1Password Is Now Free Mac App Store With in-app Subscription.

[turnstyle]

I'm not conflating two unrelated issues.

I'm talking about my relationship with the company behind software that I use regularly.

Their story, that "everybody is clamoring to be moved to subscription" -- it's disingenuous and not a trustworthy position. I know I certainly don't want this, and I see plenty of other people saying the same.

I am not suggesting that the actual encryption itself is compromised. However, I now trust AgileBits notably less than I did a few weeks ago. And for an application like 1Password, trust is a pretty key element.

 

[steve62388]

I'm not conflating two unrelated issues.

I'm talking about my relationship with the company behind software that I use regularly.

Their story, that "everybody is clamoring to be moved to subscription" -- it's disingenuous and not a trustworthy position. I know I certainly don't want this, and I see plenty of other people saying the same.

I am not suggesting that the actual encryption itself is compromised. However, I now trust AgileBits notably less than I did a few weeks ago. And for an application like 1Password, trust is a pretty key element.

Yeah, you are. Trust for a password manager is important believing that your data is safe and you make this point. You acknowledge that this is not compromised.

If you were an Adobe user, now that they have gone full subscription, would you say that your trust in them has been compromised? If 'yes' then it's got nothing to do with passwords because they don't offer such a product. If 'no' then you don't really have an issue with subscriptions.

You can absolutely argue you don't like a subscription model, and the point would be fair. But that's not what you're saying.

 

[turnstyle]

er, yes -- any company that changes the deal mid-stream diminishes trust.

And AgileBits' response -- that everybody is clamoring to be moved to subscription -- it's just not forthright.

I never had any particular reason to question them, and now I do.

 

[steve62388]

er, yes -- any company that changes the deal mid-stream diminishes trust.

And AgileBits' response -- that everybody is clamoring to be moved to subscription -- it's just not forthright.

I never had any particular reason to question them, and now I do.

Well then your mistrust is misplaced. Nothing has been changed midstream. Your license is still valid and will continue to be so. It wouldn't surprise me if AB charge for an upgrade from v6 to v7, it's due because they haven't charged since v4 (I believe). The vast majority of companies would have charged from v4 > v5 >6. It's perfectly reasonable they're allowed to make the choice to move to a subscription only model (although they haven't said that).

That's where your argument lies, you don't like subscription payments. Nothing to do with trust.

 

[turnstyle]

And now you are making claims you have no basis to make (unless you work for AgileBits?) -- that my license "will continue" to be valid.

Regardless, you also ague that it's perfectly fine if they choose to switch to a subscription only model.

I disagree, and plenty of other people who have commented previously in this thread disagree.

As a business decisions, sure, it's their decision to make. But as a customer of that business, this decision, along with the disingenuous marketing-speak diminishes my trust.

 

[steve62388]

And now you are making claims you have no basis to make (unless you work for AgileBits?) -- that my license "will continue" to be valid.

Regardless, you also ague that it's perfectly fine if they choose to switch to a subscription only model.

I disagree, and plenty of other people who have commented previously in this thread disagree.

As a business decisions, sure, it's their decision to make. But as a customer of that business, this decision, along with the disingenuous marketing-speak diminishes my trust.

You're the only one conflating trusting the integrity of your passwords with the possible move to a subscription model.

You made this mistaken viewpoint very clear in your original post:-

For me, it boils down to TRUST.
For obvious reasons, 1Password depends on TRUST.
And this move by AgileBits leaves me wondering whether I can trust them.
And that's not something I want to be suddenly uncertain about when it comes to password management.

Everybody else on that side of the argument just thinks that subscription models suck.

 

[turnstyle]

No, you are the only one making that suggestion, and then you are the one going on to argue with it. Look up "straw man argument."

I said that this move by AgileBits diminishes my trust in AgileBits.

I also said that given the nature of what 1Password does, it is a pretty trust-intensive application. Trust matters. Perhaps this move by them hasn't changed your opinion. That's fine. But it has changed my opinion.

