I used to work at a school as an administrator and I can tell you these ridiculous situations are often the result of teachers and/or administrative staff who are bored with life and love drama. They get to get up on a soapbox and brag about how they just want to protect the children and have probably watched Bowling for Columbine far too many times. They are often propped up by equally nutty parents who are paranoid of just about everything. These types live in their own worlds however, and often fail to realize how the application of their policies might be perceived outside the school itself. I'm guessing there is a teacher and principal at the heart of this that is loving the attention.
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Zero Tolerance or Zero Common Sense?
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See how much they love the attention when it comes in the form of a subpoena. Where's a civil liberties union when you actually need one?
They're out west banning cemetery crosses!
Zero tolerance rules in schools are insane; teachers are principals are generally cowards that would rather punish students than use common sense! Shows how stupid our educational system has become!
The implement in question was a cub scout's camping utensil set in pocket knife form. I would have been awfully enamored of such a prize when I was six, and it would have been difficult to stop me taking it in the bath with me much less to school. I would not have gotten into trouble, of course. I carried around a real pocket knife for most of my school days and nobody cared. Most guys did.
Regardless, the item in question is not a weapon. It is a tool. If we are to ban all things that could conceivably be used as weapons, then good luck with your pencil-free school. If we are to criminalize bringing a tool into a public school, then whoever hired the school administrators involved in this case is going away for life.
Regardless, the item in question is not a weapon. It is a tool. If we are to ban all things that could conceivably be used as weapons, then good luck with your pencil-free school. If we are to criminalize bringing a tool into a public school, then whoever hired the school administrators involved in this case is going away for life.
I read in the times the parents were home schooling him while this thing was settled. I think that if this is the kind of school in their area they should either move or switch to home schooling.
I mean, a boy scout proudly participating in show and tell in a public school? A few decades ago people called that the American Dream.
And this?
So they find the one kid in America who uses school seriously and they crucify him.
I mean, a boy scout proudly participating in show and tell in a public school? A few decades ago people called that the American Dream.
And this?
So they find the one kid in America who uses school seriously and they crucify him.
We should cut to the chase, Lawyers are to blame and all it takes is one stupid kid hurting another and the school administration is unprotected from 1 big law suite maybe worth millions.
So they inact a dumb rule/law to protect themselves and this is the result.
So whats next? having 6 year olds walking through metal detectors everyday?
Mindless bureaucracy. How about a rule that allows for discretion?
So they inact a dumb rule/law to protect themselves and this is the result.
So whats next? having 6 year olds walking through metal detectors everyday?
Mindless bureaucracy. How about a rule that allows for discretion?
Who are you going to give the powers of discretion to? I promise you whoever it is will be crucified. Look at police officers, there are many laws where the police have discretion as to how they want to proceed, and when's the last time you met someone who likes them?
And the police state grows, and grows and grows, a lawyers dream, employing lawyers, judges,police,courts,prisons, parole officers, etc etc. Just make everything illegal or wrong. Isnt that the real goal of this big business?
If you understood anything about business you would understand the last thing businesses want is for everything to be illegal. Businesses hate laws and hate hiring lawyers; lawyers cost a lot, businesses would much rather not have anything to do with them.
This is pretty ridiculous. Its a eating utensil, not a knife. What is next? Maybe suspending kids for bringing protractors? Those have awfully sharp points sometimes.
So in watching the news tonight it sounds like the school board met on this (with a huge public turn out protesting this punishment) and agreed to amend the rules to not include kindergarten or 1st grade in the zero tolerance policy.
They also apparently agreed to allow teacher discretion with implementing the rules. A 45 day suspension. Crazy. He's free to go to school tomorrow.
Sorry, no linky.
They also apparently agreed to allow teacher discretion with implementing the rules.
A 45 day suspension. Crazy. He's free to go to school tomorrow.Sorry, no linky.
Best thing you can do is to try and prepare your kids yourself, teach them how things are and how to behave.
Also, stand up for them! I had a co-worker who's son was going to be expelled for fighting - after getting jumped from behind by a bully (and winning I might add
That would have been nice when I was in school, I can recall several occasions I was arrested for my acts of self defense--lesson here, when you get in a fight in a hick town school and win cousins come out of the wood work gunning for you and even the cops they are inbred to--you cant win in a town where all the tards are related.
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I have zero tolerance for zero common sense.
I have zero tolerance for zero common sense.
This is what should have happened all along.So in watching the news tonight it sounds like the school board met on this (with a huge public turn out protesting this punishment) and agreed to amend the rules to not include kindergarten or 1st grade in the zero tolerance policy.
They also apparently agreed to allow teacher discretion with implementing the rules.
Sorry, no linky.
Im sure the Beauracrats will be upset that the police state lost another customer.
But wait we do have the Fat police and Health insurance police on the horizon, soon they will be telling little johnny what he can and cant eat not just what kind of tool he has to use to shovel it into his mouth.
