Your perfect laptop?

[motrek]

I actually still have a Sony 17" LCD i purchased in 2002-2003 and it looks better than the display on the MBA.

Sure, it cost me $1900 back in the day, but it still works and still has better viewing angles than the screen on the MBA.

At 1280x1024 it is also higher resolution than the 11"...

Huh, you must not use that Sony a lot. I'd say it's pretty unusual for a CCFL to last that long. I know I was using a monitor from circa 2004 up until 4-5 years ago but by then it had become dim and flickery enough that I considered it unusable.

In any case, color LCD monitors were starting to become mainstream in laptops back in ~1996, which is a full 6-7 years before your Sony. Their viewing angles were terrible and the refresh rates were so bad that they necessitated the "mouse trails" feature in Windows, which would draw your mouse cursor at every point it had been in the last few seconds, because otherwise the cursor would simply disappear and you wouldn't be able to find it again without playing "where's waldo" across half your screen.

If you wanted to call one of those screens a "tragedy" then I might agree with you, and I would find it unconscionable to sell such a display in 2015.

But the MBA display was considered somewhat above-average back in 2010, and that was only 5 years ago. Do you think that human eyeballs have evolved so much in the last 5 years that a screen that was objectively considered "very good" back then is now a "tragedy"?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3991/apples-2010-macbook-air-11-13inch-reviewed/5

 

[zhenya]

I disagree with people who think the MBA screen is truly awful. No, it's nowhere near as good as the retina class screens, but for an inexpensive TN screen, it's decent. The viewing angles are ok, and it's easy to live with. I've seen a number of MUCH worse screens just in the last year or so on MUCH more expensive PC laptops.

 

[throAU]

Do you think that human eyeballs have evolved so much in the last 5 years that a screen that was objectively considered "very good" back then is now a "tragedy"?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3991/apples-2010-macbook-air-11-13inch-reviewed/5

No, but the definition of "good" has moved on significantly.

The MBA screen was reasonable in 2010. It wasn't ever great. It was "good enough". Even compared to my 2011 Pro screen, it is and was garbage (in terms of viewing angle if nothing else).

These days there are plenty of other machines with far superior screens at similar/same price.

 

[2984839]

That sounds like the ThinkPad retro T92 laptop. I wouldn't want Intel Wireless cards now because they have stability issues despite having the best performance out of any brands when the adapter is working properly. I prefer Marvell or Broadcom in this case is I have never had a problem with those WiFi brands.
mSATA is starting to be outdated, I want a PCIE x2 M.2 SSD with an extra 2.5 mm SSD SATA III space.

Frankly, if my T42 had a serial port and modern internals it would be perfect. I can't use Broadcom because of the lack of open source support. Atheros, Ralink and Intel generally work much better on OpenBSD, so I'd choose one of those. I would have no problem with an M.2 SSD slot, but I think mSATA SSDs are easier to find, though I have not shopped for either recently.

 

[Splitbolt]

Just to get away from the displays for a moment I think 8gig as standard memory on the Airs with an option for higher would be perfect. There's a number of reasons for going with more memory from scratch all of them good. I'd take that over a retina screen because I can always plug in a monitor.

I don't see any reason to make 8Gig standard. I am happy with 4 Gig and I am even happier that I was not forced to spend more money on memory that I absolutely do not need.

 

[Splitbolt]

I disagree with people who think the MBA screen is truly awful. No, it's nowhere near as good as the retina class screens, but for an inexpensive TN screen, it's decent. The viewing angles are ok, and it's easy to live with. I've seen a number of MUCH worse screens just in the last year or so on MUCH more expensive PC laptops.

I'm not looking for it to be Retina level. I am looking for it to be at the same level of a year 2008 basic, inexpensive monitor. But it's worse than that.

 

[Splitbolt]

But the MBA display was considered somewhat above-average back in 2010, and that was only 5 years ago. Do you think that human eyeballs have evolved so much in the last 5 years that a screen that was objectively considered "very good" back then is now a "tragedy"?

Human eyeballs haven't changed, however, what we are used to seeing has.

For example, I am so used to seeing HD television that when I go to my parent's house and watch their SD TV, it looks absolutely horrible to me.

ETA: I thought this forum condensed multiple posts made in a row into 1?

 

[zhenya]

I'm not looking for it to be Retina level. I am looking for it to be at the same level of a year 2008 basic, inexpensive monitor. But it's worse than that.

It's really not. Most 'basic' monitors sold today are still garbage. Those sold in 2008, with few exceptions, were as well. Of the 100 or so monitors we have in our office, the only ones from that era that are really still usable were IPS ones that we splurged on. The rest really show their age.

The MBA screen is good for what it is, an inexpensive, TN screen. It doesn't have glaring off-angle viewing issues, it doesn't have the hot-spots that I've seen on a number of $2k and above Windows business laptops, and it doesn't have any glaring color issues. No, it's not state of the art for 2015, but frankly, that's not the position the Air occupies anymore. Don't get carried away with the hyperbole.

 

[Splitbolt]

Blurry? It's a digital display and each individual pixel is separately controlled. There's scientifically no way it could possibly be "blurry" unless you have the screen set to a non-native resolution and it has to interpolate.