 

[steve62388]

No, you are the only one making that suggestion, and then you are the one going on to argue with it. Look up "straw man argument."

I said that this move by AgileBits diminishes my trust in AgileBits.

I also said that given the nature of what 1Password does, it is a pretty trust-intensive application. Trust matters. Perhaps this move by them hasn't changed your opinion. That's fine. But it has changed my opinion.

You said it, own it. Look up 'rowing back on an argument'.

 

[turnstyle]

Here, let me quote myself, in entirety:

I just created an account so I could add my disappointment to this thread.

For me, it boils down to TRUST.

For obvious reasons, 1Password depends on TRUST.

And this move by AgileBits leaves me wondering whether I can trust them.

And that's not something I want to be suddenly uncertain about when it comes to password management.

 

[itguy06]

I got that email, and basically I'm going to use my old version as long as possible and switch to another password app that will not be subscription.

And so it begins.

Enpass is basically a clone of 1Password and not a subscription.
[doublepost=1489010278][/doublepost]

I'm sorry, we can't really provide evidence because it's sales statistics. But our sales are overwhelmingly in favor of the subscription service now. It provides a great deal of benefits and clearly users are seeing these benefits and purchasing as a result.

Sorry, I'm LOL right now at this. You guys introduce subscription, scrub the website of nearly all mentions of a standalone license and wonder why people overwhelmingly chose the subscription? I bet if you left both options prominently displayed the stats would be quite different.
[doublepost=1489010403][/doublepost]

Adobe never said they were keeping stand alone licenses. If I remember, we didn't get much warning when they were going subscription either. Now Agilebits have said many time on here and many times on their site that stand alone licenses are not going anywhere.

Please point out where on the 1password website there is the option for standalone. Hint: You can't because you have to actively search for the obscure link to purchase one.

 

[Primejimbo]

And so it begins.

Enpass is basically a clone of 1Password and not a subscription.
[doublepost=1489010278][/doublepost]

Sorry, I'm LOL right now at this. You guys introduce subscription, scrub the website of nearly all mentions of a standalone license and wonder why people overwhelmingly chose the subscription? I bet if you left both options prominently displayed the stats would be quite different.
[doublepost=1489010403][/doublepost]

Please point out where on the 1password website there is the option for standalone. Hint: You can't because you have to actively search for the obscure link to purchase one.

Ok, think about it for a minute. The only people who are concerned about the standalone are the people who already have it. New customer customers in a year will probabaly not know about the old standalone license.

If you had a company and came out with a new product, wouldn't you push it too? Probably. Agilebits said the stand alones aren't going anywhere, they never said they would keep pushing it. As long as they update the standalone, what's the big deal? If people who already bought the license, and they get updates, what's the issue?

I work for a few tech companies and us and the others are always coming out with something new, and we push it. Heck, one company is trying to drop support on its legacy equipment all together.

As for people wanting subscriptions I get it. This is from a post I posted in here I think on page 3:

"I can believe people were asking for subscription. There is a big part of the population that doesn't like paying for a big lump all at once, and they rather pay a little each month. People also want the "latest and greatest" all the time too. Even Apple saw this that people wanted the latest and greatest all the time and have their own "subscription" with the iPhone.

There also has to be a selling point for subscription that they do have. You can recover accounts, have shared vaults easier, on-line access, getting the latest and greatest, and easier to set up for syncing (no other app needed anymore). For people who aren't techie people, this is great, especially when you have different platforms. I've gotten a lot of people to use 1Password who have multiple platforms and that was the biggest complaint from them "I have to use Dropbox to sync? Now I have to set up a Dropbox account? Why don't they have their own system?". Don't get me started trying to teach someone using the file transfer or wifi sync. An average user wouldn't get it at all. I get why Agilebits did this and went this route."

 

[theluggage]

New customer customers in a year will probabaly not know about the old standalone license.

Of course they won't - because they've removed all mention of the standalone license option from the main part of their website. Nobody will find the option if they don't already know it is there.

That's the thing - in six months we'll probably be hearing "99% of our sales have been subscriptions so after careful consideration...."

