Your windows laptops experience please

[hajime]

Hello, for those who have used both Mac OS and Windows 10, how is your experience with Windows 10 especially on laptops? I am particularly interested in hearing your constructive experience on the following categories: backup of the entire system including settings, stability, virus related issues, migration to a new computer, UI and clarify of text under 4K, chances of having issues when connecting your laptop to projector in public for presentation, after sales services, syncing of files between windows laptop and iOS devices (e.g. backing up the phone/iPad, copying photos and movies from iphone/ipad to Windows), integration with iPhone and iPad, etc. Other constructive discussions are welcome.

 

[netnewswireuser]

I think both systems are pretty much equal at technical level, but macOS has an advantage in most of the points you mentioned.

- backup of the entire system -> Carbon Copy Cloner. Backup your entire system to an external disk and you can even boot up any other Mac with it (without installing drivers or anything. It just works no Windows driver mess)

- UI and clarify of text under 4K -> hidpi scaled resolutions solve this

- connecting your laptop to projector -> using a thunberbolt to hdmi adapter or even vga it works flawlessly

- syncing of files between windows laptop and iOS devices -> bult-in in macOS through iCloud and it's transparent and works perfect.

One thing you didn't mention but It's super important is security patches, Windows 10 is very annoying with tons of patches and reboots... macOS' fixes are usually bundled in one big package and maybe you have to reboot once a month. Never had a problem with macOS updates.

For your particular use case I think macOS is superior and more convenient than Windows.

 

[Queen6]

Backup is built directly into Windows 10 - Settings - Backup - look for Backup and Restore Windows 7, follow the links to create a system image. You can image the partitions, drives, multiple drives, entire multi drive systems. Has never once failed for me to restore a system. This by far the easiest and fastest solution from the Desktop to being backed up in 5 clicks. If you want something similar to Time Machine opt for the MS File History, although I personally opt for system images.

Migration has always been a mixed bag and one I personally avoid regardless of OS. Far preferring to set the computer up from scratch and then allow working data to sync via the Cloud or external drive, this way one does not carry any inconsistencies to the new system.

Never had any issue with W10 and external displays, projectors etc. equally I avoid dongles with logic as in general they only serve to add another layer of complexity (rMB & MBP being a prime examples). I've had issue with Apple's hardware and OS thx to dongles, no more period, simply wasting my time.

Scaling remains to be problematic under W10, requiring user logout, restarts. if you require 4K I believe it's better to have a notebook that is natively has a 4K display, this way when one connects a 4K external lees issue is likely to occur. As for the UI as the scaling is massively different to macOS it's very much on the developer to get it right.

For my professional need Windows 10 is simply more performant and stable, ignore the comments regarding W10 multiple reboots as this is controllable at the user level, even with W10 Home. Microsoft has as vastly larger threat profile and resultantly is far more aggressive in issuing updates than Apple needs to be.

Set the network connection to "Metered" this will halt all updates barring those that are absolutely critical. The downside is that you will now need to manual instigate MS Store and Office updates etc. My profession is a quality engineer within heavy industry requiring 4-6 weeks on site representing the client, never once has my Windows 10 systems inadvertently rebooted, those saying different simply didn't take the time to understand how the OS operates, plain and simple.

To put things into perspective for me to fail to deliver to the client costs more than Apple's finest portable on a daily basis, hence why I expect far more not less, unfortunately now has little to no regard for it's professional users, just Starbucks specials if you will...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

how is your experience with Windows 10 especially on laptops?

First off let me say Windows was always had more flexbility, more options, more customizations. It is a more feature rich OS. Its not perfect, I feel there are things that OS X does better and easier, more so in the apple ecosystem but if you're comparing work type tasks consider the world runs on Windows, so its pretty obvious that it has the ability to be just as productive as OS X.

As I mentioned in other threads, TM is a superior solution imo, and with a recovery partition its quite easy to restore a single file or version of a file or an entire system. I have on my Surface Book a rescovery USB, so I can easily recovery the system, but it can be time consuming. It took me literally 8+ hours to reinstall windows 10 from the recovery USB, and its required updates. I've reinstalled OSX from its recovery partition in under an hour. I'm not talking about restoring my data, just the OS.

Neither OS is perfect, but windows is an extremely capable OS, and I think OS X is a very capable one. I do believe if you're in Apple's ecosystem, then there are intangible benefits with OS X. For instance. I constantly use iMessage on my iMac to interact with my friends and family.