Maybe post a picture of the displays next to each other and we can see what you're talking about.

It's very hard to see in a picture, it's worse in real life. But this picture shows the difference.

If you look at the two vagina shaped areas of the higher cliff you can see how they are "blurry" on the MBA compared to the cheap Asus monitor.

 

[Splitbolt]

It's really not.

No, it IS.

You can tell me that I am wrong as much as you want to, but it won't change the fact that the MBA display is really bad, even compared to older, cheap LCD monitors.

The MBA screen is good for what it is, an inexpensive, TN screen.

It's not really "good". It's actualy quite "bad" compared to even the cheapest $400 laptops available today. A $1,000 premium laptop should have a better display, that is all I am saying.

Don't get carried away with the hyperbole.

I have used absolutely no hyperbole in this thread. My examples are accurate and exact.

 

[zhenya]

No, it IS.

You can tell me that I am wrong as much as you want to, but it won't change the fact that the MBA display is really bad, even compared to older, cheap LCD monitors.

It's not really "good". It's actualy quite "bad" compared to even the cheapest $400 laptops available today. A $1,000 premium laptop should have a better display, that is all I am saying.

I have used absolutely no hyperbole in this thread. My examples are accurate and exact.

Hyperbole is exactly what the above is. Have you looked at a cheap laptop screen lately? They nearly universally have at least one, some of them all, of the common issues I cited above.

 

[Splitbolt]

Hyperbole is exactly what the above is.

No, it is NOT.

Have you looked at a cheap laptop screen lately?

Yes, I actually just setup my sister's $350 Dell. I also used her 5 year old $400 Dell that is on the fritz and the new one is replacing. Both of which have nicer displays than my MBA.

I use inexpensive displays all the time. I have direct comparison to my MBA with dozens of other displays.

You need to go lookup the word "hyperbole".

They nearly universally have at least one, some of them all, of the common issues I cited above.

I'm not worried about your issues. The only thing I am commenting on is the poor display that the MBA air has compared to ultra cheap laptops and external displays.

 

[zhenya]

I entirely disagree. You seem to have an axe to grind and don't want to listen to the reasonable experiences or opinions of others so I'm done here.

 

[Splitbolt]

I entirely disagree. You seem to have an axe to grind and don't want to listen to the reasonable experiences or opinions of others so I'm done here.

I don't have an axe to grind it all. I love the laptop, as you can see by the limited changes I would make to it when I started this thread.

I'm just not going to lie and say that the display is good when it's actually very, very poor.

Your opinion and experience is worthless. No one asked for it nor does it change anything. I honestly can't believe that you are so arrogant as to assume that I would change my opinion on the poor display simply because you say that it's not. I still can't believe that you actually said that.

 

[z31fanatic]

Have you looked at a cheap laptop screen lately?

Yes, I had a $200 11" Asus with 2GB and Intel Celeron processor. My eyes appreciated its screen a lot more than the Air I had at the time.

It's ok if you consider the Air screen acceptable and don't have a problem with it. But don't tell me it's a good screen.
It truly is horrible especially with Yosemite (with Linux and Windows it looked better).
I love everything about the Air and it would be my only laptop if it had a good display but the current display kills it for me. Three times I went back to an Air thinking maybe I will live with it but no, my eyes would get tired working with that display.
It's unacceptable for a $1000 laptop to have such a low quality display.

 

[BenTrovato]

The MBA screen is awful. However it is entirely possible that some eye balls cannot see the difference between a retina screen and a classic panel. It is still acceptable and can function but at the price Apple charges for the MBA - the screen is downright awful.

 

[motrek]

No, it IS.

You can tell me that I am wrong as much as you want to, but it won't change the fact that the MBA display is really bad, even compared to older, cheap LCD monitors.
...

Give me a break. I gave you a link to the Anandtech article where they OBJECTIVELY measured contrast, brightness, color accuracy, and color gamut. According to scientific equipment, the 2010 MBA's screen was OBJECTIVELY better than most other 2010 laptops.

This directly contradicts your idea that the MBA screen is worse than old cheap monitors.

So if you ask me which I'm going to believe, science or your opinion, that's a pretty easy choice for me.

Maybe it's time to get your eyes checked?

 

[motrek]

The MBA screen is awful. However it is entirely possible that some eye balls cannot see the difference between a retina screen and a classic panel. It is still acceptable and can function but at the price Apple charges for the MBA - the screen is downright awful.

I don't think anybody here is claiming that the MBA panel is better than, or even in the same league as, one of Apple's retina panels.

I can see an obvious difference between the panels, and the retina panels are obviously better.

I think everybody here is simply arguing that the MBA screen is not awful, or horrible, or a "tragedy," which are the kinds of words people in this thread are using to describe it. As you yourself say, it's "acceptable and can function."

I don't see how "acceptable and can function" can agree with "downright awful." You have to pick one or the other.

 

[Splitbolt]

The MBA screen is awful. However it is entirely possible that some eye balls cannot see the difference between a retina screen and a classic panel. It is still acceptable and can function but at the price Apple charges for the MBA - the screen is downright awful.

