit of 50. You can be crafty to find ways around that but it can become a pain. The hub itself is the point where Homekit talks to the devices. You will see a status of each device on your screen but it goes through the hub.

If you want to automate and why not, its the main feature, you will need an iPad that stays home or an AppleTV 4. This will automate and provide access when away from your WiFi network. Most brands have a connect method too but its nice to see everything on one screen. I think this covers your few questions.
 
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- rob -

macrumors 65816
Apr 18, 2012
1,011
684
Oakland, CA
finally we can rent a tiny little s***hole for less and make it feel like a $10000 home in the hills :apple::D
I think this is actually a bigger deal than people realize. Older homes with really bad lighting setups can leapfrog ahead with Homekit. It is like the jump from needing CAT5 run throughout a house to Wifi.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2009
3,108
4,033
Chicago
That's great. But give me a call when there's a HK solution like Harmony Hub which I can use my Echo to control my TV and entertainment center. I can use either Echo or Siri to control my Hue lights but it's the TV control that I really come to enjoy using. I guess Logitech needs to get their butt in gear and get on board with HK!

What exactly are you looking to accomplish? The Harmony Elite, while not itself a HomeKit device, works just fine with many devices that are. It has buttons for lights and connected outlets, and those work with Hue and many other smart systems. They can also be incorporated into Harmony activities, so it fits quite well in a HomeKit environment.
 

JNGold

macrumors 6502a
Aug 25, 2009
889
73
What exactly are you looking to accomplish? The Harmony Elite, while not itself a HomeKit device, works just fine with many devices that are. It has buttons for lights and connected outlets, and those work with Hue and many other smart systems. They can also be incorporated into Harmony activities, so it fits quite well in a HomeKit environment.

I can't ask Siri to provide commands directly to my Harmony Hub which sends customized IR commands to my TV, Cable box, etc. Echo provides that integration and capability. I can issue a voice command to "Turn on TV", which will turn on the TV, Cable, audio source, etc. I can issue a command to "turn on <channel name>", or "Increase/Decrease volume". In essence, I don't have to reach for a remote and rarely do anymore. If the Harmony Hub was HK compatible, I could ditch the Echo dot I have in my den for an Apple HomePod.
 
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JungeQuex

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2014
186
457
I've been on the edge of getting HomeKit enabled stuff but it is fairly pricey compared to other brands. It's always the question of "did we lock the door? Did we turn to A/C off?" And then we have to go check once we're in bed.

So for now I take the non-lazy route and forgo the HomeKit stuff, and walk downstairs to check. It would, however, be very nice to be able to check when we are gone for an extended time.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2009
3,108
4,033
Chicago
I can't ask Siri to provide commands directly to my Harmony Hub which sends customized IR commands to my TV, Cable box, etc. Echo provides that integration and capability. I can issue a voice command to "Turn on TV", which will turn on the TV, Cable, audio source, etc. I can issue a command to "turn on <channel name>", or "Increase/Decrease volume". In essence, I don't have to reach for a remote and rarely do anymore. If the Harmony Hub was HK compatible, I could ditch the Echo dot I have in my den for an Apple HomePod.

Ah, that makes sense and it does seem like those features should be available. I also think Apple misunderstood what people find so compelling about the Echo devices. We don't like them because of the speaker quality (mostly), we like them because we can put one in every room and it does what we expect it to.
 
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F1Turbo

macrumors newbie
Oct 12, 2010
17
9
Homekit and WiFi or Homekit and Bluetooth are not one in the same. Homekit is the Apple application that uses a certified device process so you can manage the devices within your integrated application. WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, ZWave and the list goes on are communication methods used by the device makers for talking to the devices. That said...

If your AP has a device limit and the device brand you select uses WiFi you will have a limit. If the device uses Bluetooth, the AppleTV will talk to it directly. If the device uses another communication platform it will generally go along with a hub like Philips Hue and Lutron. Both of these brands have a hub you connect to your network which then talks to that brand of device. In most cases the hubs have a device limit of 50. You can be crafty to find ways around that but it can become a pain. The hub itself is the point where Homekit talks to the devices. You will see a status of each device on your screen but it goes through the hub.

If you want to automate and why not, its the main feature, you will need an iPad that stays home or an AppleTV 4. This will automate and provide access when away from your WiFi network. Most brands have a connect method too but its nice to see everything on one screen. I think this covers your few questions.

Thanks for the excellent explanation!
 

CarlJ

macrumors 604
Feb 23, 2004
6,972
12,136
San Diego, CA, USA
The real surprise is, those aren't "virtual rooms" on the screen. They're streaming live video to the Apple Stores from thousands of furnished model-home-style living rooms and bedrooms set up on one of the spare floors of the new spaceship campus.
 
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PBRsg

macrumors 6502
Aug 12, 2014
347
592
Just you indeed. Putting real fans in the store would be stupid. A virtual room is intended to show how HK works conceptually, and that’s exactly what it does.

Exactly. It would be inappropriate and completely at odds with Apple's carefully designed store aesthetics.
 
