Your next purchase?

[HobeSoundDarryl]

There's actually hope for a "pimped" Mini: more rumors imply a PRO & MAX Mini than only the M2 version. And those rumors mostly point to MAR-APR instead of next Fall (actually this Mini was rumored pretty hard to also roll out with the new MBpros a few months ago... implying that it already exists and maybe awaits a time when demand vs. supply works).

I much favor that rumor and hope it is true. I suspect Mac Pro Jr. will be priced insanely high (beyond any reasonable rationalizations unless (most) buyers are getting to spend someone else's (corporate) money), the long-rumored X-mac will remain an ongoing, unfed want and so Mini becomes best hope for a powerful, screen-less Mac. If it does not show, I probably try to keep stretching old Macs until something rolls out that better appeals.

The competing rumor is that iMac "bigger" may get the so-called MAX DUO (2 MAX chips linked together). If so, that would be "double the power" spin in what can often seem to be the "better value" purchase. It's not hard to imagine iMac "bigger" with MAX DUO and Mini with M1MAX reveals. Personally, I'd still favor this Mini over even that DUO iMac because I don't want to buy a screen that could be used for 10 years but will probably need to be retired much sooner than that when "shock & awe" M-next becomes "long in tooth" over just a few years... exactly as it works with A-next power in iPhones to drive people to buy new iPhones sooner than seemingly necessary.

I suspect M-series Macs are going this way... that underpinning the Silicon transition is an objective to get many of us turning over Macs faster than we have historically, more like how we turn over iDevices. Even a little push of that accelerator adds a lot of Mac profit for Apple.

As to Mac Pro Jr., the DUO rumor seems pretty believable and there are further rumors of QUAD (4 MAX's). If we see DUO in iMac "bigger", Mac Pro Jr. could differentiate from Mac Mini MAX by also having DUO options... or possibly QUAD. If you think of Mac Mini MAX priced up into the range of a screen-less, keyboard-less MBpro MAX, then Mac Pro Jr DUO might be rationalized at towards double that price and QUAD at potentially about 3X-4X that price. Conceptually, Mac Pro Jr. will come with some other features & benefits beyond just 2X or 4X MAX's too to further differentiate (and further push up the pricing).

So I wouldn't envision Mac Mini MAX as being a big threat to Mac Pro Jr unless MAX is MAX and DUO or QUAD are out of reach and extra Mac Pro features & benefits are also deprecated. Even if MAX is MAX, Mac Mini M1 MAX could roll in the spring and maybe Mac Pro Jr with M2 MAX rolls in Fall/Winter.

Personally though, I believe the DUO rumor is pretty likely. I also don't think over a "2 year transition", all Macs can continue to ride generation 1 of M1. So M2 seems like it must roll out and if it does, it's logical a M2 PRO & MAX version launches with it or soon follows.

 

[CWallace]

Did you notice much difference between the 2017 and 2020? I have a 2017 and trying to figure out if I should upgrade or not.

In day-to-day use, not so much as both macOS and Windows are productivity for me (I have a dedicated Windows gaming PC).

I primarily did it because I really need Windows for my job (I WFH) and the Intel iMac 5K is the most-convenient way to operate a dual Windows / macOS environment for me. And since the 2020 is the last Intel iMac model Apple will release, I wanted something I knew I could get support on for the next few years.

 

[Jim Higgins]

I wanted this as a general discussion, but here goes.

Browsing through threads here you might think people are buying new Apple products practically every year, but thats not likely. So I thought we could share what we might be planning to buy next.


I currently have a mid 2011 21.5 iMac with upgraded hardware. It runs really well, but nonetheless within the next year or so I intend to finally replace it most likely with a new 24in. iMac. I am waiting to see what the new 27in. iMac will be like, but I suspect it will be priced a bit more for my liking than an optioned out 24. So I am more interested in seeing the M2 iMac 24 and what other (if any) tweaks they might make.

I currently have an iPad Pro 10.5 that I am thinking of replacing, either wth a new iPad Air or a 9th or 10th GEN iPad.

I have my old iPhone 4 that I use as a glorified iPod Touch (it replaced my loved ten year old iPod Nano when it finally died). But it can be a bit slow so I’m thinking of replacing it with a new iPod Touch in the very near future.

My current iPhone 8+ I have no intention of replacing anytime soon given it works really well and I am very happy with it.