- backup of the entire system -> Carbon Copy Cloner. Backup your entire system to an external disk and you can even boot up any other Mac with it (without installing drivers or anything. It just works no Windows driver mess)

Agreed, its so much simpler with OS X. There used to be a product out there called norton ghost, that worked so well, but that's not available to the consumer. I'm not sure changes to the windows archtecture also complicated it, can't say one way or another since I've not used it in eons.

One thing you didn't mention but It's super important is security patches, Windows 10 is very annoying with tons of patches and reboots... macOS' fixes are usually bundled in one big package and maybe you have to reboot once a month.

Patch tuesday can be annoying, but not for nothing, Microsoft is a lot more forthcoming in security related information.

Never had a problem with macOS updates.

I have and many others have as well. Both companies can roll something out that makes life worse.

 

[hajime]

Set the network connection to "Metered" this will halt all updates barring those that are absolutely critical. The downside is that you will now need to manual instigate MS Store and Office updates etc. My profession is a quality engineer within heavy industry requiring 4-6 weeks on site representing the client, never once has my Windows 10 systems inadvertently rebooted, those saying different simply didn't take the time to understand how the OS operates, plain and simple.
Q-6

One of the advantages of paying more for the Professional version is that the user can delay the updates. So, we don't really need to pay more for this useful feature by setting the network connection to "Metered"?
[doublepost=1527505846][/doublepost]Anybody done some benchmarking on the performance hit due to Spectre and Meltdown? I may be wrong but I think under Windows, for intensive SSD tasks, the worst performance drop could be about 20%. I think I read somewhere that Apple did a better job at those patches to have less impact on the performance drop?

 

[maflynn]

One of the advantages of paying more for the Professional version is that the user can delay the updates. So, we don't really need to pay more for this useful feature by setting the network connection to "Metered"?

I have windows 10 pro, so I can't answer this specifically but I believe you can schedule when the machine gets rebooted, i.e., off hours. Its not a home or pro thing. There's delaying an update which you can do in the pro, or schedule a reboot to a time that is convenient to yourself. See this link https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/stop-windows-automatic-reboots

Anybody done some benchmarking on the performance hit due to Spectre and Meltdown? I may be wrong but I think under Windows, for intensive SSD tasks, the worst performance drop could be about 20%. I think I read somewhere that Apple did a better job at those patches to have less impact on the performance drop?

Both OS's are going to suffer from performance degredation due to patches needed, I can't see if apple has better performance after these patches or not. Its a lose-lose situation regardless of which platform you're on.
[doublepost=1527506156][/doublepost]One thing I like about OS X over windows is the update process, I don't have old updates clogging my c:\windows directory consuming huge amounts of space and it seems that its in your best interest to wipe a windows machine and reinstall from scratch every so often. There's more cruft that builds up over time. OS X has this too, but it seems more painful in windows.
[doublepost=1527506673][/doublepost]Its funny as I use my Surface Book this morning, one thing that I really like in a windows machine is the Task manager, Apple really dumbed down its activity monitor, where as MS gives you the task manager and Resource Monitor

Also there's some really cool tools. For example, I use Sysinternals. A great set of free utilties that really extend the power of windows.

Also do you know that you can run Linux inside of windows?
Windows Subsystem for Linux Documentation

You can actually install an x windows server for windows 10 and then run a full graphical version of ubuntu running natively inside of windows 10, not a virtualized environment but running natively. as a nerdy person, I find that really cool. I may try that later today

 

[Winterfibre]

I never thought i would go back to windows 10, but w10 is brilliant, stable.

 

[Queen6]

One of the advantages of paying more for the Professional version is that the user can delay the updates. So, we don't really need to pay more for this useful feature by setting the network connection to "Metered"?
[doublepost=1527505846][/doublepost]Anybody done some benchmarking on the performance hit due to Spectre and Meltdown? I may be wrong but I think under Windows, for intensive SSD tasks, the worst performance drop could be about 20%. I think I read somewhere that Apple did a better job at those patches to have less impact on the performance drop?

Setting the network to metered works equally in W10 Pro & W10 Home, so no need unless W10 Pro has a feature that one needs. The hit from Spectre & Meltdown is very much dependant on the OEM as requires a BIOS update, equally one should assess the real world threat, frankly least of my concerns.

Q-6
[doublepost=1527511249][/doublepost]

One thing I like about OS X over windows is the update process, I don't have old updates clogging my c:\windows directory consuming huge amounts of space and it seems that its in your best interest to wipe a windows machine and reinstall from scratch every so often. There's more cruft that builds up over time. OS X has this too, but it seems more painful in windows.

