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Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

Isn't it ironic

Wow - There are a lot of of knee jerk reactions to this issue. It actually does seem that Apple has some good reasons for their actions. I know this has been said a million times but the "market" will decide the ultimate fate of the companies involved.

These blogers who throw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming about Apple not "behaving" and then they swear off Mac products are behaving worse than spoiled children!

Ironic, don't you think?
 
Apple should let the output of Flash app exported via CS5 stand for it self. If the source generated is acceptable under the rules imposed by the Objective-C screening process, so be it, let the app through.

The only issue that I see is if Apple tells a Flash developer that the code needs to be modified, they wont have the ability to comply without Adobe's assistance. This alone could lead to a PR nightmare.
 
MacRumors said:
Lee Brimelow, a "platform evangelist" for Adobe shares his thoughts (via TiPb) on his semi-official TheFlashBlog, referring to Apple's decision as a slap in the face to developers.An additional claim that "Apple has timed this purposely to hurt sales of CS5" has been redacted from Brimelow's blog entry at the request of Adobe, but not before it was captured by TiPb. Adobe's Creative Suite 5, of which Flash Professional CS5 will be a part, is scheduled for introduction next Monday.

Brimelow notes that he has decided to boycott Apple products "until there is a leadership change over there" and states in no uncertain terms how he feels about the situation.
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Dude needs to grow up.

FWIW, I'm still buying a copy of Photoshop CS5 on Monday.
 
I am a fan of Apple products. But I have to say both companies are acting pretty childish over this dispute. Even Steve Jobs made a quick jab over Flash during the iPhone OS 4.0 keynote. So what's next on Apple's attack plans after Adobe Flash... Java? Developers should be able to use whatever tools they deem necessary to complete their projects.

One question though, aside from being a resource hog. Has Flash been a gateway to malware being installed on End User's computers? Could that be some reasoning over this? I think we deserve better explanation than just HTML5 is the future of the internet. :confused:
 
If Adobe were smart they'd cut out all Mac development and just do 100% of their development software on Windows. The Mac users who need to develop can just run the tools in a Windows VM.
 
miles01110 said:
If I was Adobe I'd be removing Mr. Brimelow as an "official representative of Adobe." It's one thing to be unhappy, it's another to go on a childish rant capped off with a "go screw yourself." Someone hasn't graduated from high school yet...
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I'm THRILLED someone is telling it like it is for once. It's just a matter of time before Apple catches the attention of the Justice Department and they SHOULD catch their attention as everything they've been doing for years now is 100% ANTI-COMPETITIVE to a "T". Some of us WANT things like Firefox for the iPad and frankly feel Steve has no right to dictate what software we can or cannot have, let alone monopolize the sales/distribution market for those applications and force developers to pay whatever they ask to develop for it period (and then reject them willy-nilly on a whim if they don't want to carry it). We need the rule of law in this country to start defining what companies can and cannot do for ALL publicly sold platforms. It wasn't right when Microsoft forced licensing fees for hardware (even if Windows was not included on it) and it's not right for Apple to be able to dictate entire software markets for products based on what makes them the most money. They're manipulating multiple markets (hardware, software, phones, store-front distribution systems) to make sure they control it all within the confines of their hardware.

Imagine if Microsoft started demanding that only Dell could make PCs to run Windows and no one else and that all software had to be purchased online and approved by Microsoft before installing it and that they get 30% of all the money from all Windows software sales on the planet. Do you seriously think for ONE MINUTE they'd get away with that? How much you want to bet that they might start to try using Apple as precedent as with the Psystar case versus Xbox flash memory? Give me a break. Apple isn't some two-bit garage operation anymore. They should have to compete on a market-by-market basis like everyone else in this world. In the end, it is the consumer that suffers. Any nonsense about multi-tasking is just that, complete nonsense. Half the phones and iPod Touches out there won't multi-task under 4.0 anyway and that should be the user's choice what to run and how it affects things anyway, not Steve's choice.
 
"Go screw yourself Apple"

Oh this is TOO funny. Adobe (Market Cap $18 billion) will boycott Apple products (Market Cap $218 billion)?

Maybe Jobs will do a hostile take-over of Adobe and eliminate those pesky "platform evangelists". Just think, nobody could complain about lack of Flash support on the iPhone since Flash would cease to exist.