FWIW Here is my intended next purchase of a desktop:
Current desktop: Late 2013 21.5" iMac running Catalina 10.15.7, 8GB DDR 3 1600 RAM, 1TB Fusion HDD
Proposed Desktop purchase: 24" Silver M-1 iMac, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, another MS Office Home/Student license, yearly Apple Care+, assorted adapters and cables from Apple.

Proposed mainly because Turbo Tax told me that the 2021TT is the last to run on Catalina, 2022 MUST be upgraded. So I decided to go full bore Apple. I also have 3 iPad Minis from the 2 to the 5.

 

[pshufd]

This is why I - having initially got overwhelmed by the street parties which followed the launch of the Pro and Max MBPs - smelled the coffee and decided a much wiser bet for me would be a Mini, so I don't have all my eggs in one basket. An Air for portability, and a pimped MacMini for my home studio is probably where I want to be. But they are not allowing me to pimp my Mini. It's insane that I can't spec one to include chips they already build into their MBPs. I know my complaining about it won't make it happen any sooner, but come on.

I can't help feel their reluctance to give us a Pro or Max Mini is because they know it would haemorrhage sales from their Mac Pro line.

I suspect that they are supply constrained on the M1 MAX models given the delivery times right now and I wonder what their capability will be to add M1 PRO/MAX/DUO/QUAD devices for new products is.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

FWIW Here is my intended next purchase of a desktop:
Current desktop: Late 2013 21.5" iMac running Catalina 10.15.7, 8GB DDR 3 1600 RAM, 1TB Fusion HDD
Proposed Desktop purchase: 24" Silver M-1 iMac, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, another MS Office Home/Student license, yearly Apple Care+, assorted adapters and cables from Apple.

Proposed mainly because Turbo Tax told me that the 2021TT is the last to run on Catalina, 2022 MUST be upgraded. So I decided to go full bore Apple. I also have 3 iPad Minis from the 2 to the 5.

Crazy(?) idea: Perhaps re-think the all-Mac decision (I know, sacrilege!!!). One of the things about Windows is that updates are made to run on even relatively ancient hardware. Perhaps use bootcamp on that 2013 or even convert that 2013 to a dedicated Windows machine and use things like Turbotax, etc on the Windows side. Then you won't be pressed to upgrade hardware because of OS vintaging practices.

I know your 2013 could run at least Windows 10 (I got 10 running on a 2010 iMac bootcamp)... and probably latest Windows 11 (though that may take a little online research to figure out some extra steps). But whether 10 or 11, Windows versions of software like tax software will probably be compatible for many years to come.

I know Windows "is garbage, virus galore, etc, etc," but Windows will tend to install and run on even very old Mac hardware. With latest updates, new versions of software will run just fine on old systems. Apple choosing to hard press OS updates is a fruitful thing to drive new Mac purchases. Since that also presses software companies to support new OS sometimes at the expense of dumping support for slightly older OS, it all feeds into pushing new Mac purchases.

Windows seems to have a different strategy- flawed or not- of supporting "legacy/vintage" hardware much longer than Apple. Yes, that might contribute to kludge. Yes, that might weigh Windows down. Yes, _________________. But when it comes to running new versions of software on aging hardware, it generally "just works" there... without having to shell out dollars for new hardware as frequently as vintage-ing macOS hardware to hurry new Mac purchases.

 

[pshufd]

I went down and they had it in the basement - just the iMac and a power cord and it was turned on with a folder and a question mark on the screen. I thought to myself that this was not a good sign. So I plugged in keyboard and mouse and tried to get into Recovery but it wouldn't come up. I couldn't get Option to work either.

Fortunately I brought along a bootable High Sierra external SSD. I plugged it in and it recognized it and the Apple came up and it booted. I logged in and found that it was an i7, 8 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD. Not everything I was hoping for but I can work with this. It turns out that the 8 GB is 4x2 which was a disappointment but I took it anyways. I'll just use an SSD from spare parts and order some RAM to replace two of the sticks. I'm moderately happy with this deal.

I could have tried talking them down to $50 over the system not booting but then I wouldn't have known what it was. They were going to bring it to the dump if they didn't get any takers. I don't think that anyone else would have bought it. It's very hard to sell a system without knowing the specs and then getting there and seeing that it won't boot. I imagine that the vast majority of Craigslist buyers don't bring a bootable operating system or diagnositc drive along with them.