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CarlJ

macrumors 604
Feb 23, 2004
6,972
12,136
San Diego, CA, USA
The problem with buying this HomeKit stuff is if it has to be fitted, for someone like me who is useless at DIY it's a bit off putting.
A lot of it is pretty close to plug & play. I have nine lights being controlled, and after taking in the pros and cons, it was mostly a matter plugging in the Hue "Bridge" (an intermediary between Hue bulbs and HomeKit), unscrewing some normal light bulbs and screwing in the Hue light bulbs and telling Apple's Home app that they were there, and giving them names and such. Now I can push the Siri button on my Apple TV remote (or use Siri on my iPhone) and say "turn off the hallway light", or "set scene 'tv time'", and it Just Works.

A big point to note is, if you put smart light bulbs into fixtures controlled by hard-wired wall switches, and then turn off that wall switch... the lights are no longer smart - Siri can't will them to come on when you've deprived them of electricity. This may sound obvious, but I've watched numerous people complain bitterly about Hue lights because they decided they were going to use their existing wall switches anyway, and they were angry that the universe didn't change the laws of physics to accommodate them ("after all, I paid a lot of money for these light bulbs, so they should work the way I want").

You can get replacement in-wall smart switches from several companies (Lutron, iDevices, etc.), which are HomeKit compatible (and you can get licensed electricians to come install them, too, if you want), or you can just put smart light bulbs into lamps where you've arranged to have the socket power always on. In my case, the wall switch by the front door somewhat inconveniently controls the porch light and the ceiling fan, so sticking a Hue Dimmer Switch on the wall next to the existing switchplate was a huge improvement. Now when I walk in the front door, I push one button and 4 lights around the room come on (if I tap "On" several more times, it cycles through five different lighting scenes of my choosing).

Having lights that can produce most any color sounds like mostly a party trick (I do have a scene called "rainbow" that sets every light to a different color, just for fun), but to me the huge win is being able to set any color temperature of "white" light (as well as arbitrarily dimming any or all of the lights). Stark bluish-tinged "cool white" or "daylight white" when you want a ton of light, or much more yellow-tinged "warm white" for a more inviting and relaxed room. I commonly use the warmer tones in the evening, and it's a lot like Apple's Night Shift, but for the whole room. This is a tiny bit life-changing.

FWIW, I wanted better control of my porch light, with only the standard light bulb socket that equips most porches. I ended up getting an iDevices Socket, and one of those little bulb-socket-to-2-prong-plug adapters, and a string of dimming-compatible outdoor LED rope lights. I ran the rope lights around the edge of the porch roof and put the other bits into a little weatherproof box fit over the existing porch light assembly (I'm sure iDevices wouldn't recommend this for outdoor use, but I think things are fairly well covered, literally and figuratively). I set up some rules in Apple's Home app to turn on the porch light at sunset, and then to dim it down every hour or so, until it's just a dim keyhole-finding glow for the last half of the night. Then it turns it off at sunrise. Now my porch light Just Works, and I don't have to worry about it ever. As far as DIY goes, I worked out the waterproof box, but I didn't do any electrician-type work for this or any other part of my smart lighting - just plugging/screwing things in.
 
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ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,597
1,730
Redondo Beach, California
This will never take off until there is standardization in the industry. A typical building might have a 50 to 100 year lifetime. If I install 300 light switches in a small apartment building I'd expect that there will be replacement switches available even 20 year down the road. No one in their right and thinks Apple will be offering Home Kit parts 20 years from now so it would ne nuts to install these routinely.

However if there were an industry standard for smart switches I could and likely would buy 300 of them and put them in a new building knowing that 20 or 30 years later anyone could go to Home Depot and buy a box of switches

The current HomeKit products are for rich hobbyists who know that these have a very limited lifetime. They will not work for even 10 years as Apple have never supported anything that long. Someday there will be a world-wide industry standard and it will not be Apple
 

Applefanhater

macrumors member
Apr 24, 2014
43
4
Wonder if it will showcase the devices I have and how they keep falling off homekit's radar or automations that don't work...
 

Gregglesmi

macrumors newbie
Jul 31, 2017
1
0
If your Apple Store has a traditional "Genius Bar" then it is NOT an "Avenues" store design, and will not have the interactive display. Avenues stores are much wood and glass based, where non-avenues stores will feature a Genius Bar and likely a more brushed metal decor.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
The current HomeKit products are for rich hobbyists who know that these have a very limited lifetime. They will not work for even 10 years as Apple have never supported anything that long. Someday there will be a world-wide industry standard and it will not be Apple
HomeKit is agnostic. It can control (via a bridge) devices made by other companies that speak other protocols.

None of my light switches are HomeKit. They’re made by Insteon and use Insteon’s wire line (and RF) protocols to communicate. They work perfectly fine with HomeKit (via Insteon’s HomeKit bridge).

If I were starting this today, I’d use z-wave switches that I can pick up and Home Depot or Lowe’s.

Apple is not locking anyone in with HomeKit.
 
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