iPhone 11 Pro Zoom lens: literally pointless!

[mavis]

So I posted this in the troubleshooting forum but no one has had any insights or suggestions, so I thought I'd mention it here.

With the zoom lens being one of the main distinguishing features of the 11 Pro and Pro Max, compared to the iPhone 11, I'm finding it odd that the lens isn't being used by the camera app, literally - at all.

I recorded that video to show that, even with a piece of white electrical tape covering the zoom lens, the phone still cycles between 1x and 2x zoom (and higher than 2x, using the wheel) ... meaning that it's not using the zoom lens at all. It's all digital zoom. Is this the expected behavior? I can't believe I'm the first one to notice this ... 🧐

edit: I've figured out the problem, thanks to a comment JPack made, below - thanks dude. It's not the light levels, as everyone seems to think, nor is it the fact that the lens was taped (the camera system isn't that intelligent, unfortunately) ... rather, it's the distance to the subject. In the video below, you can see the phone repeatedly switching between actual 2x optical zoom and a cropped wide shot (digital zoom) as I move towards/away from the foreground guitar. The issue of Night Mode is completely separate, but yeah - I've also discovered in my testing that Night Mode does NOT work with the telephoto lens - 2x zoom in Night Mode is just digital zoom (cropped shots) which is easy to test - just switch to 2x zoom when shooting in Night Mode, and cover the telephoto lens with your finger.

Again, thanks to everyone for helping to solve this.

 

[chabig]

It's all digital zoom. Is this the expected behavior?

Of course it is. The camera can't see when the zoom lens is covered with electrical tape, so digital zoom is the only choice.

 

[JPack]

This is a known issue.

The telephoto sensor requires great amounts of light. When you’re taking a photo indoors or on a cloudy day, there’s insufficient light. The sensor on the regular lens is more sensitive to light. As a result, the iPhone crops the image using the main sensor.

This issue comes up regularly on threads debating whether to purchase the iPhone 11 or iPhone 11 Pro.

 

[UBS28]

Can you do the same test but then covering the main lens with tape and then try zoom 2X?

The big lens should then be used. If not, then there is a bug.

 

[UBS28]

Yeah, there is a bug. I did the following test.
1. Covered the main lens
2. Video:

a. 0.5 x work as expected​

b. 1x is black like expected​

c. 2x works as expected​

3. Photo:

a. 0.5x works as expected​

b. 1x is black like expected​

c. 2x is black, which is not expected​

​

​

So if you take Photo's, the iPhone 11 = iPhone 11 Pro.

Now the big question is if this is a hardware issue.
[automerge]1577003681[/automerge]

This is a known issue.

The telephoto sensor requires great amounts of light. When you’re taking a photo indoors or on a cloudy day, there’s insufficient light. The sensor on the regular lens is more sensitive to light. As a result, the iPhone crops the image using the main sensor.

This issue comes up regularly on threads debating whether to purchase the iPhone 11 or iPhone 11 Pro.

I tested this while trying to take a picture of my MacBook Pro display on max brightness. So that rules out the lack of the light causing it.

 

[Tsepz]

So I posted this in the troubleshooting forum but no one has had any insights or suggestions, so I thought I'd mention it here.

With the zoom lens being one of the main distinguishing features of the 11 Pro and Pro Max, compared to the iPhone 11, I'm finding it odd that the lens isn't being used by the camera app, literally - at all.

I recorded that video to show that, even with a piece of white electrical tape covering the zoom lens, the phone still cycles between 1x and 2x zoom (and higher than 2x, using the wheel) ... meaning that it's not using the zoom lens at all. It's all digital zoom. Is this the expected behavior? I can't believe I'm the first one to notice this ...

The phone picks up the lense that has nothing/low light in it and simply defaults to Zoom with the main lense which can get more light.

On some Androids you will hit zoom and it will momentarily go to the zoom lense then realise it’s blocked/low light and then default back to the main lense and go digital.

It’s working as it should.