You should dig deeper into 1803, Windows compresses and deletes any updates. Last time I needed to "wipe" a Windows system was over a decade ago...

After all, if one doesn't read the book, how can one expect to follow the story...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

You should dig deeper into 1803, Windows compresses and deletes any updates. Last time I needed to "wipe" a Windows system was over a decade ago..

It still clogs up the subdirectory, and I stil feel that wiping and starting over is a good thing on a windows machine. I had loaded Linux on my Surface Book for a period of time, I reformatted and reinstalled windows and while that took way too long, the SB is much more perkier then it was in a while

 

[oldhifi]

I'll never go back to Windows full time only when I have to, but Win 10 does seem nice

 

[hajime]

One thing I noticed is that most Windows laptops especially DELL only have two screen resolutions: 1080 or 4K. For me, I need a screen of over 40" to be able to see the text clearly. I also do not want to do scaling as it destroys the purpose of 4K and I have heard that Windows 10 has issues with 4K scaling. So, a 13-15" laptops with 4K may not be suitable for me. Anyway, do laptops with 4K screen lose battery power sooner? How much sooner? 1 or 2 hours compared with the same laptop with 1080 screen?

If I just use 4K when connecting a Windows laptop to an external 4K screen without scaling due to the large monitor size, then I don't have to worrying about Windows's issues with 4K displays?

 

[Queen6]

It still clogs up the subdirectory, and I stil feel that wiping and starting over is a good thing on a windows machine. I had loaded Linux on my Surface Book for a period of time, I reformatted and reinstalled windows and while that took way too long, the SB is much more perkier then it was in a while

I've reloaded system images on my Surface Book as it was a contractual requirement, however I don't waste time on rebuilding the system on other W10 based notebooks as I simply see no need.

Try benchmarking your current W10 system, back up and archive. Wipe, clean install, benchmark then you'll see, variance will be negligible. Likely will cost you more in time than productivity....

Q-6

 

[hajime]

Usually I can find the files I want using Spotlight on the Mac. How good is the file search function in Windows 10?

 

[Queen6]

Usually I can find the files I want using Spotlight on the Mac. How good is the file search function in Windows 10?

Spotlight is vastly superior, W10 you need to be far more specific and organised, or seek a 3rd party solution.

Q-6

 

[hajime]

Spotlight is vastly superior, W10 you need to be far more specific and organised, or seek a 3rd party solution.

Q-6

Thanks. Is the best 3rd party solution as good as Spotlight? If so, what is the name of that solution?

 

[Queen6]

Thanks. Is the best 3rd party solution as good as Spotlight? If so, what is the name of that solution?

I don't personally use as I have everything well organised for my projects, mirrored across all my systems.

Q-6

 

[macgeek18]

Windows 10 is pretty stable these days. I haven't had any major issues for awhile.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Thanks. Is the best 3rd party solution as good as Spotlight? If so, what is the name of that solution?

You could perhaps have a look at this article. I have tried Wox before and it is not bad. Cortana has also improved.

 

[hajime]

So, Windows 10 is good enough to use now and it can be considered as an alternative to Mac OS if Apple users are fed up with Apple? I just need to find a good manufacturer that produces reliable laptops with good after sales services. How is DELL and Razer's products and services? I like the Razer blade but from the internet, it looks like they have poor after sales services. It also looks like these days, Apple is going down while DELL is going up. Apple still leads a bit since Steve made a very strong foundation in Mac OS and after sales services. Perhaps in two years, DELL would be #1?

 

[macjunk(ie)]

So, Windows 10 is good enough to use now and it can be considered as an alternative to Mac OS if Apple users are fed up with Apple? I just need to find a good manufacturer that produces reliable laptops with good after sales services. How is DELL and Razer's products and services? I like the Razer blade but from the internet, it looks like they have poor after sales services. It also looks like these days, Apple is going down while DELL is going up. Apple still leads a bit since Steve made a very strong foundation in Mac OS and after sales services. Perhaps in two years, DELL would be #1?

This article says Lenovo is good. Personally, I have had a good experience with Lenovo and Dell. Hardware wise, I feel Lenovo offers more reliable hardware.

 

[hajime]

This article says Lenovo is good. Personally, I have had a good experience with Lenovo and Dell. Hardware wise, I feel Lenovo offers more reliable hardware.

