Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

[wizard]

Adobe and it's management team can go pound salt in the desert for all I care!

I'm just not amendable anymore to compaies that focus more on marketing than product quality. Flash is a terrible burden on the usr community on every platform. Yes I'm speaking as a user of web browsers here.

As a developer I would never go near flash. Sadly I don't want to be associated with the type of people producing flash crap ware.

Frankly I'm for anything Apple can do to bury Adobe and flash with them.


Dave

 

[mimeArtist]

Please stop talking about Flash in a web browser! This is a different matter.

 

[ValSalva]

Let's hope so We've got Aperture, Pixelmator, and Acorn (and I'm sure many others) for now.

...and GIMP.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Adobe sat on their ass for too long on Flash. Online video playback didn't have to suck this bad, just look at HTML5. Someone posted a comment in another thread about the stability issues with HTML5, but I haven't had a single problem viewing ALL of my YouTube videos with HTML5 for weeks. Not to mention the other HTML5 video sites like Vimeo.

I think that this decision by Apple is to tell Adobe that just offering a Flash to iPhone compiler won't cut the crap that they've (Adobe) accumulated over the years. Improving performance and fast, before HTML5 gains too much traction, is the answer.

 

[peter02l]

"Brimelow notes that he has decided to boycott Apple products 'until there is a leadership change over there'"

To appease Brimelow is it too much to ask that Steve Jobs, all senior VPs an the board be replaced? Please Apple, think of all Adobe shareholders and don't be so selfish as to only consider yours in making platform policy.

 

[Krizoitz]

I hate it!

I do think that Apple is acting in a monopolistic, tyrannical way.

Wait.. maybe I shouldn't say that... Apple legal might stop me.

Can I make a suggestion that you should get yourself a dictionary app from the App Store?

You can't behave in a monopolistic fashion if you are, in fact, not a monopoly. Apple while it has a large market share in smart phones does not have a monopoly.

If you are arguing that they have a monopoly on the iPhone itself, well thats just plain stupid. Thats like saying Nintendo has a monopoly on the Wii or Toyota has a monopoly on the Prius.

Actually the Wii is the perfect example. Its a mostly closed system that developers are allowed to make games for as long as they play by Nintendo's rules.

If people don't like the feature set Apple is providing, they should buy a different device. Simple.

Apple is betting that users prefer their approach and is focusing on keeping the users happy first, developers happy second. It's working.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

Would be an incredibly stupid move it would be, too.

Adobe dropping the Mac would be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. Even Adobe isn't that stupid. They rely on software sales. They don't make hardware or an OS. Ultimately they are someone's bitch. Either Microsoft's or Apple's. Right now they're ~50% Apple's bitch, and it would be smart of them to keep it that way.

As I said. They could drop Mac PS and the user base would move with it.

It's too important a tool to be substituted in a professional environment.

 

[dwman]

Seems like the only folks that may potentially get hurt in all this are the users. If Adobe decides to retaliate by offering limited or no support on the Mac platform for their products, a lot users pay the price. OTH, if they decide to go that route, they've essentially dug their own grave.

 

[bpmacme]

OK, I'm no Flash or Adobe fan (far form it), but on a more general level this is a bad move by Apple.

The fact is, applications are delivered to Apple in BINARY form. provided those binaries obey certain structural, technical, and esthetic restrictions (some enforced by paper, others by checks in the OS), then the application should be accepted by Apple.

HOW the binaries are created is frankly not Apple's business.

I'm sorry, I came on here to congratulate Apple on furthering the development of true applications and saw this. The second you write an OS, come back on this thread, Tim, and say that again about it not being "Apple's business." It is their job to make sure the OS and everything in it runs smoothly. If you have to take and implement 15 different coding languages that run completely different and make them run 'seamlessly' together, you're in for an experience close to windows... jk. Nonetheless, it's not simple, and in order to prevent bloating of an operating system, certain things simply have to be removed and blocked.

The original reason I came on here was just to explain how my Dell 9100 laptop running WinXP, or Win7 now, jumps in CPU usage and the stupid processor overheats within 30 seconds such that my fans go nuts. In a nutshell, Flash needs to ... well not be around anymore, just like COBOL, FORTRAN, and PASCAL are all but dead. ... okay, thank you. vented.

 

[backdraft]

Why doesn't Apple just create one framework for desktop, web and mobile development that supports multiple languages (compiled and dynamic/interpreted) that creates native code.

Microsoft developed .Net off of Java. I'm sure Apple can use Parrot VM + LLVM for JIT compiling.

Parrot
http://www.parrot.org/

LLVM
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2007/03/apple-putting-llvm-to-good-use.ars

Oh and Apple should just buy Adobe already, this is what all the bickering is about. Well at least thats my conspiracy theory!

backdraft

I'm sure Apple can make a (shaky) technical case for its insistence that developer's use only in house tools, but that begs the question: Is it right to put developers in such a position, where the load of implementing Apple's version of multitasking is on their shoulders?