 

[pshufd]

Windows seems to have a different strategy- flawed or not- of supporting "legacy/vintage" hardware much longer than Apple. Yes, that might contribute to kludge. Yes, that might weigh Windows down. Yes, _________________. But when it comes to running new versions of software on aging hardware, it generally "just works" there... without having to shell out dollars for new hardware as frequently as vintage-ing macOS hardware to hurry new Mac purchases.

No more. Windows 11 requires TPM which requires relatively new machines. There was a big kerfuffle over this when it was announced.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yes, I know about that but if you do some searches, there are a LOT of posts about workarounds to get 11 running anyway. Whether any of those work or not- I don't know- Windows 10 was enough for me for now to be able to handle any client needs. When that is no longer possible, I'll probably buy a dedicated Mac Mini-like Windows 11 NUC for Windows needs and basically have a dedicated hardware "bootcamp" replacement. It's been so great to have ONE computer able to cover both bases for all of these years and I wish that could continue instead of returning to a situation where select people NEED Windows compatibility (to do their jobs for example) but WANT Macs.

Nevertheless, tax software and similar on Windows 10 will probably be supported for many years without pressing Windows 10 hardware owners to feel like they must buy a new Windows computer. That world has a much longer "supporting" window than our Mac world.

 

[pshufd]

Yes, I know about that but if you do some searches, there are a LOT of posts about workarounds to get 11 running anyway. Whether any of those work or not- I don't know- Windows 10 was enough for me for now to be able to handle any client needs.

Nevertheless, tax software on 10 will probably be supported for many years without pressing Windows 10 hardware owners to feel like they have to buy a new Windows computer. That world has a much longer "supporting" window than our Mac world.

W10 support ends in 2025.

I wouldn't be surprised if Windows starts requiring higher SIMD levels for hardware now that they can make assumptions about what they can or cannot support.

If you need to run newer macOS versions on unsupported hardware, QEMU may be an option. I installed a fairly recent version of macOS (Monterey or Big Sur I think), on a 2008 Dell Studio XPS mt435.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Even when official support ends, that doesn't mean it stops working. I can still run Windows 7 on that same iMac if I want and support for that ended long ago. For the guy that led to my post, I bet he can use updated tax software on Windows 10 through 2028 or so... if his 2013 iMac can keep chugging until then.

Of course, he can simply pay for perhaps 2 Macs by 2028 when the new one he might buy now is potentially vintaged before 2028. Again, I suspect the pace of "vintage" will speed up with M-series Macs... not because they lack the power (just like not because Intel Macs lacked the power) but because Apple may simply push new Mac hardware sales faster like they do with iDevices.

However, some Windows-running computer is probably still running about anything for Windows to 2028. If not, that guy might have to buy only 1 round of new hardware by then to almost certainly have full compatibility with anything for Windows.

Again, no big fan of Windows as all. I'm simply pointing out something based on my assumption of a darker element of M-series Macs... that I think they'll go from "more powerful than everything" to "long in tooth" faster than Macs have historically gone... more like exactly what motivates "shock & awe" new iPhones to "feeling long in tooth" after as little as 2 years or so.

 

[pshufd]

Even when official support ends, that doesn't mean it stops working. I can still run Windows 7 on that same iMac if I want and support for that ended long ago. For the guy that led to my post, I bet he can use updated tax software on Windows 10 through 2028 or so... if his 2013 iMac can keep chugging until then.

Of course, he can simply pay for perhaps 2 Macs by 2028 when the new one he might buy now is potentially vintaged before 2028. Again, I suspect the pace of "vintage" will speed up with M-series Macs... not because they lack the power (just like not because Intel Macs lacked the power) but because Apple may simply push new Mac hardware sales faster like they do with iDevices.

However, some Windows-running computer is probably still running about anything for Windows to 2028. If not, that guy might have to buy only 1 round of new hardware by then to almost certainly have full compatibility with anything for Windows.

Again, no big fan of Windows as all. I'm simply pointing out something based on my assumption of a darker element of M-series Macs... that I think they'll go for "more powerful than everything" to "long in tooth" faster than Macs have historically gone... more like exactly what motivates "shock & awe" new iPhones to "feeling long in tooth" after as little as 2 years or so.

I don't think that they'll do that given that Intel and AMD have higher levels of performance right now and given that Intel and AMD don't care how much power they use to get that performance.

TurboTax just lost Windows 8.1 support so 10 will go away at some point.

It doesn't matter given that TurboTax has had an online version for some time now.