Remember with the iPhones and Depp Fusion the phone is constantly monitoring all lenses so it knows which is best to be used, that’s the beauty of modern sensors coupled with Machine Learning and AI, the phone can decide in milliseconds which lense is best to be used in a certain scene.

 

[UBS28]

The phone picks up the lense that has nothing in it and simply defaults to Zoom.

On some Androids you will hit zoom and it will momentarily go to the blocked Zoom lense then realise it’s blocked and then default back to the main lense and go digital.

It’s working as it should.

It does not work as it should. If I block the main lens (1X), it is blocked on both 1X and 2X.


The expected behavior if the main lens is blocked is:
0.5X works
1X is black
2X works.

However what I get is:
0.5X works
1X is black
2X is black

In video mode I do get the expected behavior.

 

[JPack]

I tested this while trying to take a picture of my MacBook Pro display on max brightness. So that rules out the lack of the light causing it.

The telephoto lens also has a long minimum focus distance. To enable it, you need a bright scene (outdoors) and you can’t be shooting a small object like a MacBook.

This isn’t a bug. This behavior has been noted in reviews since the iPhone 7 Plus. While it’s improved over the years, the limitation comes down to hardware.

For video, the iPhone will use the telephoto lens more often because the camera app is less concerned about image noise when recording video.

The iPhone 11 Pro camera is still a powerful option for photos and videos

A deep dive into the hardware, settings, features, and more on the iPhone 11 Pro camera, the best smartphone camera around—at least for now.

www.popsci.com

 

[vemac575]

If that is a fact, it pretty much takes away any good reason for buying the phone.

 

[JPack]

It does not work as it should. If I block the main lens (1X), it is blocked on both 1X and 2X.


The expected behavior if the main lens is blocked is:
0.5X works
1X is black
2X works.

However what I get is:
0.5X works
1X is black
2X is black

In video mode I do get the expected behavior.

That is expected behavior for taking photos.

If you block the main lens, the iPhone assumes a dark scene and will not attempt to use the telephoto lens. The main lens is superior for dark scenes and is the only lens that works with Night Mode.

In video, the iPhone is less concerned about image noise and will use the telephoto.
[automerge]1577008428[/automerge]

If that is a fact, it pretty much takes away any good reason for buying the phone.

This behavior has been noted since iPhone 7 Plus. It should be nothing new or surprising. There’s a reason why many reviewers suggest the iPhone 11 is enough for most people.

The telephoto lens has some use - either outdoors shooting a bright scene focused on an object at a moderate distance. Or for video recording, where the iPhone cares less about noise.

 

[UBS28]

I must say that the iPhone 11 is a better deal than I realized indeed.

 

[mavis]

That is expected behavior for taking photos.

If you block the main lens, the iPhone assumes a dark scene and will not attempt to use the telephoto lens. The main lens is superior for dark scenes and is the only lens that works with Night Mode.

In video, the iPhone is less concerned about image noise and will use the telephoto.
[automerge]1577008428[/automerge]


This behavior has been noted since iPhone 7 Plus. It should be nothing new or surprising. There’s a reason why many reviewers suggest the iPhone 11 is enough for most people.

The telephoto lens has some use - either outdoors shooting a bright scene focused on an object at a moderate distance. Or for video recording, where the iPhone cares less about noise.

Actually, you are incorrect - the exact opposite of what you're saying is happening here. 😉

In further testing, I found that the zoom lens is only used when lighting conditions worsen, not in good lighting as you suggest. To test this, I again placed a piece of tape over the zoom lens, and moved towards/away from a light source (a frosted glass window) ... when I was farther from the window (the scene was darker) the tape was visible (meaning, the zoom lens was in use) but I approached the window and it grew brighter, the phone switched to the wide lens every time, despite being in 2x zoom mode.

Something is definitely broken, here. Hopefully it's just software, but yeah - the zoom lens is literally worthless in decent light - it is unused unless lighting conditions degrade.
[automerge]1577011113[/automerge]

The telephoto lens also has a long minimum focus distance. To enable it, you need a bright scene (outdoors) and you can’t be shooting a small object like a MacBook.