But the letters on the keys and the corners/edges of the case get worn off easily.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Thanks. Is the best 3rd party solution as good as Spotlight? If so, what is the name of that solution?

I use a freeware (open source) utility in Windows called 'Everything'. It is very fast and very versatile.

http://www.voidtools.com/

In my opinion it is just as good as Spotlight.

Cortana, as already mentioned by others, is also not bad at all.

[doublepost=1527604449][/doublepost]

So, Windows 10 is good enough to use now and it can be considered as an alternative to Mac OS if Apple users are fed up with Apple? I just need to find a good manufacturer that produces reliable laptops with good after sales services. How is DELL and Razer's products and services? I like the Razer blade but from the internet, it looks like they have poor after sales services. It also looks like these days, Apple is going down while DELL is going up. Apple still leads a bit since Steve made a very strong foundation in Mac OS and after sales services. Perhaps in two years, DELL would be #1?

Because of the bigger variety in choices in the Windows world (you can get laptops/desktops starting from around $200) there is also more difference in quality. In my experience Windows laptops > $1000 (Dell XPS, HP Envy, Lenovo, Surface laptop/book etc.) are of good to superior quality (you get what you pay for). The best thing to do is simply Google or search YouTube for reviews.

The mistake a lot of people make is comparing a cheap laptop to an expensive MacBook and then saying 'Windows is garbage'.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

But the letters on the keys and the corners/edges of the case get worn off easily.

This is not my experience with the Thinkpads. I have used P51, L470 and T470. All these models had great long lasting keyboards. The only

I use a freeware (open source) utility in Windows called 'Everything'. It is very fast and very versatile.

http://www.voidtools.com/

In my opinion it is just as good as Spotlight.

Cortana is also mentioned and is getting better and better.

[doublepost=1527604449][/doublepost]

Because of the bigger variety in choices in the Windows world (you can get laptops/desktops starting from $200) there is also more differences in quality. In my experience Windows laptops > $1000 (Dell XPS, HP Envy etc.) are good quality. The best thing to do is simply Google or search YouTube.

The mistake a lot of people make is comparing a cheap laptop to an expensive MacBook and then saying 'Windows is garbage'.

Did not know about voidtools. Thanks.
I agree with your statement. Hardware wise, Apple is thoroughly beaten by the competition of today. But software wise, not so much. I have tried Linux, Windows 7/10 and OSX and OSX is miles ahead by far. Not just because of the way OSX is but the applications that are developed for it.

Look at voidtools on Windows and Alfred/Launchbar/Spotlight on OSX. The latter seems to have been developed with care and attention to details. I use a markdown app called Ulysses which is gobsmackingly good.

And there is Setapp. For a 100$ a year, I have access to a 100 high quality applications. This is like the Netflix of apps. I probably use a dozen apps from this suite to enhance my productivity. Something similar on Windows will cost me a fortune and even then, I am not sure the apps will be designed in a way that I like.

This article from Ars was a very interesting read on why apps in Windows don't seem consistent.

The best solution to me (yet to try it): Hackintosh. Hackintoshing a laptop might be painful but a DIY desktop should be relatively easy from the looks of it. Perhaps, buy the cheapest Apple laptop you can find to satisfy your mobile needs.

 

[hajime]

This is not my experience with the Thinkpads. I have used P51, L470 and T470. All these models had great long lasting keyboards. The only

The only what?
[doublepost=1527682307][/doublepost]At least about 20 years ago, one issue I had using Windows laptop was availability of fonts. With Mac OS, I have no issue with unavailability of fonts. With Windows, sometimes the fonts that I want to use or used by documents created by others were not available. This caused some problems. How is the situation with Windows 10?

 

[macjunk(ie)]

The only what?
[doublepost=1527682307][/doublepost]At least about 20 years ago, one issue I had using Windows laptop was availability of fonts. With Mac OS, I have no issue with unavailability of fonts. With Windows, sometimes the fonts that I want to use or used by documents created by others were not available. This caused some problems. How is the situation with Windows 10?

Hmmm...Not sure why I left it at that.
Well..with Thinkpads, the only thing that is not so great is if you buy a laptop with PWM enabled displays. PWM is still used by Thinkpads in some of their models and it is a shame that they do. I have sensitive eyes and it affects me. NotebookCheck reviews of Thinkpad determine whether the displays have PWM or not.

I don't care outside of the default fonts installed in the OS. So don't have an opinion on the missing fonts.