YouTuber Compares Apple Pro Display XDR to $43K Sony Reference Monitor, Says It's a 'No Go' for Professional Colorists

Oculus Mentis

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2018
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105
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When Angela Jean Ahrendts became senior vice president of retail at Apple, my fear was that Apple wanted focus on style over substance like LV, Burberry and other fashion brands...
So, if a $5,000 dollar monitor is actually not that good for 'real' pros, Could 'semi-pros' actually spend much, much less than Apple charges for its over styled display?
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 68020
Jul 14, 2015
2,119
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East Coast, United States
Perhaps a direct comparison to the EIZO ColorEdge CG319X would be helpful - https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/cg319x/

FYI - CDW wants $6,158.99 and B&H wants $5,739.00 for this display.

Or the NEC MultiSync PA311D, which is $2,999.00 on B&H. It is also a DCI 4K model like the EIZO - https://www.necdisplay.com/p/pa311d-bk

The hard truth is that SDR content is still going to be the dominant mastering format for a few more years as true HDR is still in flux because technologies that support it for the average consumer are just not affordable at this time. The brightness is not quite there yet, especially for cheaper display/HDTVs. Also, unless the client asks for it, mastering in SDR is faster, cheaper and less resource intensive right now. Hell, other than future proofing content for later distribution, really good 1080p is sufficient for most people. All this conjecture is neat and all, but HDR mastering is still a bit of a moving target workflow-wise for some of the XDR’s target customers. The XDR, whatever its faults, is at least moving the ball forward.
 
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theLedger

macrumors member
Aug 12, 2008
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71
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There is a ton of video being made that's higher than YouTube quality but lower than a full on, studio movie production that requires a better monitor than the typical displays - especially in the corporate world where you're creating high end content for specific applications that may only see a single use or have a short life span. They're not trying to future proof their production like a movie studio.

For these productions, having the Apple monitor in house gives them the quality that they need that saves them from having to rent out a studio that has the $20k-$40K+ monitors. And that's what Apple was driving at.
 

gnomeisland

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
666
333
New York, NY
It used to be I could just say to myself, "well, the next iteration will get it right" but I can no longer trust that Apple will iterate Mac designs. The 2013 Mac Pro was literally never updated during it's six year run. The iMac Pro and Mac mini have gone through similar stretches. Will Apple care enough to update it or just keep it around (at the same price) until it falls into irrelevance and is canceled because, "no one bought it"?
 
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theluggage

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2011
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For these productions, having the Apple monitor in house gives them the quality that they need that saves them from having to rent out a studio that has the $20k-$40K+ monitors.
...but they're probably not worried about HDR (which is the point of those $40k displays) and even then it's probably an insignificant cost c.f. employing someone with the skills to do the job. It's also a case of whether they have to meet a given standard to get the gig.

Thing is, if any sort of professional needs a $20k-$40k bit of kit to do their job they'll get it and earn back the outlay. Equally, if there's a $5000 bit of kit that can <i>absolutely, honestly do the same job</i> then they'll get that instead, because even if you're a pro, money doesn't grow on trees.

The <i>stupid</i> thing to do is to pay $5000 for a bit of "close, but no cigar" kit that <i>can't</i> actually replace the $40k kit any more than a $3000 one can.

Look, the XDR display is the only 6k option in town, is clearly non-rubbish as a creative pro's display and looks really good alongside your Mac. By all means buy it with your money if it floats your boat... but the comparisons with cheaper displays so far suggest that you need to really, really want that extra 1-2k of resolution.
 
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Shirasaki

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May 16, 2015
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This is just yet another example showing Apple is a PR company in its core, rather than a tech company. Or more precisely, a Marketing company that happens to have a decent R&D department and happens to produce some pretty-looking electronics.
 

I7guy

macrumors Core
Nov 30, 2013
21,330
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Gotta be in it to win it
No. It’s called you defending a Apple product at all costs even when it was proved several times in this thread that you were wrong.
Regardless of the interpretation of apples comments, I’m just as much free to defend an Apple product as you are to criticize.

