Youtube thinks HTML5 isn't up to par with Flash

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by KnightWRX, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. KnightWRX macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #1
  2. UTclassof89 macrumors 6502

    UTclassof89

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    #2
    ooooohh stand back; you've opened the floodgates now....

    (but thanks for posting this; some MR readers appreciate thoughtful discourse)
     
  3. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

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    #3
    Pretty much full of fail.


    1. Standard Video Format
    In the same rational, because most mobile phones don't support flash, flash is not a standard video format.

    2. Robust video streaming
    Yes, not addressed… in theory. In reality, HTML5 works great on mobile devices while Flash does not work very well.

    3. Content Protection
    What content protection? It's easy to download a flash video. In fact, ANY youtube video can be downloaded easily.

    4. Embedding
    It's easy to embed HTML5 video.

    5. Fullscreen video
    iOS devices have them
    Safari 5 can play HTML5 video fullscreen

    6. Camera and Microphone access
    Flash not needed for that
     
  4. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #4
    Seeing how there's Youtube and Vimeo pushing HTML5, I take their word for it if they say Flash offers more now, and in the foreseeable future, to your kool-aid tainted dismissal.

    These guys are the ones making the player for the most used video streaming site on the web. They were first to adopt HTML5. You'd think that maybe they have some knowledge on the issue.

    What is your background ?
     
  5. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #5
    Android has Flash. BlackBerry is getting Flash later this year. The only major mobile platform that won't have Flash is iOS, and that's because of Apple's refusal to allow browser plugins to be coded with the SDK, not Adobe.

    Flash works fine on my Android

    Flash is capable of DRM. YouTube doesn't use it for uploaded videos, but they do bring up YouTube rentals, where I assume it is used.

    No real argument there.

    There's more to this world than iOS and Safari 5.

    HTML5 can't do microphone/webcam access, so for the web, your choices are a Java applet or Flash to do those. I'll take Flash.
     
  6. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

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    #6
    Android has been on the market for how many years, and Flash barely works on it. That must be Apple's fault.

    Full screen been done. It's possible.

    So now DRM is good when it comes to flash??? That is surely the OPEN option. Flash fans are pretty blind.
     
  7. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #7
    Fanboys conveniently ignore my previous post, in which it is indicated that Adobe has now shipped Flash 10.1 for most mobile platforms :

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=949077

    Arn insisting on posting bad stuff about Flash as page 1 news but ignoring the positive stuff only exacerbates the problem.

    As for embedding, I think you need to read again what is said :

    They are talking about embedding a Youtube video in something like phpBB forums, the Youtube tag. They aren't talking about embedding video in your own webpage where you control every aspect.

    And their reasonning is sound. If I were to need to embed the HTML5 video from Youtube, I obviously can't use their player without modifying my own webpage. Embedding their Flash component gives me all their features instantly, because I am essentially using all their code.

    What is done with a simple embed tag with Flash will require multiple script tabs to go along with your video tag and a deep understanding of how the player works.

    Their reasoning is sound, your dismissal is pure ludicrousness. You lack understanding of the subject and it is really sad that we have to have you post on this subject. This will not help HTML5 adoption if all the truely interested parties aren't open to discussion on how to make HTML5 usable to developers out there.
     
  8. belvdr macrumors 603

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    #8
    Who said it was Apple's fault? Oh, that was you. Why are you implying others said this nonsense?

    Flash was just released for the mobile platforms, which has nothing to do with how long the phone has been on the market. It's up to Adobe to put this out there, not the phone manufacturer.

    Nobody said that; once again, you're adding words to the conversation. I'm not a DRM fan by any means, but if someone wants DRM on their content, can they use HTML5? It seems the answer is no.
     
  9. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #9
    Of course, with the exception of Apple, whose ridiculous app restrictions make a Flash plugin for the iPhone impossible.
     
  10. belvdr macrumors 603

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    #10
    Very true. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  11. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #11
    The worse part is seeing how the mobile 10.1 announcement was made and that they are now shipping for Android, Symbian, BB, WebOS, Meego, you have to wonder if they don't have a iOS version internally. They probably do. All Apple as to do is say "go!" and we all get it tomorrow in all probability.
     
  12. UTclassof89 macrumors 6502

    UTclassof89

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    #12
    Weird thing is, with the seemingly robust event-handling HTML 5 video appears to have, it doesn't look like there's an oncuepoint event. Anyone have real-world experience with this? Is that as huge an omission as it appears to be?
     
  13. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #13
    I think Adobe should just release it on Cydia.
     
  14. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #14
    I think that if they did that apple would be all over them with a lawsuit
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Flash has always sucked, IMO. When I'm going to a website, I want information quickly, not goofy animations that take forever to load and slow everything down.
     
  16. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #16
    Did you read the article or did you just come up with a generic response from the Steve handbook ? :rolleyes:
     
  17. belvdr macrumors 603

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    #17
    I don't like heavy Flash sites either, but if you have a certain set of requirements, it appears Flash may be the way to go.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    Why? It wouldn't be illegal.
     
  19. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

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    #19
    I don't think an apple forum is the best place to discuss flash :D

    Personally i think Flash is great in principle. I just feel it's execution is crap. My browser in general only crashs because of flash. Now that firefox has sandboxed it i don't get as many browser crashs but flash itself still goes under.

    A friend had a computer that wouldn't go to certain websites, with no explaination why. Installing a flash update fixed this but flash never said it needed upgrading.

    HTML5 isn't the best alternative for everything flash does but at least it's an alternative.

    Flash could be, and should be, great. It's just written horribly.
     
  20. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #20
    Especially if they used their own compiler and not xcode ;)
     
  21. Cabbit macrumors 68020

    Cabbit

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    #21
    The Youtube HTML5 Beta is much better when playing back the videos that support it, there smoother and i can use my screen reader even tells me the names of the controls and position of the video.
     
  22. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #22
    Just on a couple of points:

    It's possible to add a challenge/response to the FMS connection between the video playing swf and the FMS server; which interrupts the flow of data and should foil stream rippers. I haven't tried it on any of our streaming solutions, but Adobe recommends it as a way of countering rippers.

    (I wasn't able to view the example link they provided - it's not available in this country - so I couldn't test if they employ that method in that video).

    I believe the point was they wanted the ability to overlay content over the fullscreen video. This could be custom control "HUD"s, Most Popular video lists and the like, perhaps advertising.
     
  23. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #23
    Sadly, they are not going away. More likely: instead of getting Flash animations/intros/adverts, you're going to get HTML5 & Javascript animations/intros/adverts.

    Developers/site owners are going to try to produce the same sites just with different technologies. HTML5 isn't going to save us from bad design.

    Perhaps (hopefully) HTML5 sites will be more resource efficient, but at the same time, it might actually be harder to turn off intrusive adverts as you now can with Flash blockers.
     
  24. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #24
    This discussion should be about HTML5. This is what the original article is about. Of course, leave it to the fanbots to turn it into a negative Flash bashing fest.
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #25
    The only bad thing about flash is the embedded tracking cookies they throw in that you can never seem to easily get rid of.

    The only reason Jobs doesn't like it is because he has no control over how he can charge apps for it.
     

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