Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

[QEII Student IT]

A change of leadership? Did he just claim to be better than Steve Jobs?

Apple are being very very careful not to offend google too much because a lot of their features are powered by google. Youtube, maps, default search and so on. But thanks to HTML5, Adobe have absolutely nothing that Apple depend upon, so this ******* can say what he wants, nobody needs Adobe anymore.

 

[NebulaClash]

Your thoughts?

I do understand how much of the world depends on Adobe now, but they shouldn't. All the IBs in the world can lock themselves into a proprietary solution, but that doesn't make it right. Open standards are the only, and I mean only, way to go on Web development.

We're approaching 100 million iPhone and iPod touch owners, none of who can use Flash, and who generally don't miss it. Games? You must be kidding. iPhone owners have their own games to play. Kids miss their favorite web sites? Not for long as they love their new toy with lots of amazing new games.

So we'll look back on this era as a mistake. HTML 5 is coming and that will be the future. But you're right, at the moment this is a big pain for a lot of folks. That is the problem with proprietary development: sooner or later you want/need to move on, and then it's a big mess to do so.

 

[ValSalva]

If Adobe were smart they'd cut out all Mac development and just do 100% of their development software on Windows. The Mac users who need to develop can just run the tools in a Windows VM.

Can you imagine if they only made Photoshop for Windows? That would be quite a statement.

 

[NebulaClash]

From your post, it's obvious that you don't know the first thing about anti-trust law.

Isn't it amazing that the people who scream loudest about antitrust are the ones who show how ignorant they are of the laws?

 

[*LTD*]

link?

According to Adobe’s John Nack, Mac users account for closer to 50 percent of Photoshop’s marketshare. Similar comments have been made by other top Adobe execs including former CEO Bruce Chizen.

"I just can't see the hoopla over Mac OS that only has 3-7% of market. Use your resources on something more people use. Get with the 64 bit and release a Vista 64 version of Photoshop CS3. We need it NOW!

[The Mac is closer to 50% of our (Photoshop's) market share. --J.]”

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/04/photoshop_lr_64.html

 

[drtimhill]

Apple needs to rethink this one..

OK, I'm no Flash or Adobe fan (far form it), but on a more general level this is a bad move by Apple.

The fact is, applications are delivered to Apple in BINARY form. provided those binaries obey certain structural, technical, and esthetic restrictions (some enforced by paper, others by checks in the OS), then the application should be accepted by Apple.

HOW the binaries are created is frankly not Apple's business, any more than the nationality of the software developers, or what colored pants I wear when I build my application. If I choose to use Fortran to build my app, as long as the final binaries obey Apple's needs, then that should be my choice. In fact, it should be impossible for Apple to even KNOW I've used Fortran -- after the compiler has done it's work the binaries won't be any different from C++ binaries -- in the same way they cannot know what colored pants I wore.

What's next? Apple saying which editor I can use? How many hours a day I can code? I'm a great fan of Apple products, but this is draconian, to say the least.

--Tim

 

[NebulaClash]

Can you imagine if they only made Photoshop for Windows? That would be quite a statement.

I'm sure Apple is just as prepared for this as they were with the switch to Intel. I'm sure they have a foundation product ready to replace Photoshop on the day that Adobe pulls something like this.

 

[marksman]

From your post, it's obvious that you don't know the first thing about anti-trust law.

Seems pretty common here today on these threads.

Reminds me of when I was a small child and my little brother always threatened he was "going to sue me" when I did something wrong to him.

 

[Swift]

Typical lies:

No, there is indeed a rational defense for this stance: Flash is a proprietary standard controlled by a single company that Apple has no say over. HTML 5, in contrast, is an open standard that anyone can use.

Here's another rational defense: Unless you are very careful in your development, Flash is a resource hog that would downgrade many user's experiences. Moving to HMTL 5 is a better choice.

You may disagree with both thoughts, but they are not irrational even if you disagree. So he lied.

I think the final blow that Apple landed was the iAd aspect of their mobile ads. These will ALL be HTML 5 and streaming h.264. No Flash. That's a total blow to Flash. This will mean that ad agencies have a rapidly shrinking reason to deploy Flash ads. Any computer, any browser, AND every mobile device, will support HTML 5. They will not support Flash much longer, when the commercial reasons to do so no longer hold.

Flash will survive for a while in parallel with HTML5. Like the almost-completed Sublime player, we will have something that can default to Flash if that's the only thing on the website, HTML 5 by default.

Flash games may continue for some time.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

Can you imagine if they only made Photoshop for Windows? That would be quite a statement.

Yes I can.

If Adobe wants to be equally pissy (and that's what Apple is basically doing) they could easily just stop supporting the Mac platform. They've done it before.

 

[helloniklas]

His comments are ridiculous. Why don't Adobe build their own phone if they believe so much their proprietary virtual engine approach will work so great on mobiles.

 

[Icaras]

From the end of Mr. Brimelow's blog:

Comments disabled as I’m not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots.

Speaks a lot about his character.

LOL and since when did we have to associate the entire town of Cupertino with Apple fanboys? Kind of unfair to group all the citizens of Cupertino together like that

 

[baleensavage]

This has nothing to do whatsoever with bringing the Flash player to Apple’s devices. That is a separate discussion entirely. What they are saying is that they won’t allow applications onto their marketplace solely because of what language was originally used to create them. This is a frightening move that has no rational defense other than wanting tyrannical control over developers and more importantly, wanting to use developers as pawns in their crusade against Adobe. This does not just affect Adobe but also other technologies like Unity3D.

This quote right here, IMHO is dead on the money. This whole argument has nothing to do with Safari on iPod not using the Flash plugin as many seem to think. Nor does it have anything to do with how sucky of an internet plugin Flash is. This has to do with Apple regulating the tools that developers use to make apps for the iPhone, one of which happens to be an upcoming version of Flash.