This isn’t a bug. This behavior has been noted in reviews since the iPhone 7 Plus. While it’s improved over the years, the limitation comes down to hardware.

For video, the iPhone will use the telephoto lens more often because the camera app is less concerned about image noise when recording video.

The iPhone 11 Pro camera is still a powerful option for photos and videos

A deep dive into the hardware, settings, features, and more on the iPhone 11 Pro camera, the best smartphone camera around—at least for now.

www.popsci.com

See my second video, above. The zoom lens is only being used in DARK conditions on my iPhone 11 Pro Max, which is exactly the opposite of what should be happening (by most reasonable conclusions) ...

 

[FlyingDutch]

So I posted this in the troubleshooting forum but no one has had any insights or suggestions, so I thought I'd mention it here.

With the zoom lens being one of the main distinguishing features of the 11 Pro and Pro Max, compared to the iPhone 11, I'm finding it odd that the lens isn't being used by the camera app, literally - at all.

I recorded that video to show that, even with a piece of white electrical tape covering the zoom lens, the phone still cycles between 1x and 2x zoom (and higher than 2x, using the wheel) ... meaning that it's not using the zoom lens at all. It's all digital zoom. Is this the expected behavior? I can't believe I'm the first one to notice this ... 🧐

It is the system working as designed. If the light is too low (in this case no light at all since you covered the lens) the phone switched to the main lens doing digital zoom.
[automerge]1577011925[/automerge]

Yeah, there is a bug. I did the following test.
1. Covered the main lens
2. Video:

a. 0.5 x work as expected​

b. 1x is black like expected​

c. 2x works as expected​

3. Photo:

a. 0.5x works as expected​

b. 1x is black like expected​

c. 2x is black, which is not expected​

​

​

So if you take Photo's, the iPhone 11 = iPhone 11 Pro.

Now the big question is if this is a hardware issue.

Issue ??? Which issue ???
You are messing up with the camera, covering the main lens.
The situation is quite clear: the 2X sensor sits behind a less fast lens (F/2.0) and it works only if the software detects enough light to take “good shots”.

 

[mavis]

It is the system working as designed. If the light is too low (in this case no light at all since you covered the lens) the phone switched to the main lens doing digital zoom.

No, that's not at all what happened; try watching the second video again. You can clearly see it switch to the covered lens despite it being too dark. In fact, this happened as the scene was darkening, so the lack of lighting seems to be completely irrelevant for whatever logic is causing this behavior.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Actually, you are incorrect - the exact opposite of what you're saying is happening here. 😉

In further testing, I found that the zoom lens is only used when lighting conditions worsen, not in good lighting as you suggest. To test this, I again placed a piece of tape over the zoom lens, and moved towards/away from a light source (a frosted glass window) ... when I was farther from the window (the scene was darker) the tape was visible (meaning, the zoom lens was in use) but I approached the window and it grew brighter, the phone switched to the wide lens every time, despite being in 2x zoom mode.

Something is definitely broken, here. Hopefully it's just software, but yeah - the zoom lens is literally worthless in decent light - it is unused unless lighting conditions degrade.
[automerge]1577011113[/automerge]

See my second video, above. The zoom lens is only being used in DARK conditions on my iPhone 11 Pro Max, which is exactly the opposite of what should be happening (by most reasonable conclusions) ...

You are getting conclusions based on wrong assumptions about how the phone measures the light...
I would suggest stop messing with camera sensors.

The rationale behind the “dual camera system” (the ultra wide is a separate system) is quite clear: if the phone detects enough light it uses the 2X F/2.0 lens, otherwise it uses the faster 1X F/1.8 lens.

 

[mavis]

The telephoto lens also has a long minimum focus distance. To enable it, you need a bright scene (outdoors) and you can’t be shooting a small object like a MacBook.