 

[ivladster]

love it

in 10 years after Flash was officially taken out of the web people gonna thank Apple for fighting it. Unless Adobe steps up and work on it.

 

[Swift]

...This has to do with Apple regulating the tools that developers use to make apps for the iPhone, one of which happens to be an upcoming version of Flash.

This is a really bad move on Apple's part and I will be really surprised if we don't see a lawsuit come out of this. Apple is bullying developers into using their tools over a competitor's tools and that (at least in America) is against the law...

********. It's Apple's platform. They want Developers to be using XCode and Objective C. That way, Apple can manage multitasking. A Flash app transcoded to run on the iPhone is a black box. Apple couldn't tell what it was doing, how it was behaving on the stack, nothing. That's why they're booting it out.

Got to say, Steve may have somebody else's liver, but he sure has his own balls.

 

[Maclicious]

Ouch

This puts the screws to a project my wife is involved with. Well, crap.

 

[Mr Skills]

Could it also be about iAd? Wouldn't the new rules prevent ad agencies from providing cookie-cutter code to devs so they could replicate the iAd experience?

 

[peter02l]

Apple still makes billions upon billions of dollars every quarter/year?

Not to mention that Adobe's profits will drop by 40%

 

[bobr1952]

Resistance is futile.......

You will be assimilated

 

[Ochyandkaren]

How did Adobe allow themselves to be this vulnerable? They know Steve is crazy dont they?

Perhaps the most intelligent comment regarding this brouhaha.
It is a competitive world, if they want  to be hijacked by their product, why they cannot stand the same situation?

A good advice, hiring John Gruber they will be able to know in advance (or guess) of any  move.

 

[Cabbit]

Adobe could evolve Flash into a nice HMTL5 Canvas animation editor.

 

[*LTD*]

Not to mention that Adobe's profits will drop by 40%

Apparently in response everyone will dump their Macs and move to Windows machines then.

 

[sean.jost]

There are other framworks out there from companies like Appcelerator that are effectively restricted as well given the language used. They wrap Apple API's into a higher level abstraction to provide rapid development and better cross platform support. You have a native app using native Apple APIs however it was written with an abstraction so per the SDK changes it would seem even frameworks like these, which support a wide range of popular iPhone apps will now be prohibited.

If a developer needs a higher level API (than what Apple is providing) to a achieve RAD or modularity (for cross-platform), they need to find a new career.

 

[MySchizobuddy]

Then laugh as Apple sales plummet.

yes apple sales will plummet but Adobe sales won't plummet. they will miraculously remain the same as it ditches its 37% market by revenue.

you are one smart cookie.

 

[*LTD*]

Adobe could evolve Flash into a nice HMTL5 Canvas animation editor.

Doubtful. That actually takes work and some planning.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

How did Adobe allow themselves to be this vulnerable? They know Steve is crazy dont they?

Because there's no president, ever, in the history of computers, for anything like this. Since the beginning of time, you've always been able to run any program you can load onto your computer.

A more recent example of Adobe's lack of support for Apple products specifically is in their flagship tool, Photoshop CS4. This product has never supported Spaces on OS X. Using Photoshop today in Spaces is a bungled mess.

I'm pretty sure this was due to a bug in how carbon handled spaces, as Office had the same issue.

Additionally, this is not the first time Apple has screwed Adobe over, the last time it was when Apple decided at the last minute that they weren't going to update the carbon API for 64-bit and force Adobe (along with all other legacy developers who wanted 64-bit apps) to convert their programs from carbon to cocoa.

Adobe countered by not making CS4 64-bit for OS X, as they did not have the time between Apple's announcement and their release date to rewrite the CS suite from carbon to cocoa. Now, it's that Apple won't let programs created by Flash run, and you can be that there's going to be some backlash by Adobe - intended or consequential - but there will be some backlash.

Personally, I hope to see Google and Adobe team up to make Youtube flash only, and remove the iPhone's ability to play Youtube. I think it's time Apple got a taste of their own medicine.

 

[Swift]

Seems like the only folks that may potentially get hurt in all this are the users. If Adobe decides to retaliate by offering limited or no support on the Mac platform for their products, a lot users pay the price. OTH, if they decide to go that route, they've essentially dug their own grave.

I'm firing up my copy of Pixelmator right now. Seriously. Adobe was first with a bunch of things. But with the CS series of bloated crap, they think they've hit upon the perfect way to bleed $2500 from professionals every two years. Time for a developer's revolt.

 

[WezUwiUsz]

poor adobe

someone takes their toys from sandbox ... now they will stamp their feet ?
so what... standards going to change. they can't rule the internet anymore... what a pity.

Go adobe to work, and make some html5 tools, stop behave like small child.
It's not enough for them have industry standard photoshop/illustrator , for which they charge crazy money... stop be to greedy.

they can't even do proper flash for mac. my fan go crazy when open any flash 'rich' page.

I'm happy...