I have zero tolerance for zero-tolerance. I want to believe it was invented by a bunch of lazy hypocrites, but sadly, I think it was invented by normal people who let themselves be fooled into believing that such a simple concept is actually fair or a good idea.
I'm glad that the suspension was lifted. However, it never should have come to this.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565640,00.html?test=latestnews
FoxNews.com said:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565640,00.html?test=latestnews
To me, school boards and administrators are caught in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. One of the main functions of zero-tolerance policies is to eliminate subjectivity (and bias) from disciplinary actions.
Let's suppose there's no ZT policy in place and the principal is the sole decider of how to discipline the children. Suppose your child and another one committed the same infraction. How would you feel if your child was disciplined harshly while another child was not disciplined at all? Now suppose that you are not friendly with the principal, but the other child's parents are tight with him?
Wouldn't you want justice? Wouldn't you want to fight for your child? Wouldn't you "lawyer up"?
By having a ZT policy, you eliminate the subjectivity and bias that can be involved in these types of decisions.
I do agree that ZT policies can go overboard, but to me, that's a function of our litigious society. People are quick to sue for every little thing these days.
I've read some stuff regarding ZT policies where the administrators have discretion on the punishment. The stats show that minority children are less likely to recieve lesser punishment than non-minorities when the admins have discretion.
To me, I say the parents were right in fighting the penalty, but not the ruling. Zach should be punished for breaking a rule ... which he did. The 45-days in reform school is a little harsh. In the end, the 3 days (or 5 in some reports) is probably sufficient. Zach has learned a harsh life lesson here ... not everything is fair. Also, his parents should use this opportunity to show Zach that people need to take responsibility for their actions, but they still need to fight for what's fair.
Let's suppose there's no ZT policy in place and the principal is the sole decider of how to discipline the children. Suppose your child and another one committed the same infraction. How would you feel if your child was disciplined harshly while another child was not disciplined at all? Now suppose that you are not friendly with the principal, but the other child's parents are tight with him?
Wouldn't you want justice? Wouldn't you want to fight for your child? Wouldn't you "lawyer up"?
By having a ZT policy, you eliminate the subjectivity and bias that can be involved in these types of decisions.
I do agree that ZT policies can go overboard, but to me, that's a function of our litigious society. People are quick to sue for every little thing these days.
I've read some stuff regarding ZT policies where the administrators have discretion on the punishment. The stats show that minority children are less likely to recieve lesser punishment than non-minorities when the admins have discretion.
To me, I say the parents were right in fighting the penalty, but not the ruling. Zach should be punished for breaking a rule ... which he did. The 45-days in reform school is a little harsh. In the end, the 3 days (or 5 in some reports) is probably sufficient. Zach has learned a harsh life lesson here ... not everything is fair. Also, his parents should use this opportunity to show Zach that people need to take responsibility for their actions, but they still need to fight for what's fair.
The sad part is ftaok is right. the ZT policies going as far as they do is because people are way WAY to sue happy these days. They sue and cry discrimination and even when because one kid got a different treatment.
The problem with ZT is it tries to be a one size fits all and that is just to protect against being sued because the school can point to its rules and show that there is no difference between kids same punishment for everyone.
I understand and agree with the concept behind zero Tolerance but as the same time it takes making good judgments and work out what works best for the kids. Pinciple here I think was damn either way. Dont punish the kid to the policy and he gets in trouble. Punish the kid and get in trouble. How I think this should of been handled is confiscate the eating tool, have to talk with the principle and a phone call to parents and require the parents come pick up the eating tool. The message is sent not to have it come back and warn the punishment next time will be very harsh.
Everyone general would be ok with it and chance are never would be repeated again.
The problem with ZT is it tries to be a one size fits all and that is just to protect against being sued because the school can point to its rules and show that there is no difference between kids same punishment for everyone.
I understand and agree with the concept behind zero Tolerance but as the same time it takes making good judgments and work out what works best for the kids. Pinciple here I think was damn either way. Dont punish the kid to the policy and he gets in trouble. Punish the kid and get in trouble. How I think this should of been handled is confiscate the eating tool, have to talk with the principle and a phone call to parents and require the parents come pick up the eating tool. The message is sent not to have it come back and warn the punishment next time will be very harsh.
Everyone general would be ok with it and chance are never would be repeated again.
I think the kid should fry. I mean look at him. It's obvious beyond reproach that he's Al Queda in training. I mean, a cute little kid that could be a double agent in a flash. He is going to Scouts, after all.
Zero tolerance means zero responsibility on the part of the administration. How is this for ****ing stupid. My youngest stepdaughter almost got suspended, she did get sent home, for having Pixie Sticks for lunch. Anyone old enough to remember Pixie Sticks? The teachers said it was crack cocaine. I told the school I was going to humiliate their absolute stupidity in the media if they expelled her. She wound up going back.
Yeah, and the funny part of it was that she actually told them that crack cocaine was rocks and not powder. That was great!