Whatever went wrong between Adobe and Apple? This is starting to sound personal.

Maybe Microsoft (Market Cap $252 billion) will sleep easier at night if Apple becomes the new "evil empire"?
 
Yeah and I have decided to boycott Adobe products "until there is a leadership change over there" as well. It goes both ways Adobe, you can go screw yourselves too. :rolleyes:
 
You are missing it

It is not about using a particular language/development environment. Flash is NOT a language, rather a scripting environment. Call it what you will, there is a virtual machine that must use the scripts and BUILD an application. It will either include a standard virtual machine and code, or will generate code from how the virtual machine runs. The end results is the same: a bloated tool creates bloated apps.

So it makes perfect sense. iPhone/iPad/iPod touch are highly optimized devices running a very elegant and in some ways rich user environment. Flash and other developers (I am looking at you MS) have gotten away with bloatware by counting on faster processors and more RAM. Those of us who have programmed a while and understand limited resources are HORRIFIED by what passes as programming these days.

So I am not a fanboy, just a professional developer for many years and I for one completely understand Apple's stand. Let's have a smart conversation about this, rather than name call. Apple honestly couldn't care what happens to Adobe, but they do care of the iPhone platform becomes garbage thanks to bad tools.

bspero said:
Hey all,
I think people are not getting what this means. It is not about running Flash on the iPhone. Nebula, Baron, etc. are talking about a totally different issue. This is about using the Flash IDE to build native iPhone applications. Not Flash running in a browser. It's about mandating that you use certain development tools to create a product. Like, mandating that somebody use the Flash IDE to create .swfs or something. I can't deny that there may be some technical reason behind this that we don't know about, but with CS5 planned for a demo on Monday, it really is just pissing on Adobe. Rather than coordinating with them to help more people build applications, they are blindsiding them and deliberately derailing plans for their new CS5 suite. It really does suck.
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One thing people should look at regarding wrappers and abstraction layers to native programming is cider games from transgamming. Which genrally have poor performance on the Mac compared to a native port. I can only imagine how crappy the performance would be on a mobile application. Not to mention the amount of shear crap flash games that would be dumped into the app store with little thought given to UI.

If developers use Apples FREE development tools they are able to produce a much better product in the end.
 
wow

I'm a huge Apple fan. (awaiting the new macbook) But coming here sometimes feels like entering a cult. How could you blame Adobe for this? They've done everything they could to make Flash work better on Mac. The current beta version fixes the issue of the plugin being a CPU hog. (Read the Anandtech analysis) The reason behind this move, it seems to me, is something Apple does not want to disclose.

The unfortunate thing here is that Apple is not taking into consideration (maybe it is but does not care) the online community that have upgraded to Flash. Almost all the great sites today use Flash. And although it initially seems that the online community will have to just switch to HTML5 for video playback, it does not take into account Flex applications (built on Flash) which have become prevalent in the corporate and development world in the recent years. The company that I work for uses Flex apps heavily, including for stock trading. (I work for an investment bank).

I think Apple is missing a great opportunity here. And as a consequence many might transition to the competitive google platform. some might see that as laughable, but add some UI/design guys to their teams and google can be huge threat.

Your thoughts?
 
Personally, I really, really, hate Flash. It seems to me that only over complicated websites, YouTube and time waster games use it. It slows my 1.2ghz G4 to a crawl and slows my newer unibody Pro down considerably. Good riddance. I hope Apple succeeds in their quest.
 
whitingrj said:
Hehe, Microsoft is everyone's best friend at the moment!
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Microsoft is as evil as it ever was, but they've gotten much smoother at their PR efforts. You have to dig to see the rotten tricks they are pulling around the world, but if you do you'll see they haven't changed. They are nobody's friend.
 
Augure said:
most of ads and tons of websites are in Flash
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exactly.

if you made your site with flash (so it REQUIRES flash), you are a moron. and should be stopped. flash sites are always a bad idea.

and... i'm sure people are really clamoring for all those flash ads they are missing. so, so necessary to the web.