Well, I think you were onto something with the first part of that statement. Try holding your finger over the zoom lens, in 2x optical zoom mode, and pointing the iPhone at something <2ft away. You'll still see the subject, but as soon as you move back to 2-3ft away, with your finger still covering the zoom lens, it'll suddenly go dark - has nothing to do with the light (or lack thereof) as everyone here keeps saying, but rather, the focal distance. Apparently the zoom lens only works from >2ft ... so, good call! Mystery solved.

Thanks, dude.
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You are getting conclusions based on wrong assumptions about how the phone measures the light...
I would suggest stop messing with camera sensors.

The rationale behind the “dual camera system” (the ultra wide is a separate system) is quite clear: if the phone detects enough light it uses the 2X F/2.0 lens, otherwise it uses the faster 1X F/1.8 lens.

Actually, it has nothing to do with the amount of light - the zoom lens apparently only works at distances greater than 2ft. 😬

 

[mavis]

It seems I've uncovered another interesting thing here - contrary to the iPhone 11 Pro reviews I've read (including the one here on MacRumors), Night Mode does NOT work with the zoom lens. Easy to test, too - hold your finger over the zoom lens and try to take a picture in the dark, at 2x zoom. It will work just fine, despite your finger being in the way. 🤔

 

[coffeeplease]

Is there a good way to tell if using the 2x camera is the telephoto or a cropped wide angle, other than covering the telephoto lens? I'd also like to know if I can figure this out from photos I've already taken at 2x. Does this also mean portraits at 2x without bright lighting conditions will also be cropped wide angle photos?

 

[808drums]

So I posted this in the troubleshooting forum but no one has had any insights or suggestions, so I thought I'd mention it here.

With the zoom lens being one of the main distinguishing features of the 11 Pro and Pro Max, compared to the iPhone 11, I'm finding it odd that the lens isn't being used by the camera app, literally - at all.

I recorded that video to show that, even with a piece of white electrical tape covering the zoom lens, the phone still cycles between 1x and 2x zoom (and higher than 2x, using the wheel) ... meaning that it's not using the zoom lens at all. It's all digital zoom. Is this the expected behavior? I can't believe I'm the first one to notice this ...

The phone is not using the telephoto camera because you covered it.

 

[JPack]

Is there a good way to tell if using the 2x camera is the telephoto or a cropped wide angle, other than covering the telephoto lens? I'd also like to know if I can figure this out from photos I've already taken at 2x. Does this also mean portraits at 2x without bright lighting conditions will also be cropped wide angle photos?

You can tell by looking at the focal length field in the EXIF data for each image.

Focal length:

• 4.25mm = wide
• 6mm = telephoto
• 1.54mm = ultra wide

 

[mavis]

The phone is not using the telephoto camera because you covered it.

Nope, it's not that intelligent. It'll use the telephoto lens, even with your finger over it, as long as you're more than 2ft from your subject and the lighting is better than Night Mode level.

 

[burgman]

In conclusion, the camera system is smarter than a guy with tape, got it.

 

[mavis]

In conclusion, the camera system is smarter than a guy with tape, got it.

Funny.

Also, you're welcome. I for one am glad I now know that when I'm trying to take a picture of a document, for example, without getting close enough that the phone's shadow is visible, using 2x zoom doesn't actually use the zoom lens but simply/deceptively crops the wide lens' shot. Or that when I'm taking a picture at night and the Night Mode indicator pops up, it means that I'm stuck with the wide lens, because all the reviews got it wrong and the zoom lens does NOT work in Night Mode. If only one of them had had a piece of tape available, right? Anyway, you're welcome. You now know more about the (significant, I'd say) limitations of your camera.

 

[coffeeplease]

You can tell by looking at the focal length field in the EXIF data for each image.

Focal length:

• 4.25mm = wide
• 6mm = telephoto
• 1.54mm = ultra wide

This would require exporting to a computer right? Or do you have a recommended app that can do this on the phone?

 

[mavis]

This would require exporting to a computer right? Or do you have a recommended app that can do this on the phone?

I use Metapho. It can be used as a standalone app (with a photo browser and of course, metadata/EXIF reader) but is also accessible via the share sheet. Another cool thing about Metapho is that it tells you when Deep Fusion has been used.