This is a really bad move on Apple's part and I will be really surprised if we don't see a lawsuit come out of this. Apple is bullying developers into using their tools over a competitor's tools and that (at least in America) is against the law. Pair that with setting up their new iAds which means that Apple now takes a 40% chip off ads on the iPhone OS, and Apple really is moving into Microsoft territory here. Apple's policies around the app store have been treading on thin ice for some time now and from the looks of it, they are about to fall in.

 

[Swift]

Can you imagine if they only made Photoshop for Windows? That would be quite a statement.

So? I could run it in Parallels. Screw them. It would be about as fast as it is now.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

I'm sure Apple is just as prepared for this as they were with the switch to Intel. I'm sure they have a foundation product ready to replace Photoshop on the day that Adobe pulls something like this.

Not going to happen.

I don't care what Apple releases there is no way that professionals would abandon Photoshop just so they can use OSX. It would be like Apple trying to build a search engine to replace Google.

 

[Starflyer]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

If Adobe were smart they'd cut out all Mac development and just do 100% of their development software on Windows. The Mac users who need to develop can just run the tools in a Windows VM.

Isn't this how we got Final Cut Pro?

 

[firewood]

Adobe should "accidentally" release a jailbroken flash and pull ALL mac products off the shelf and restrict support.

Then laugh as Apple sales plummet.

Unless, as a result, their own sales plummet even faster, and then all Adobe's execs get fired by the shareholders.

 

[AlphaBob]

Imagine if Microsoft started demanding that only Dell could make PCs to run Windows and no one else

Sorry, not a valid point at all. Apple isn't telling anybody what they can run on a different machines from HP, Dell, They are only saying what they will allow to be run on APPLE devices without voiding the warranty and support. That, my friend, is NOT anti-competitive, and is entirely within Apple's rights. But addressing your specific example, if Microsoft decided to make an exclusive deal with Dell that meant windows was only available on Dell hardware, that wouldn't be anti-competitive at all -- it would be an exclusive license. There wouldn't be a damned thing anybody could do about it, except buy computers from other suppliers with different operating systems.

Just because you or I want Flash support doesn't mean Apple is obligated to provide it, or has become anti-competitive by not providing it. We are not entitled to it, nor do we have a right to expect the government to demand it.

Personally, I think it is a stupid market move for Apple to continue to fight Flash, but that is just my opinion.

 

[*LTD*]

Yes I can.

If Adobe wants to be equally pissy (and that's what Apple is basically doing) they could easily just stop supporting the Mac platform. They've done it before.

Can you imagine if they only made Photoshop for Windows? That would be quite a statement.

Would be an incredibly stupid move, too.

Adobe dropping the Mac would be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. Even Adobe isn't that stupid. They rely on software sales. They don't make hardware or an OS. Ultimately they are someone's bitch. Either Microsoft's or Apple's. Right now they're ~50% Apple's bitch, and it would be smart of them to keep it that way.

But let's play with this ludicrous scenario.

Apple moves some of its $40 billion. Steps in and buys up or creates an alternative suite, supporting current workflows or introducing a better standard within a few months.

Apple did it with Aperture and it's successful. Apple released FCP and it's successful. Apple came out of nowhere with FCP and in no time split the market with Avid 50/50.

Never underestimate what the most creative company in tech + $40 billion in cash + legions of hungry and enthusiastic developers can do. And if anyone can pull it off (plus create a killer UI while doing it), it's Apple.

 

[ValSalva]

I'm sure Apple is just as prepared for this as they were with the switch to Intel. I'm sure they have a foundation product ready to replace Photoshop on the day that Adobe pulls something like this.

Let's hope so We've got Aperture, Pixelmator, and Acorn (and I'm sure many others) for now.

 

[Heliya]

LoL , boycott

That guy is going to boycott apple until they fire steve jobs. That guy must be on drugs.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Apple are being very very careful not to offend google too much because a lot of their features are powered by google. Youtube, maps, default search and so on.

Steve Jobs on Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: “It’s bullsh**.”

http://tinyurl.com/y8tlwe8

Had to use tiny url because the URL has a swear word in it!

But thanks to HTML5, Adobe have absolutely nothing that Apple depend upon, so this ******* can say what he wants, nobody needs Adobe anymore.

Wow, so many of you still don't get it. You hate Flash, fine. This move screws over many more devs than just Adobe. Unity, Torque, Shiva, windows iPhone developers. I was starting in Unity but now I have to wait and find out if it's still a viable platform for development. No official answer from the Devs of unity yet. This move from Apple comes right after Unity announced iPad support.

God, I hope it doesn't wreck the middleware market.

 

[xStep]

though for whatever reason, apple loves a giant developer learning curve. their lack of documentation on iphone development is insane. they REALLY don't want to make it easy. at all.

What lack of documentation? Is something missing?

 

[marksman]

Plus Apple made what's call an hypocrit and dick move. What if Adobe does a really dickish one twoand don't release CS updates on Mac anymore...?

Apple still makes billions upon billions of dollars every quarter/year?

 

[sean.jost]

My perspective as a developer:

Any developer worth his salt should shutter at the sound of cross-compiling for the same reason that Apple is blocking this. Applications built in flash are NOTHING LIKE native iPhone applications so you're going to a lot of nasty generated port code and there's 0% chance that the app will run like a natively designed application.

If Apple wanted to provide cross-language support they would have built a iPhone runtime like Java or .NET.

As for the timing of this...anyone familiar with the business world should know that business is business. Companies always act in what's best for their bottom line. I believe that Apple is protecting their users from crappy ported applications.