TurboTax does use quite a bit of resource these days; even just to do updates. I suspect that it carries around all the code for the tax laws going five or six years which is why you can still open up all of your old TT files in the latest version.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Windows 8 support ended in 2018. So while I realize this is not "law", 2022-2018 = 4 years. If something like Turbotax will stop supporting Windows 10 when it ends support in 2025 + 4 years, that guy might get by with his 2013 running Windows 10 until 2029.

I do not have faith that M1 Macs will not be vintaged before 2028... but of course I could be entirely wrong about that. I simply have a suspicion that macOS evolution will make even M1MAX "feel long in tooth" before 2028. So if that wild guess pans out, the guy buying a new Mac now for that kind of reason probably has to buy another new Mac before 2028 for the same reason. OR he can just use what he has with Windows 10 (maybe 11) probably until 2029+ before he might have to buy new hardware for things like that.

Again, I have ZERO knowledge that things will go that way (and I'm personally quite enthusiastic about the rumored M1 MAX Mini for myself)- I'm just suspicious since that seems like the most Apple profitable way to go and the iDevice "long in tooth" cycle is well established and proven to work. Only time will tell.

 

[MBAir2010]

I do not have faith that M1 Macs will not be vintaged before 2028... but of course I could be entirely wrong about that. I simply have a suspicion that macOS evolution will make even M1MAX "feel long in tooth" before 2028.

they ( an' all) might have another device that runs WiosM with a sheet of glass and personal optics
eyewear for all the money being pumped into the internets infrastructure by then

 

[pshufd]

Windows 8 support ended in 2018. So while I realize this is not "law", 2022-2018 = 4 years. If something like Turbotax will stop supporting Windows 10 when it ends support in 2025 + 4 years, that guy might get by with his 2013 running Windows 10 until 2029.

I do not have faith that M1 Macs will not be vintaged before 2028... but of course I could be entirely wrong about that. I simply have a suspicion that macOS evolution will make even M1MAX "feel long in tooth" before 2028. So if that wild guess pans out, the guy buying a new Mac now for that kind of reason probably has to buy another new Mac before 2028 for the same reason. OR he can just use what he has with Windows 10 (maybe 11) probably until 2029+ before he might have to buy new hardware for things like that.

Again, I have ZERO knowledge that things will go that way (and I'm personally quite enthusiastic about the rumored M1 MAX Mini for myself)- I'm just suspicious since that seems like the most Apple profitable way to go and the iDevice "long in tooth" cycle is well established and proven to work. Only time will tell.

I'm typing this on a 2010 iMac and it's pretty nice for $100. The M1 Macs are a big bump in power for low-end CPUs. I think that they will be relevant a lot longer than the Intel Macs.

This 2010 iMac's CPU is faster than the MacBook Air 2019 by about 33%.

We'll see if I'm still using this 2010 iMac in 2030. If nothing else, it has a great monitor and speakers.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I'm typing this ALSO on a 2010 iMac. The highest macOS supported fr this machine is 10.13.6 "High Sierra." Much of the suite of Apple apps can't be upgraded to latest versions so if any Mac clients are using a newer version of Pages, etc. I have to use a newer Mac to help them with their files. There are hacks available to bypass Apple's choice to cut this hardware off at High Sierra that apparently do work. But hacks can lead to other issues and not everyone is comfortable employing them.

This "vintaging" approach is the issue here. That guy basically feels the push to buy a whole new Mac because his 2013 can't upgrade to a version of MacOS supported by a piece of software (and probably other software). What says that M1Macs won't be macOS "vintaged" in only a few years? As soon as macOS upgrades are cut off, even Apple's own software apps start becoming incompatible. Thus, one feels the need to buy a new Mac if they need to be able to work with the new files.

On the other hand, Windows 10 running on this same iMac- or even our older 2010s- can handle anything I've been getting that needs Windows. Why? Because Windows clings to supporting older hardware for longer than Apple. That can easily spun as both bad and good, but that guy already owns a 2013 iMac that certainly could use Windows 10 to cover his Turbotax need without having to lay out cash for a new Mac.

 

[pshufd]

I'm typing this ALSO on a 2010 iMac. The highest macOS supported fr this machine is 10.13.6 "High Sierra." Much of the suite of Apple apps can't be upgraded to latest versions so if any Mac clients are using a newer version of Pages, etc. I have to use a newer Mac to help them with their files. There are hacks available to bypass Apple's choice to cut this hardware off at High Sierra that apparently do work. But hacks can lead to other issues and not everyone is comfortable employing them.