If you had a company and came out with a new product, wouldn't you push it too?

Yes, but I'd only go out of my way to hide the old product if I considered it obsolescent and was considering withdrawing it.

If people who already bought the license, and they get updates, what's the issue?

Maybe you have the Mac version and want to add the iOS version. Maybe you want the PC version - the latest version for PC effectively requires a subscription (it only has read-only access to file-based vaults - according to the forums full file-based support may be coming at some unspecified time in the future but, hey, don'tcha know that our subscription service is awesome?), the older v4 for PC lacks the file-based sync functionality. Maybe you're thinking ahead to whether the next version of OS X will need 1Password 7 (which they have made no commitment to offering standalone - see my previous point about the state of the PC version 6).

Agilebits said the stand alones aren't going anywhere

You keep repeating your personal spin on what they've said. All I see is an assurance that the current version is still available standalone (if you know exactly where to look) and existing licenses remain valid. Nothing concrete about the future and a lot of actions that speak louder than words (vanishing the option from the website).

"I have to use Dropbox to sync? Now I have to set up a Dropbox account? Why don't they have their own system?".

I have to get a 1Password subscription? I already have DropBox/OneDrive/iCloud/Google Drive/Box (delete as appropriate).

Nobody here is complaining about them offering a cloud-based password storage option for those who want it.

Don't get me started trying to teach someone using the file transfer or wifi sync. An average user wouldn't get it at all.

If someone can't handle "Stick USB key into Machine A, start 1Password, wait 10 seconds, move USB stick to machine B, start 1Password, wait 10 seconds" - and, yeah, there will be some - then I strongly advise not to get involved in their online security. Seriously - you think they're going to get how to use the password generator to produce strong passwords, adjusting the settings to meet various site's silly password rules? Even I find that a fiddle sometimes (although 1Password does its best given the variability, and occasional stupidity, of website designers).

...because such people will be ground zero for:

"Hi, this being concerned about suspected activity in your 1Password accounting. Please going to 1Pasword.phish.com and entering your account key and master password or your account will being suspended in 48 hour. Have a nice days".

...whereas with the current system they'd at least have to work out how to send the bad guy a copy of their vault. Or you could keep hold of the USB stick...

 

[skinsone]

I went to open my 1password this morning on my iphone 6s 10.2.1. Had a pop up tell me I needed to upgrade to the subscription version to continue using and that my version would not work in the future. No mention at all about standalone license.

I have been watching threads about different apps before and after also getting the email. I'm tired of have to pay for a new license every time there was a OS/IOS upgrade. I've lost count of how much money I have paid for each license version of their desktop and IOS apps I've had over the years. Now they want an annual subscription; ummm no.

Decided to get enpass for my iphones and iPads. For $9.99 I also bought the desktop version and won't be charged for any future updates. Enpass desktop version did a complete and accurate import from 1Password. Clean, neat and simple to use.

 

[steve62388]

I'm tired of have to pay for a new license every time there was a OS/IOS upgrade.

I have no idea why you're tired of something that's just not true.

 

[skinsone]

I have no idea why you're tired of something that's just not true.

For years, with every version change to work with a new IOS, I was required to pay for a license if I wanted the newer version to work with my phone. When I didn't upgrade my app in the last version, the app worked up until a few weeks ago. Sometimes it would open, sometimes it would crash immediately after opening with my 4 digit code. Just like this morning I opened it with my 4 digit code. It unlocked, pop up message appeared and immediately the app crashed.

Besides, I am opposed to paying for an upfront annual subscription. Enpass does exactly what I need a password keeper to do and doesn't require any more $$ than $9.99 to get the desktop app. It sync's immediately with all my other devices and desktop app. It imported all my data from 1Password so I am a happy camper.

 

[steve62388]

For years, with every version change to work with a new IOS, I was required to pay for a license if I wanted the newer version to work with my phone. When I didn't upgrade my app in the last version, the app worked up until a few weeks ago. Sometimes it would open, sometimes it would crash immediately after opening with my 4 digit code. Just like this morning I opened it with my 4 digit code. It unlocked, pop up message appeared and immediately the app crashed.