That's gotta be it. The people who are defending the MBA display must

Give me a break. I gave you a link to the Anandtech article where they OBJECTIVELY measured contrast, brightness, color accuracy, and color gamut. According to scientific equipment, the 2010 MBA's screen was OBJECTIVELY better than most other 2010 laptops.

This directly contradicts your idea that the MBA screen is worse than old cheap monitors.

So if you ask me which I'm going to believe, science or your opinion, that's a pretty easy choice for me.

Maybe it's time to get your eyes checked?

I posted evidence which you conveniently ignored. It's funny how that works, I post evidence of the MBA's blurry display and you attempt to refute it by quoting tests which don't change anything. Hell, you're the one who asked for the picture and after I post it, proving you wrong, you act like it's not even there.

As for your "science", it doesn't prove anything. You can run all the tests in the world and it won't prove that the MBA display is good.

As for getting eyes checked, as someone else mentioned above, it is probably you who has the issue with your eyes. If you can't see the difference between a good display and a poor one, there is something wrong with your vision. For all of us who can clearly see how poor the MBA display is, our vision is working just fine.

 

[Splitbolt]

I don't see how "acceptable and can function" can agree with "downright awful." You have to pick one or the other.

No, you don't have to pick one or the other. The MBA display is worse than the display on cheap $350 laptops, it's downright awful for a $1,000+ premium laptop. However, it can certainly function and people have find it acceptable since all the other aspects of the MBA are great.

 

[motrek]

That's gotta be it. The people who are defending the MBA display must

I posted evidence which you conveniently ignored. It's funny how that works, I post evidence of the MBA's blurry display and you attempt to refute it by quoting tests which don't change anything. Hell, you're the one who asked for the picture and after I post it, proving you wrong, you act like it's not even there.

As for your "science", it doesn't prove anything. You can run all the tests in the world and it won't prove that the MBA display is good.

As for getting eyes checked, as someone else mentioned above, it is probably you who has the issue with your eyes. If you can't see the difference between a good display and a poor one, there is something wrong with your vision. For all of us who can clearly see how poor the MBA display is, our vision is working just fine.

What "evidence"? In your post with the picture, you yourself admit that the difference is difficult to capture with a camera. Well, if the screens are truly that different, and the MBA's screen is truly that awful, then the difference should be really easy to capture, right? I mean, why wouldn't it be?

And no, I don't see any evidence of "blurriness."

If the screen really is blurry, then you will be able to see that blurriness much clearer by displaying a black-and-white test pattern. How about you take a close-up picture of one of those, which would actually prove your point, instead of posting nature photographs where any perceived blurriness is almost certainly a result of how the image is being scaled to different resolutions?

 

[Splitbolt]

It's like arguing with a child. How many people have to say that the MBA display is poor compared to even cheap laptops and displays?

I am going to do what you do with a knowitall child and just pat you on your head and say "Sure, you're right, now run along".

 

[motrek]

It's like arguing with a child. How many people have to say that the MBA display is poor compared to even cheap laptops and displays?

I am going to do what you do with a knowitall child and just pat you on your head and say "Sure, you're right, now run along".

And plenty of people have also chimed in on this thread saying that the display is similar or better vs. cheaper/older displays. The idea that a few people agree with you doesn't prove anything.

Nor does your laughable photographic "evidence" which you seemed to admit from the outset didn't really prove your point.

I see that, faced with the realization that yours is a losing argument, you have gone with the time-tested approach of calling your debate partner names and leaving the conversation.

 

[Splitbolt]

Nor does your laughable photographic "evidence" which you seemed to admit from the outset didn't really prove your point.

Yet again you are being willful ignorant. I took a picture just like you asked me to, that picture clearly shows the MBA monitor to show the image much blurrier than the external monitor. As I said in that post, and I quote "It's very hard to see in a picture, it's worse in real life. But this picture shows the difference.".

Again, the picture I posted clearly shows how the MBA display is worse, it's just that it is actually a larger difference in real life.

I never said that my picture "didn't prove my point", that is a blatant lie. You, Sir, are a liar. You are acting like a child, and I am through with you. The last word is all yours.

 

[X-Caliber]

Yet again you are being willful ignorant. I took a picture just like you asked me to, that picture clearly shows the MBA monitor to show the image much blurrier than the external monitor. As I said in that post, and I quote "It's very hard to see in a picture, it's worse in real life. But this picture shows the difference.".

Again, the picture I posted clearly shows how the MBA display is worse, it's just that it is actually a larger difference in real life.

I never said that my picture "didn't prove my point", that is a blatant lie. You, Sir, are a liar. You are acting like a child, and I am through with you. The last word is all yours.

Splitbolt, I agree that picture shows the MBA screen is indeed more blurry than the external monitor. I still absolutely love my MBA. It works flawlessly for me. Ultimately, right now you cannot have the best of both world's lol you can either get light weight and better battery with the MBA or you can better screen, faster, and much heavier with the MBP. Personally, the light weight and better battery was more important than a better screen. I carry my laptop everywhere for school and work and it is imperative I have a light weight, battery efficient, laptop. Even if the screen is not the best.