As far as being wrong , wrong about what?That a $6000 monitor is not equal in performance to a $43k monitor.
I love my apple products but I’m not afraid to call Apple out on their BS.

Clearly apple Didn’t do the best job on their homework because their statement about the XDR was wrong.
Why? Can it be used a reference monitor by people looking for the capabilities it offers?
I know a lot of people too. What they buy and use makes no difference in this discussion
It makes a difference if one believes this $6k monitor would be bought instead of a $43k monitor.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors 603
Sep 12, 2017
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1)Yeah, it does, though. And I listed a bunch of other competing monitors coming out over the next few months. And the fact that OLED TV's get thrown into the mix depending on your workflow. By spending the same as 1 XDR you could get any combination of two of those. But your brain simply refuses to address any of that because being wrong is apparently the end of the world.

2) You said 4k displays: "has a pixel density only suitable for a 21.5” monitor. GUI elements would be too large, text would we jaggy and there would be no room for anything else on the display except the 4K frame.". I really did have a good laugh at this. I mean seriously, what a total bunch of nonsensical rubbish. So now you're saying when connecting that monitor to a PC it's totally acceptable, but when connected to a mac pro it's suddenly poor value? What?

As a primarily 2D designer/editor myself I fully understand that any FALD monitor that doesn't allow you to disable FALD is pretty useless for any non-HDR work. I didn't say anyone would want a single 4k monitor over a 6k, I said they would always want two 4k monitors over a single 6k. Because that's exactly what you can get for the price of one XDR. In Europe the comparable monitor I mentioned is about 3000Euro(~$3300USD) and in Australia it's 4399AUD(~$3000USD). A single XDR with stand is $5998USD, and if you want anti-glare it's a truly comical $6998USD.

3) Yeah I can't wait to see where this "game changer" is in 12 months, especially when it's already lagging on certain specs and you consider Apple almost never drops prices on anything for many years, and has a very long track record of letting many of their "pro" products stagnate for several years. I fully expect Apple to be selling this same monitor at the same price in 2025 while everyone else has moved onto something like 50,000 zone FALD or QD-OLED or maybe microLED or who knows what, at a lower price.
1) No, it doesn’t though. You saying you’ve proved it doesn’t make it true. Your list had one 4K monitor that sells for $4,000 as proof that “Fact is it's the most overpriced worst value display in history.” Monitors from the future have nothing to do with this, and OLED TVs? Show me a 32” TV with the performance of the XDR.

Just because something is cheaper doesn’t mean it is a better value. And just because the XDR is more expensive than the 4K monitor you think is so great doesn’t mean that the XDR is overpriced, or that the XDR isn’t a better value.

You haven’t proved that the XDR is the most overpriced or that it’s the worst value display at the present, let alone in history. And who knows what the future will bring. The fact that you won’t sack up and admit your statement is BS makes this entire exchange a waste of time.

2) I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say “So now you're saying when connecting that monitor to a PC it's totally acceptable, but when connected to a mac pro it's suddenly poor value?” This has nothing at all to do with Mac vs PC.

In any case, you don’t seem to understand the first thing about pixel density or resolution. You don’t even seem to realize that with a 6K monitor you can have a 4K image at actual resolution and still have room on the screen for other things. Think editing in Timeline View.

Maybe this will help:

37FC46A5-F850-45CF-8033-10DDBA1C4ED8.jpeg


I don’t have the time or inclination to teach you why a 4K monitor isn’t a better value just because it’s cheaper. Or why pixel density matters with respect to visibility of pixels. You don’t seem to understand the basic concepts.

3) We’re not talking about the future. In the future, I would hope you’ll understand how ridiculous your initial statement was, and how nothing you’ve said since has strengthened your case. But it’s apparent you currently don’t understand that less expensive doesn’t mean greater value, or that more expensive doesn’t mean overpriced. But clearly you’re not in the target market for this monitor, so you don’t understand why pros would find value in it, despite the fact it’s not sufficient for color grading or mastering.