Besides, I am opposed to paying for an upfront annual subscription. Enpass does exactly what I need a password keeper to do and doesn't require any more $$ than $9.99 to get the desktop app. It sync's immediately with all my other devices and desktop app. It imported all my data from 1Password so I am a happy camper.

I get that you don't like subs and that's understandable.

Can you please explain to me how you managed to pay for a 1P upgrade for every new version of iOS? The last version I paid for was 1P 4.2.1 under iOS 6 and I am now running 1P 6.5.2. Since that time we have gone from iOS 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10.

 

[Primejimbo]

Of course they won't - because they've removed all mention of the standalone license option from the main part of their website. Nobody will find the option if they don't already know it is there.

as I said many times, if you already have the standalone, what is the big deal? If you have it already, you obviously can ask them where to go. They and myself have posted links directly to it.

That's the thing - in six months we'll probably be hearing "99% of our sales have been subscriptions so after careful consideration...."

again, read other posts I said and they said that the standalone aren't going anywhere.

Yes, but I'd only go out of my way to hide the old product if I considered it obsolescent and was considering withdrawing it.

so? I said the answer about this before, not repeating myself.

Maybe you have the Mac version and want to add the iOS version. Maybe you want the PC version - the latest version for PC effectively requires a subscription (it only has read-only access to file-based vaults - according to the forums full file-based support may be coming at some unspecified time in the future but, hey, don'tcha know that our subscription service is awesome?), the older v4 for PC lacks the file-based sync functionality. Maybe you're thinking ahead to whether the next version of OS X will need 1Password 7 (which they have made no commitment to offering standalone - see my previous point about the state of the PC version 6).

still not 100% sure on this because my wife just got the Window one and syncs to Dropbox.
One day I'll get there to look at it. I'll help my wife switch that one over anyways if we keep the subscription one.

You keep repeating your personal spin on what they've said. All I see is an assurance that the current version is still available standalone (if you know exactly where to look) and existing licenses remain valid. Nothing concrete about the future and a lot of actions that speak louder than words (vanishing the option from the website).

so? Again as I said before, if you're an existing customer who has the stand alone, why do you need it again?

I have to get a 1Password subscription? I already have DropBox/OneDrive/iCloud/Google Drive/Box (delete as appropriate).

cool, continue to use the standalone. Done.

Nobody here is complaining about them offering a cloud-based password storage option for those who want it.

ok, is it still working? Yes? Keep using it.

If someone can't handle "Stick USB key into Machine A, start 1Password, wait 10 seconds, move USB stick to machine B, start 1Password, wait 10 seconds" - and, yeah, there will be some - then I strongly advise not to get involved in their online security. Seriously - you think they're going to get how to use the password generator to produce strong passwords, adjusting the settings to meet various site's silly password rules? Even I find that a fiddle sometimes (although 1Password does its best given the variability, and occasional stupidity, of website designers).

because you know everything? I work for a company who helps people with technology, not everyone knows everything. I also love teaching and helping others about on-line security and safety. Not everything is tech-savvy, but awesome you know everything. Like my mom, I set up iCloud sync for her with 1Password and done. I know she couldn't have figured it out (60 plus, or who knows, she might have), and I helped her. But she can generate passwords with no issues and use it.

I've tried other password managers and they all had issues with some websites. It's a given, the password managers makers don't control what other people do.

...because such people will be ground zero for:

"Hi, this being concerned about suspected activity in your 1Password accounting. Please going to 1Pasword.phish.com and entering your account key and master password or your account will being suspended in 48 hour. Have a nice days".

you can can use a USB stick to sync, but worried you'll fall for this scam? Ok. Also, I learned (because I'm actually trying it before I complain about it) when you go on 1Password.com on an existing devise, you email and part of the account key is saved from before. So if I go on a link that doesn't have that, it's a red flag. Heck, even my mother knows not to fall for that trick. She actually gets calls "there is a virus on your Windows machine..." and she said she doesn't have a computer (jokenly) and hangs up.

