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Your experience with Apple delivered SSD in MBPs

E

expost

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 13, 2010
19
0
Finally I give in. Spent the best of the last two days researching the interwebs for real data on apple-delivered SSDs. I found a lot of people posting reviews on other-brand SSDs in their MBPs, but very little with apple supplied SSDs (http://kaylan.org/?p=213).
Especially interesting is performance data after severe use, as the degradation SEEMS to be major for Macs where no trim is available.

OWC just tries to upsell their drive. Intel seems to be ok, but to small for me. Apple seems to have a decent SSD manufacturer by now (Toshiba), one review can be found here: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1230/1/

It is all well in this review, BUT nothing is said about degradation IF the OS does not support TRIM (From the review: The Toshiba HG2 series of SSDs appears to do very well when it comes to performance degradation thanks to their proprietary wear leveling algorithm and of course the Windows 7 TRIM command.)

Any real world experiences here, ideally from someone already having a Toshiba brand in a recent MBP? It's not the raw, headline speed I am after, I am looking for a robust, worry free operation without having to 'recondition' the drive any six months or something.
 
expost said:
Finally I give in. Spent the best of the last two days researching the interwebs for real data on apple-delivered SSDs. I found a lot of people posting reviews on other-brand SSDs in their MBPs, but very little with apple supplied SSDs (http://kaylan.org/?p=213).
Especially interesting is performance data after severe use, as the degradation SEEMS to be major for Macs where no trim is available.

OWC just tries to upsell their drive. Intel seems to be ok, but to small for me. Apple seems to have a decent SSD manufacturer by now (Toshiba), one review can be found here: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1230/1/

It is all well in this review, BUT nothing is said about degradation IF the OS does not support TRIM (From the review: The Toshiba HG2 series of SSDs appears to do very well when it comes to performance degradation thanks to their proprietary wear leveling algorithm and of course the Windows 7 TRIM command.)

Any real world experiences here, ideally from someone already having a Toshiba brand in a recent MBP? It's not the raw, headline speed I am after, I am looking for a robust, worry free operation without having to 'recondition' the drive any six months or something.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as this guy, I really hope someone can do some test with their new apple SSD and post some results.

1. Benchmark the SSD speed when brand new
2. Fill the entire drive up with data a couple times then run the same test again.
 
I got the Apple SSD in my new 17" MBP, and I'm aware of the TRIM issues, etc. But I'm using about 40% of my memory capacity, so I have a long way to go before I ever fill up this computer even once. I might not have to worry too much about degradation issues. And I'm pleased that Apple is using Toshiba drives instead of the old Samsung ones.

That said, I'm amazed at the performance difference SSD makes. It's startling to see iTunes pop up immediately without an extra bounce. To see memory hogs such as OpenOffice just start up without fuss.

You know how fast my computer restarts? From the moment I click Restart, 7 seconds later I hear the startup bong, and 15 seconds later my computer is ready to go. That's right 22 seconds from start to finish.

It's also made my machine silent. It never makes a noise.

It's also made my machine run cooler. I have yet to hear a fan even when running video on battery power. I have yet to feel the bottom of the laptop running hot.

So decide what you want about SSD from various manufacturers. I know that I'm extremely happy with my Apple delivered Toshiba SSDs. It's made a significant difference in the enjoyment of my machine. And it's completely covered under warranty.
 
Before I thought I was 100% for sure going with the Intel G2 drive, but that is a 450$ upgrade that voids the warranty. The Apple upgrade path cost 180$ with a student discount. I think I'm leaning twords the apple upgrade path, I have yet to hear someone say something bad about there apple upgrade path. But, I guess going from HDD to SSD no matter who made the SSD, it is a major upgrade. I think this is why we need someone to compare side by side Intel's drives and Toshiba's under OS X NEW and USED.
 
NebulaClash said:
It's also made my machine silent. It never makes a noise.

It's also made my machine run cooler. I have yet to hear a fan even when running video on battery power. I have yet to feel the bottom of the laptop running hot.