You obviously will need to get in the last word, so feel free to respond with more blather. Have at it, and good luck in your future education.
 

nutmac

macrumors 601
Mar 30, 2004
4,357
2,317
Can't disagree with it and Apple refuses to do what is best for the customer by not offering 27” Thunderbolt 5K display.
It would be one thing if Apple has to pour in significant R&D resource to produce the display.

All they have to do is (1) take discontinued non-retina 27" Thunderbolt Display, (2) put the same 27" LCD panel from iMac, (3) update the ports a bit, and (4) slap higher price tag (than previous $999) to make it worthwhile.

I would, of course, prefer that Apple update the styling just a tiny bit, which they no doubt is doing at some point for iMac. Perhaps the display will be resurrected when redesigned iMac is launched?
 

Duane Martin

macrumors 6502
Oct 15, 2004
356
704
Calgary, Alberta
If you are disappointed, buy a Sony and be happy. It's that simple.
That's really not the point though, is it? Apple compared the XDR Pro to the Sony monitor and though I did understand there was marketing in the claim I hoped it would at least come close. After all, Apple made the comparison. But the XDR Pro does not come close, it is an IPS monitor and the claim of 1 000 000:1 contrast turns out to be complete BS. I don't want to spend $43 000 on a colour correction monitor. I was hoping that the Apple XDR Pro would live up to Apple's claims and be sufficient. It is not. That's why I am disappointed.

It is more complicated than "buy a Sony."
 

V_Man

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2019
346
443
Sorry. Not sorry. They don't "ALWAYS" do their homework. They are spoiled Billionaires at the top of the food chain now, paying themselves ungodly amounts of $ for a company that they do not own. They have grown lazy in software development, and there is a direct correlation between them losing the Pro market and Scott Forestall being fired. They did no such thing as compare this product properly, if they did, they would not make such claims. I imagine there will be a big lawsuit now, as this video shows they are incredibly negligent in their claims.
There won’t be any lawsuits. Come on man. Most of your post has nothing to do with the threads topic.
 

V_Man

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2019
346
443
This is just yet another example showing Apple is a PR company in its core, rather than a tech company. Or more precisely, a Marketing company that happens to have a decent R&D department and happens to produce some pretty-looking electronics.
Been saying that for a while. Greatest PR firm ever. They also happen to develop some cool tech. But Apple is a political oriented business now. Far more concerned with being politicly correct than focusing on tech
 
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UK-MacAddict

macrumors 6502
May 11, 2010
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He has over 150k+ subscribers. Not exactly a 'random' Youtube person. Plus Youtubers do a better job reviewing tech than 'real' reviewers (who are 'real' reviewers anyways?). I find that Youtubers like Dave2D, Linus Tech Tips, MobileTechReview, MrMobile etc do a way better job than those editors at Verge, Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, etc anyways

A lot of reviews from the so called bigger publications gloss over flaws or don’t mention them at all.

As for the XDR display I saw it in the Apple store and I couldn’t tell the difference between that or the iMac 5K screens lol.

I think Apple just wanted to find a way to increase prices by 500% like they’ve done with every other product. They thought we haven’t released a monitor in a while and we can’t sell it for £999-£1500, no we need to find a way to rip our customers off completely. So they came up with the XDR display and pretend its a reference monitor when it’s just a normal monitor but charge £4600 for it without a stand. The stand which costs £999 when it’s really worth £100 and should be included with the monitor within the £4600 pricing.
 
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neander

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2014
175
73
"is just an IPS display with 576 full array local dimming zones that happens to carry Apple's logo and costs $5,000."
I am not sure what Apple expected.. just sprinkle some Apple magic dust on it and it will be another thing completely.
They probably started out with it being something else.. like Dual LCD or miniled but costs got away from them so they scaled it down.
 
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Duane Martin

macrumors 6502
Oct 15, 2004
356
704
Calgary, Alberta
Bad faith post. I asked a question and got this run around. Maybe they did say this and I missed it...but then a link should be easy. Right? Because I can’t find it.
It is in the video embedded in the article you are commenting on. Watch the video. It could not be any easier than that. If you can make a comment you can click on the video in the article you are commenting on.