...whereas with the current system they'd at least have to work out how to send the bad guy a copy of their vault. Or you could keep hold of the USB stick...

ok cool, keep it then. I might also stick with the stand alone, and won't worry about it. Start complaining when and if they drop support for the stand alone 100%. Until then, it's whining.

 

[skinsone]

I get that you don't like subs and that's understandable.

Can you please explain to me how you managed to pay for a 1P upgrade for every new version of iOS? The last version I paid for was 1P 4.2.1 under iOS 6 and I am now running 1P 6.5.2. Since that time we have gone from iOS 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10.

Maybe I worded it wrong. But every time 1Password upgraded the version I had I would receive an email asking me to go to the website and upgrade my license's where I originally purchased them. I don't have the specific $$ amounts and truthfully it doesn't matter at this point in time. I've deleted them from all my devices and iTunes.

Enpass is what I have now and I am happy with it.

 

[steve62388]

Hmm. That's interesting. I said earlier in the thread:-

I would be a darn sight more concerned with a product that doesn't have a sustainable sales model (eg a free password manager). They have to generate income from somewhere and free services inevitability means you're the product.

It looks like I was right. Enpass has been tracking it's users:- https://discussion.enpass.io/index.php?/topic/719-opting-out-from-tracking/

 

[theluggage]

again, read other posts I said and they said that the standalone aren't going anywhere.

Show me the post where they used the words "not going anywhere" - It has gone somewhere - it has totally vanished from the "Pricing" page of their website. Meanwhile I've already linked to one comment where they make it clear that they are making no promises about future major versions.

still not 100% sure on this because my wife just got the Window one and syncs to Dropbox.

I'm talking about the "sync with folder" option (on OS X this lets you keep a synced copy of your vault on a USB drive) which doesn't exist on 1pw4 for windows. 1pw6 does have Dropbox, OneDrive and folder options, but it can currently only add/edit passwords stored on a 1Password account.

See: https://discussions.agilebits.com/d...1password-6-is-for-1password-memberships-only

...yes, they say full local vault support for 1pw6 is coming (since October) but don't give a date and (read carefully) don't say anything about offering a standalone license for 1PW6 for windows. 1PW4 lacks the newer features (in particular, sync-via-folder-or-usb).

Again as I said before, if you're an existing customer who has the stand alone, why do you need it again?

Again, as I said before - if you want to add the iOS, Android or up-to-date Windows client, or if a future MacOS version breaks the current version. Oh, and from the thread linked above:

but eventually, we'll start shipping new features exclusively for 1Password.com services.

because you know everything?

I've spent most of my life helping people with computer problems too - 1PW makes USB and WiFi sync very straightforward and amenable to simple "do this, then do this, now do that" instructions that people can write on their cheat sheets and learn to do (and, if all else fails, would take me a minute to do for them). Much easier than the day-to-day process of actually using a password manager to create, enter and update credentials on diverse and constantly-changing websites - which needs problem-solving skills.

you can can use a USB stick to sync, but worried you'll fall for this scam?

We're not talking about me - these are your hypothetical clients who can't follow a simple 3-step procedure involving a USB sick. I've set up a trial account, too, so I know the drill and get that the account key is never transmitted (despite it appearing on your account page and a PDF they apparently let you download - all through the magic of local scripting I sincerely hope). I guarantee that non-techies won't understand that and will happily key it in if what they think is the 1Pw website asks for it.

Start complaining when and if they drop support for the stand alone 100%

No. Start complaining when they make it completely obvious that they're considering dropping the stand alone, while there's still a chance for them to change the mind. By the time they've actually dropped it, it will be fait accompli and irreversible.

I'll repeat one last time and maybe it will sink in: they have removed all mention of the standalone option from the directly accessible parts of their website - not even a footnote. If they want people to believe that they are committed to standalone licensing and/or offline vaults (two separate issues there, by the way*) then they need to fix that - no carefully-worded rationalisations posted to blogs will outweigh the reality that action.