So decide what you want about SSD from various manufacturers. I know that I'm extremely happy with my Apple delivered Toshiba SSDs. It's made a significant difference in the enjoyment of my machine. And it's completely covered under warranty.
Click to expand...

Helpful post Neb. Temperature and noise are the two worst componenets of "laptop" ownership. I'm torn on 15 vs. 17. Is the 17 comfortable in your lap or do you use it only on desks? The extra footprint is worrying me, but I'm now sold on the Toshiba SSD covered by Apple warranty. I also am going high-res and anti-glare. Opinion?
 
My first gen Macbook Air has a Samsung SSD (64GB)

when did apple switch to Toshiba? I was kinda hoping for the Samsung in my MBP that I just ordered.
 
You might want to get an HDD from Apple and get a 3rd party SSD. Trust me, those 3rd Party SSDs from OCZ, Corsair, Intel, and Kingston are much better than the Toshiba or Samsung SSDs.
 
It is widely believed that at least some of the SSDs Apple is supplying in the new MacBook Pros are Toshiba HG2 SSDs. Another topic on the same subject has had a link to a test of a Toshiba HG2 for a week now:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1230/1/

Bottom line (from that test): It's not a particularly fast SSD (as SSDs go) but it didn't seem to suffer from speed degradation as tested on a PC.

Apple's SSD prices are actually reasonable in my opinion. I feel they are a good choice for folks that want to upgrade from a platter hard drive, but don't wish to source your own SSD and deal with installing it.

Mark
 
Jon03021 said:
Before I thought I was 100% for sure going with the Intel G2 drive, but that is a 450$ upgrade that voids the warranty. The Apple upgrade path cost 180$ with a student discount. I think I'm leaning twords the apple upgrade path, I have yet to hear someone say something bad about there apple upgrade path. But, I guess going from HDD to SSD no matter who made the SSD, it is a major upgrade. I think this is why we need someone to compare side by side Intel's drives and Toshiba's under OS X NEW and USED.
Click to expand...

HD upgrade won't get rid of the warranty.
 
kellen said:
HD upgrade won't get rid of the warranty.
Click to expand...

Exactly! On the unibody MacBook Pros, the hard drive is considered to be a user replaceable item. Instructions for replacing it are included in the manual.

That said, if you DO have a warranty issue with your MacBook Pro, be prepared for Apple to require you to put back the original drive when you submit the MacBook Pro for repair. So, you might wish to hang onto the original drive and put it in a safe place. Apple can't be expected to provide warranty on a 3rd party drive you install.

After I installed an SSD drive in my new MacBook Pro, I put the Apple-supplied 500GB Hitachi drive into an external Firewire 800 enclosure. I then used SuperDuper to make a disk image of the original factory drive. I have stored and backed up that disk image on another Mac. Then I formatted the 500GB external drive and used SuperDuper to make a clone of the SSD install. The 500GB became my backup external drive for my MacBook Pro. But if I ever need to put the 500GB drive back in the MacBook Pro for warranty repair, I can clone the original factory install disk image back to the 500GB drive, stick it back in the MacBook Pro, and I'll have the same basic setup I started with when I purchased the MacBook Pro. No extra utilities or 3rd party software installed and no excessive personal information. Perfect for turing over to Apple for a warranty repair.

Mark
 
I like your idea! And I would probably want to get an external HDD anyway. What made you decide on the OCS Vertex SSD? Did figure that was the best value? If you could do it all over again, what SSD would you buy?

barefeats recommends the OWC Mercury Extreme Enterprise but for $730 for 200GB feels expensive to me. The Crucial C300 for $770 for 256GB is also a bit high. But if they're worth it (no degrading, fastest, etc.) I'd bite the bullet. X25-M G2 for $500 for 160GB??



Mark Booth said:
Exactly! On the unibody MacBook Pros, the hard drive is considered to be a user replaceable item. Instructions for replacing it are included in the manual.