This "vintaging" approach is the issue here. That guy basically feels the push to buy a whole new Mac because his 2013 can't upgrade to a version of MacOS supported by a piece of software (and probably other software). What says that M1Macs won't be macOS "vintaged" in only a few years? As soon as macOS upgrades are cut off, even Apple's own software apps start becoming incompatible. Thus, one feels the need to buy a new Mac if they need to be able to work with the new files.

On the other hand, Windows 10 running on this same iMac- or even our older 2010s- can handle anything I've been getting that needs Windows. Why? Because Windows clings to supporting older hardware for longer than Apple. That can easily spun as both bad and good, but that guy already owns a 2013 iMac that certainly could use Windows 10 to cover his Turbotax need without having to lay out cash for a new Mac.

I ran Monterey on my 2014 MacBook Pro. Piece of cake using OCLP to set it up. There's a long thread with directions and support.

M1 has a sick amount of performance relative to what the vast majority of people need. I don't think that will change in the next decade.

That's Windows 10. Windows 11 is different.

You can just run TurboTax online. Probably even on an iPad.

 

[Isengardtom]

I recommend door 3.

The mid tier model has more than the 8/8 core configuration to recommend it - additional USB ports, Gigabit Ethernet and the keyboard with touch ID, all of which make this the minimum configuration I think should be considered. (Plus you have more color choices, if that matters to you).

And it is well worth the $200 to upgrade to 16GB RAM. Remember that this can't be changed after purchase. If you think that you'll be using this for a few years then you'll be glad you went with the greater memory.

I went for your recommendation and got the mid tier 8 core GPU with upgrade to 16 GB memory, the full size keyboard and the trackpad instead of the mouse (I’m keeping the mouse on my 2017 iMac)

I got the blue one. i Like the silver and for some reason the yellow too but the silver would look pretty basic in my already dominant grey/white coloured flat and the yellow may be a bit much.

1.975 EUR - ouch. But my macs always last about 4-5 years so I’ll enjoy this device for a long time before I sell it to a family member or friend.

 

[Phil77354]

I went for your recommendation and got the mid tier 8 core GPU with upgrade to 16 GB memory, the full size keyboard and the trackpad instead of the mouse (I’m keeping the mouse on my 2017 iMac)

I got the blue one. i Like the silver and for some reason the yellow too but the silver would look pretty basic in my already dominant grey/white coloured flat and the yellow may be a bit much.

1.975 EUR - ouch. But my macs always last about 4-5 years so I’ll enjoy this device for a long time before I sell it to a family member or friend.

Nice! I think you will be very happy with this combination. Enjoy!

 

[Amsterdamned]

I found a local bargain at the weekend (Adelaide, Aus). Late 2013 27" base iMac for $380. They offered it to me for $350 and managed to walk out with it for $300 (approx $200 US) as the admin account password was unknown (easy fix). It was a 2 hour round trip but the price is very cheap for Australia, even more so for South Australia, so well worth it.

It's now stripped down and has been fully cleaned. The previous owner was a (very) heavy smoker so everything inside was an orangy brown colour and the dust build up in the slots at the bottom was more akin to tobacco, due to the nicotine staining. Not the nicest job but the end result was worth it. I really like the Maglev fans in these iMacs as you can properly take them apart and get them super clean.

I plan to install a Samsung 970 EVO 250GB for OS and a 500GB SSD for additional storage. I have them both lying around so the upgrade will cost me around $50, all-up, with the sintech nvme adapter and some replacement adhesive screen strips. Before I stripped it down I tested Open Core with Monterey 12.1 and it actually ran quite well, with the original 1TB HDD, so a proper SSD upgrade should give me a very nice iMac to play with until I get bored and look for the next upgrade.

Bargain

 

[Warped9]

Lately every day I go to work I see and admire the blue M1 iMac 24 on display. I find myself thinking about how much I’d like to pull the trigger and order a spec’d one from Apple (although I’d like a green one).

But I have some thoughts. Will SketchUp run on the M1? Will Creative Suite 4 run on the M1? Of course Microsoft Office will run on the M1.

I’m also thinking I’m good for waiting to see if there’ll be an M2 version of the iMac 24. I also want to see what the redesigned 27in. iMac will be like and it’s pricing.

Finally I’m wondering how long I can keep going with my upgraded and sweet running 2011 21.5 iMac with High Sierra before I have issues.

There’s a very good chance I’ll buy a new iPad before I buy a new iMac.