* I've already said that, as I use the MacOS, iOS and Android clients and want to add the Windows one alongside that, so for me the subscription is reasonable value for money - not so much for people who just want one or two clients. I'm currently trying to convince myself that storing passwords online with them is bombproof (it is, in theory, but the devil is in the details - especially the initial generation and display of the key). I'd feel happier if you couldn't access the online vault from a browser or see your key "on" your online account page (locally inserted I assume, but that still means your browser has access to it)... because developers never unwittingly leave security loopholes, especially in web browsers...

 

[r3m1]

To AgileBits’ credit, they have not charged existing users in a long time. I got the first iOS and OS X versions so early, that they cost me a fraction of today’s prices. I had to pay again for the ‘universal’ iOS app (due to App Store restrictions at the time) and the Mac App Store version of 1Password when these were released. Both had a 50% launch discount and a promised free upgrade to the next major version, and they were still cheaper than they are today. That was many years ago and since then I have not paid anything, despite receiving all updates.

That said, I won’t be subscribing either. I am not satisfied with their applications at the moment. The Mac app looks terrible with its bleached interface, i.e. grey and white background, grey icons and grey fonts. It is quite simply the most awful looking app on my Mac and I don’t enjoy using it because of this. The iOS version is also a compromise for me, because they stupidly decided that Touch ID is a replacement for a passcode, so on Touch ID capable devices, they no longer offer this option at all. I now basically have to choose between Touch ID or my full master password, but I want the additional entropy. Any web-based solution is completely out of the question.

Have used the windows version as well and that one is even more horrible ... sux on windows, ios and macos

 

[soupy norman]

Just curious… I've had the AppStore version for quite some time, can't find any licence info in the app. Does that mean I'm going to be prompted to subscribe in a month? If not, how am I recognised as one who doesn't require it?

Suppose I do a fresh install from Appstore, does the app know I'm a standalone user, as opposed who just downloaded it for free for the fist time?

 

[CoastalOR]

Just curious… I've had the AppStore version for quite some time, can't find any licence info in the app. Does that mean I'm going to be prompted to subscribe in a month? If not, how am I recognised as one who doesn't require it?

Suppose I do a fresh install from Appstore, does the app know I'm a standalone user, as opposed who just downloaded it for free for the fist time?

You will not be prompted in a month to subscribe unless AgileBits no longer supports the standalone version and something is happening to cause the standalone to quit functioning.

The standalone version is stored in the Purchased tab in the Mac App Store.
You could re-download the standalone version from the Purchased tab in the Mac App Store to do a fresh install.

 

[soupy norman]

The standalone version is stored in the Purchased tab in the Mac App Store.
You could re-download the standalone version from the Purchased tab in the Mac App Store to do a fresh install.

Yes, but isn't it the same app now? (It is, I clicked the link on the original purchase and it opened current "free" version in the Appstore). If I download it on a fresh OS X install, will it know I'm a standalone user?

I guess we will know before a month

 

[TonyK]

Can I ask why a web based solution is out of the question for you? I suspect if you understood how our service works you might actually find it goes well above and beyond what any of the others out there do. I'm happy to discuss if you'd like.

Sadly I remember the fiasco that was the original Dropbox and losing WiFi. The mess that created for a lot of users, me included. I do not trust my data such as passwords and the like, to a central target that crackers and thieves will work on daily to gain access.

Back then the users eventually won and we had a 2 step process for WiFi syncing via a 3rd little shim of an application and now we have a WiFi option in the stand alone.

Like others, I've been there since the start and do not plan on moving to a subscription based service for passwords, word processing or photo processing.

Update: Who remembers the AWS outage of a couple of weeks ago? Took AWS down for most of a day. If that happens to a cloud service such as Dropbox, 1Password, etc, how would you get to your passwords? What happens if you don't have cell service or WiFi, such as during a bad weather event.

My point is my data stays with me. It does not get stored outside of my immediate and physical control and storage. If I need it, but it here or the middle of no where, I can open my smartphone and look up the information needed.

Love 1Password. Don't like the subscription model or forcing people to use a cloud/server based storage system.