That said, if you DO have a warranty issue with your MacBook Pro, be prepared for Apple to require you to put back the original drive when you submit the MacBook Pro for repair. So, you might wish to hang onto the original drive and put it in a safe place. Apple can't be expected to provide warranty on a 3rd party drive you install.

After I installed an SSD drive in my new MacBook Pro, I put the Apple-supplied 500GB Hitachi drive into an external Firewire 800 enclosure. I then used SuperDuper to make a disk image of the original factory drive. I have stored and backed up that disk image on another Mac. Then I formatted the 500GB external drive and used SuperDuper to make a clone of the SSD install. The 500GB became my backup external drive for my MacBook Pro. But if I ever need to put the 500GB drive back in the MacBook Pro for warranty repair, I can clone the original factory install disk image back to the 500GB drive, stick it back in the MacBook Pro, and I'll have the same basic setup I started with when I purchased the MacBook Pro. No extra utilities or 3rd party software installed and no excessive personal information. Perfect for turing over to Apple for a warranty repair.

Mark
Click to expand...
 
Hanisee said:
Helpful post Neb. Temperature and noise are the two worst componenets of "laptop" ownership. I'm torn on 15 vs. 17. Is the 17 comfortable in your lap or do you use it only on desks? The extra footprint is worrying me, but I'm now sold on the Toshiba SSD covered by Apple warranty. I also am going high-res and anti-glare. Opinion?
Click to expand...

I have not noticed it being too big on my lap, and no, it's never on a desk as this is my personal machine. But the best thing to do, if you can, is go into a store and try them both to see if the 17 is too big to be comfortable for you. If you want t travel with it, the 15 is certainly more portable.

But man, it sure is cool to see so much screen space. This is a laptop without compromise, with the SSD and the big screen and the i7 chip.
 
Mark Booth said:
It's not a particularly fast SSD (as SSDs go) but it didn't seem to suffer from speed degradation as tested on a PC.
Click to expand...

Again, where excatly did you get this info from. The review says:

The Toshiba HG2 series of SSDs appears to do very well when it comes to performance degradation thanks to their proprietary wear leveling algorithm and of course the Windows 7 TRIM command.

As long as you dont format your drive NTFS and run Win7 on it, this information does not refer to Mac OS X at all! So nothing said about degradation, or is it?

<ForumNazi> PLEASE, gentlemen, keep this thread to hands-on experience of people who already own an Apple-SSD, so that we can get an idea of the ACTUAL degradation, Thanks!</ForumNazi>
 
Btw, the only current review of degradation in a i5 MBP with Apple supplied SSD I know of has been posted by Ali here:

http://kaylan.org/?p=213

He is so kind to publish his xbench results every few days to track degradation. Blog post is definitively worth a look! I wonder if anyone here as insider knowledge about why exactly the apple-supplied ssds (ass ;-) ) have a non-standard firmware. This would be GREAT to know... :apple:
 
Tom's HW has tested the 256GB drive, including degradation, though this does not include the Apple firmware (their comments suggest some horribly slow IO issues they had with the drive may be solved by updated firmware, so Apple may already have addressed it and/or otherwise optimized the drive for OS X use).

My experience of using the 512GB drive (I note that some posters here on the forum got somewhat different numbers testing the 512GB than others benching the 256GB unit) has been that it flies.

I'm not comparing it to other SSDs but just to platter drives I've used, so if you're looking for the highest end performance even among SSDs, I can't speak to that and testing indicates it is not the fastest choice (though if you want Apple TRIM support later, this may be the only game in town). But as far as comparing to other PCs and Macs if you don't want to install your own drive, the Apple 512GB SSD is a great, albeit overpriced, upgrade. My Core i7 17" feels much faster than my 27" iMac i7 with the 7200rpm drive did, even lacking two processor cores and having half the RAM.
 
JimAtLaw said:
including degradation, though this does not include the Apple firmware
Click to expand...

Thanks for the review, where exactly did you see the degradation? Is it in this line: 'Write performance may drop to 108 MB/s'? Or somewhere else?

