Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

Forgive me for not having citations handy (might be able to find some later), but there's been some discontent about what these certifications actually mean in practice. TUV Rheinland with their "Eye Comfort" certification seems to be the most popular, but the flaw is outside of a strict outline of requirements the actual testing methodology seems to be unavailable for public scrutiny. Some people in other communities have claimed that with some devices that are certified they don't use explicit PWM, but they still potentially suffer from ripple of the backlight, leading to still being an issue. And even if the certification was entirely honest it could still lead to a false sense of security due to per unit variance or the manufacture switching components without changing the model number (there is prior precedent for this, see "panel lottery").

“Flicker Free certification” is a bit of an oxymoron.

All of the smartphones I’ve seen with the certification still flicker, they just do it at a higher frequency and assumedly lower modulations. Hence PWM-sensitive users can still find these displays to be headache-inducing and potentially unusable.

Apple would probably meet all of TUV Rheinland’s Eye Comfort criteria besides the Flicker Free certification, which indicates they have a lot more work to do with the flickering of these displays.

I’ve tried looking up the exact guidelines and requirements for these certifications, including “eye-friendly,” etc. This is for the most part what I could find beyond the description of why it matters, including increased readability and reduced headaches/migraines:

“TÜV Rheinland has tested this product to ascertain whether the display produces visible and invisible flicker for the human eye and therefore strains the eye of the user.

TÜV Rheinland has defined a catalogue of tests, which sets out minimum standards at various frequency ranges. The test catalogue is based on internationally applicable standards or standards common within the industry and exceeds these requirements.

The product has been tested in the laboratory according to these criteria.

The keyword "Flicker Free" confirms that the device has no visible and invisible flicker defined in this standard within the range of 0 - 3000 Hz under various brightness settings.”

 

[Heman87]

The nothing phone 2a looks promising

 

[super chimp]

Another new Chinese phone the Honor Magic6 Pro takes uses an unbelievable high PWM (4320Hz). It seems they take the issue of the impact of such screens on people far more seriously than many western companies. This will be available globally.

 

[Heman87]

Another new Chinese phone the Honor Magic6 Pro takes uses an unbelievable high PWM (4320Hz). It seems they take the issue of the impact of such screens on people far more seriously than many western companies. This will be available globally.

The Honor Magic 6 Pro uses hybrid DC dimming above 30% brightness and 4320Hz PWM dimming below 30% brightness.

 

[badger1212]

The Honor Magic 6 Pro uses hybrid DC dimming above 30% brightness and 4320Hz PWM dimming below 30% brightness.

Does this mean it should be more comfortable below 30% brightness?

 

[super chimp]

Is there anywhere I can find out which is better PWM wise between the baseline Pixel 8 and baseline S24? I’m guessing they maybe equally bad in this respect.

 

[Heman87]

Is there anywhere I can find out which is better PWM wise between the baseline Pixel 8 and baseline S24? I’m guessing they maybe equally bad in this respect.

Both are bad

 

[Heman87]

Does this mean it should be more comfortable below 30% brightness?

No, above 30% it uses hybrid DC dimming. So it should be also comfortable above 30%. I havent tested it myself. But the person who made this test says its the most comfortable OLED screen he used. He is also positive about the Nothing 2a

 

[badger1212]

No, above 30% it uses hybrid DC dimming. So it should be also comfortable above 30%. I havent tested it myself. But the person who made this test says its the most comfortable OLED screen he used. He is also positive about the Nothing 2a

I've been using it for about 10 days and I can confirm also it is the most comfortable OLED screen I've used too. There are a few issues with notifications which I find a pain and the rest of my family is on iOS which makes shared calendars and Screentime less convenient but I need to balance that out against the relative comfort compared with an OLED iPhone.

 

[super chimp]

I've been using it for about 10 days and I can confirm also it is the most comfortable OLED screen I've used too. There are a few issues with notifications which I find a pain and the rest of my family is on iOS which makes shared calendars and Screentime less convenient but I need to balance that out against the relative comfort compared with an OLED iPhone.

Do you mean you’re on the Honor phone or the Nothing phone?

 

[now i see it]

If  even mentioned the acronym “PWM” just once, their fear is they’d get hit with a class action lawsuit spanning over a decade — amounting to billions of dollars (is my suspicion)

 

[badger1212]

Do you mean you’re on the Honor phone or the Nothing phone?