Come on, people.
 
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briloronmacrumo

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2008
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The Cupertino hubris knows very few limits.
Agreed. Apple's, IMO, disingenuous decision( to misrepresent the XDR compared to a reference monitor ) looks self-defeating when they know:
1. The folks buying the MacPro and XDR are the same group that will easily debunk Apple's claim to the reference monitor.
2. After the claim is debunked, future marketing claims will have slightly less credibility.

Both of these are the antithesis of building customer trust and loyalty.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Core
Nov 30, 2013
21,330
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Gotta be in it to win it
It is in the video embedded in the article you are commenting on. Watch the video. It could not be any easier than that. If you can make a comment you can click on the video in the article you are commenting on.

Come on, people.
I watched the video. My takeaway he doesn’t like the moniker reference as he says it’s just another ips display. Maybe yes for the masses maybe no. It falls short when comparing to a monitor that costs $37k more.

We’ve all seen how the world can be wrong when it comes to apples products.
 

fathergll

macrumors 65816
Sep 3, 2014
1,456
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Watch any random episode on his channel, and you'll see that he knows his stuff. I've learned a ton about monitors and TV calibration from him. Seriously, next time you want to buy a TV, see if he has a review or comparison video on it. It's hard find a more thorough and knowledgable reviewer anywhere else besides, say, rtings.com. Also, his dry wit is fantastic.

Seriously. This isn't some iJustine video reviewing the monitor. This guy is ISF certified and charges $400 for calibrations. His reviews are more detailed than any i've seen in my life. Runs circles around something you see from RTings which is reviews for the laymen.
 
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LDN

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2014
99
195
Random person on YouTube. Let’s hold of for real reviews.
Vincent is a professional TV calibrator and expert in all things display technology. He is not a 'random person' on YouTube. He is probably the best source for information on displays on YouTube.
 
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TonyRS

macrumors member
Mar 1, 2017
43
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Been saying that for a while. Greatest PR firm ever. They also happen to develop some cool tech. But Apple is a political oriented business now. Far more concerned with being politicly correct than focusing on tech
Only if being "politically correct" will drive shareholder value. If you disagree, you don't know how public companies are run.
 

ksec

macrumors 65816
Dec 23, 2015
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...but in the case of displays, something is either a "reference display" or it isn't. "90% as good as a reference display" is like saying someone is "90% pregnant". If the Film/TV industry ever come to the consensus that the XDR is good enough to be a reference display then a reference display it will be.
Exactly, like I said before, with an analogy to the car, It is either a F1 or it isn't. Pro XDR is a beautiful display, it just isn't a reference.
 

ksec

macrumors 65816
Dec 23, 2015
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my point here is that there is a difference between luxury goods used by consumers and luxury goods used by professionals. If you're at the top 1%, yes, a Ferrari is nice to have, similar to a luxury watch or other goods that are not purchased by the 99% of us. However, I doubt many rich people are investing in Sony Reference monitors to watch TV on. They are more likely to buy something like that LG OLED that rolls into the stand. So, yes, I was struggling to understand the value of something from a business perspective, didn't seem that relevant. A few others were able to chime in and mention that it may be relevant when these films are shot in professionally calibrated cinemas, which I can see making a bit of sense.

Your Pantone Reference Colors are a better example for your argument as it is something marketed towards working professionals. I don't think rich people are buying them just for fun when choosing which color to paint their walls at home, but I'm sure someone is benefiting from them in a business somewhere.
If you understand the Pantone Reference, the you should understand the reference monitor. Why would you want a close to $100K Red Camera [1] when a future $1K Samsung Smartphone can shoot 8K?
Even the handle of the Red Camera cost as much as an iPhone 11. And it is only a piece of plastic.

For Consumer, easy to digest video, you can check out Linus Tech on 8K Red Camera that is are easier to understand. Corridor Crew is another one with focus on real world professional VFX, there was another one on real Hollywood production Channel which I cant remember it at the moment. But you will open into a whole new world where million dollars are nothing in those categories.


[1] https://www.red.com
 
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