JimAtLaw said:
My experience of using the 512GB drive (I note that some posters here on the forum got somewhat different numbers testing the 512GB than others benching the 256GB unit) has been that it flies.
Click to expand...

How long do you have the 512-SSD? We all totally agree that blank, new SSDs fly like hell, but some of the really drop down to the levels of better platter drives ("Times as slow as 2MB/sec were observed." source: http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SSD-Reconditioning.html) once every NAND cell has been written at least once.

And then I am not keen on paying $$$ for a better platter.

Did you fill your drive already at least once or are you - presumably - below that? Any way to see the xbench?
 
I believe i was the one who first posted the legitreview link, there is no performance data when it is hooked to mac os, instead of windows.

With those new toshiba ssd, if you are a casual user where ease of use is the goal, then it doesnt matter. The performance gain over hdd is still significant, and having it preinstalled so you can just turn it on and go may outweigh the rest.

But if you are a power/technical user, i highly suggest you upgrade to the intel x-25m g2. It is still much superior to the apple toshiba ssd, and is proven to work (performance wise) long term under mac os x as evident by the thousands of posts here.

Now the price difference seems to favor the apple ssd, but that's a lie. Apple 128gb cost $180 to upgrade, intel x-25m 160gb cost $450. BUT factor in cost premium ordering from apple.com 1) $150-200 tax 2) no discount The prices becomes similar. Not to mention the long delay of bto orders vs ordering from say macmall/amazon and have it shipped immediately. Also you get a much better and slightly larger ssd.
 
gagaliya said:
Iis proven to work (performance wise) long term under mac os x as evident by the thousands of posts here.
Click to expand...

OT, but I couldn't resist. I share your sentiment, it's either the new sandforce (if it shows it is reliable in MBPs like the OCZ Agility 2), the Intel Postville or the integrated presumably Toshiba SSD.

My problem here is that 160 G is to small for my use-case; so I would need some kind of ugly optibay-solution or have to stick with a 200 GB Sandforce (if reliable) or the Apple SSD.

My feeling here is, most people shopping around here for SSD-info are note looking for the last bit of headline-grabbing sequential read metrics, but for a robust all-around reliable solution. Toshiba is good enough for me, IF THIS FU#?%&'ING degradation problem has been (mostly) solved by either Toshiba or Apple.

But now back to hard earned experience from apple-ssd owners... ;)
 
You guys are still missing one very important point. That is that if you buy the Apple supplied SSD it can ALSO be covered by the Apple legendary 3 year warranty along with the rest of the machine.

How many 3rd party drives can you get a 3 year warranty on? Not to mention it's yet more cost.
I understand that 3rd party drives are faster, but they work out much more expensive, especially the 512GB size.
 
power_requirement_streaming.png

power_streaming_read_performance-per-watt.png


Maybe this is why Apple went with Toshiba, they chose battery life over efficiency.
 
NebulaClash said:
I got the Apple SSD in my new 17" MBP, and I'm aware of the TRIM issues, etc. But I'm using about 40% of my memory capacity, so I have a long way to go before I ever fill up this computer even once. I might not have to worry too much about degradation issues. And I'm pleased that Apple is using Toshiba drives instead of the old Samsung ones.

That said, I'm amazed at the performance difference SSD makes. It's startling to see iTunes pop up immediately without an extra bounce. To see memory hogs such as OpenOffice just start up without fuss.

You know how fast my computer restarts? From the moment I click Restart, 7 seconds later I hear the startup bong, and 15 seconds later my computer is ready to go. That's right 22 seconds from start to finish.

It's also made my machine silent. It never makes a noise.

It's also made my machine run cooler. I have yet to hear a fan even when running video on battery power. I have yet to feel the bottom of the laptop running hot.

So decide what you want about SSD from various manufacturers. I know that I'm extremely happy with my Apple delivered Toshiba SSDs. It's made a significant difference in the enjoyment of my machine. And it's completely covered under warranty.
Click to expand...

I reckon Apple SSD is the best choice for those who don't want to change the hard disk their self and cause another problem

Enjoy you new Mac :D
 
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