This is a frightening move that has no rational defense other than wanting tyrannical control over developers and more importantly, wanting to use developers as pawns in their crusade against Adobe.
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well, at least you aren't overstating your case, or resorting to hyperbole.

learn some objective-c and stop trying to take shortcuts, you ninnies. :p

though for whatever reason, apple loves a giant developer learning curve. their lack of documentation on iphone development is insane. they REALLY don't want to make it easy. at all.
 
Haha:

SAN JOSE, Calif. — April 10, 2010 — Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq:ADBE) today announced the company is discontinuing all support for its products on the Apple OS X platform. Citing concerns that Apple is being a "poo-poo head," President and Chief Executive Officer Shantanu Narayen said "Go screw yourself, Steve."
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*LTD* said:
You're kidding, right?

If you'll ever apply as a CEO anywhere, make a mental note NOT to say that. Or anything remotely related to that.
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Why? Is it so strange to have two companies work together? Random example: did Valve constantly moan about Microsoft, and vice versa? I don't know but I don't think so... This isn't (supposed to be) politics!
 
This whole issue has been a long time coming. I think it goes back to culture following Macromedia's acquisition in 2005. Adobe's first release was updating Dreamweaver MX to 8 and it included little more than a poorly implemented code collapse feature on both Mac and PC versions. That was after two full years between versions.

A more recent example of Adobe's lack of support for Apple products specifically is in their flagship tool, Photoshop CS4. This product has never supported Spaces on OS X. Using Photoshop today in Spaces is a bungled mess.

Jobs introduced spaces almost four years ago. Adobe's own community support forum has a thread a mile long from users asking why this was never implemented. The big question is whether CS5 will properly support this now basic aspect of OS X. This question was asked repeatedly in comments on this official Adobe blog and is still unaddressed.

Yet, Adobe has no problem trumpeting a tool in CS5 that specifically undermines the intended method for creating apps on the iPhone OS. I haven't seen Apple suggest in any way that they are excited about intermediary translation tools as a way to get more apps into the app store. If anything, the rule of not allowing compiling within the app leads one to think that creating some type of compatibility layer is the wrong direction for their plans on the platform. Combine that with the idea that translated apps do not produce correct GUI or are somehow indicative of lack of a comprehensive development skillset and you've got a pretty solid argument that the business managers at Adobe should not have put all their chips in a flash-to-iPhone conversion tool.

Adobe has both a positioning problem and a technology problem. They need to be on the front foot of an authoring tool for HTML5. They also need to hit the reset switch on how they implement their tools on OS X. Three cheers for allowing Flash developers to still create for other mobile platforms, but general iPhone and iPad users are not going to suffer as a result of this decision.
 
And its shocking how quickly how many of them have managed to replace most of the functionality with HTML5 and standards in less than one week. So imagine what will happen in one month.

I think Adobe was hoping no one noticed the emperor has no clothes. Flash has never been a good tool, and honestly the only use that can't be replaced is for online games.

core000 said:
Almost all the great sites today use Flash.
Click to expand...
 
About time...

It's about time OS maker act more responsibly about what runs on their platform. I certainly don't want to have to know this myself as a user. If an app is in the appstore, it means that Apple saw it and "approved" it. It not like others who just let any s*** crash their day. And also it's a return to normal; flash is just a format, a tool (kinda old also)... who cares..

I remember how FrameMaker for Mac ended, it's just business Adobe, deal with it!
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I'm THRILLED someone is telling it like it is for once. It's just a matter of time before Apple catches the attention of the Justice Department and they SHOULD catch their attention as everything they've been doing for years now is 100% ANTI-COMPETITIVE to a "T". Some of us WANT things like Firefox for the iPad and frankly feel Steve has no right to dictate what software we can or cannot have, let alone monopolize the sales/distribution market for those applications and force developers to pay whatever they ask to develop for it period (and then reject them willy-nilly on a whim if they don't want to carry it). We need the rule of law in this country to start defining what companies can and cannot do for ALL publicly sold platforms. It wasn't right when Microsoft forced licensing fees for hardware (even if Windows was not included on it) and it's not right for Apple to be able to dictate entire software markets for products based on what makes them the most money. They're manipulating multiple markets (hardware, software, phones, store-front distribution systems) to make sure they control it all within the confines of their hardware.
Click to expand...
From your post, it's obvious that you don't know the first thing about anti-trust law.
 
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