The Honor Magic 6 Pro.

 

[badger1212]

If  even mentioned the acronym “PWM” just once, their fear is they’d get hit with a class action lawsuit spanning over a decade — amounting to billions of dollars (is my suspicion)

I'd imagine they'll concentrate on terms like eye comfort and avoid references to PWM.

 

[Heman87]

If  even mentioned the acronym “PWM” just once, their fear is they’d get hit with a class action lawsuit spanning over a decade — amounting to billions of dollars (is my suspicion)

Well they also don’t do anything about it. Apple is the most lazy tech company I know. They are the richest company but so slow with innovation if you compare to android companies. Like higher pwm, usb C, AI higher charging capabilities or other new function. I saw the iPhone 16 rumors. They are talking about a new button….. so groundbreaking. The iPhone 15 series was basically the same as iPhone 14 series. Which was the same as the iPhone 13 series with the dynamic island and so on on. They are still selling an iPhone SE for 529 euros. A phone from 2022 with a design of iPhone 8 and a new chip. Which had the same design of the iPhone 6 from 2014. While the nothing phone 2a is just costing 329 euro.

Sorry for the rant I am going to give apple another chance it with the iPhone 16 series. If it’s the same low PWM frequency I will move to a nothing phone, honor, Motorola or xiaomi phone. If they don’t care about us. I will leave apple for good. It’s just sucks because I also have the airpods Pro, Apple Watch ultra, Apple Music and I have also an iPad. So I have to sell all these devices if I leave apple for good. But it is what it’s. Again sorry for the rant

 

[MICHAELSD]

Well they also don’t do anything about it. Apple is the most lazy tech company I know. They are the richest company but so slow with innovation if you compare to android companies. Like higher pwm, usb C, AI higher charging capabilities or other new function. I saw the iPhone 16 rumors. They are talking about a new button….. so groundbreaking. The iPhone 15 series was basically the same as iPhone 14 series. Which was the same as the iPhone 13 series with the dynamic island and so on on. They are still selling an iPhone SE for 529 euros. A phone from 2022 with a design of iPhone 8 and a new chip. Which had the same design of the iPhone 6 from 2014. While the nothing phone 2a is just costing 329 euro.

Sorry for the rant I am going to give apple another chance it with the iPhone 16 series. If it’s the same low PWM frequency I will move to a nothing phone, honor, Motorola or xiaomi phone. If they don’t care about us. I will leave apple for good. It’s just sucks because I also have the airpods Pro, Apple Watch ultra, Apple Music and I have also an iPad. So I have to sell all these devices if I leave apple for good. But it is what it’s. Again sorry for the rant

It would be ideal if they released iPhone 16 with flicker-free displays and didn’t even mention it. Then we can just move on past this phase of migraines and headaches.

Besides the display, the main detraction to iPhone SE is its camera. On its own it’s perfectly fine and produces pleasant images that are better than the iPhone 8 sensor should be able to accomplish.

However, the difference with latter devices is breathtaking. The photos that I was able to take with iPhone 15 Pro were simply astonishing. It’s a massive night-and-day difference.

I’ve been looking at the DJI Pocket 3 as a capable sensor for video. I’ve had multiple DSLR’s and mirrorless cameras, but simply don’t use them compared to the iPhone in my pocket. How do other users compensate for not having the generational camera improvements? iPhone 15 Pro takes fantastic pictures with minimal adjustments. While I want similar or better quality, it ironically costs quite a bit to properly outdo an iPhone camera, for better or worse.

 

[Heman87]

It would be ideal if they released iPhone 16 with flicker-free displays and didn’t even mention it. Then we can just move on past this phase of migraines and headaches.

Besides the display, the main detraction to iPhone SE is its camera. On its own it’s perfectly fine and produces pleasant images that are better than the iPhone 8 sensor should be able to accomplish.

However, the difference with latter devices is breathtaking. The photos that I was able to take with iPhone 15 Pro were simply astonishing. It’s a massive night-and-day difference.

I’ve been looking at the DJI Pocket 3 as a capable sensor for video. I’ve had multiple DSLR’s and mirrorless cameras, but simply don’t use them compared to the iPhone in my pocket. How do other users compensate for not having the generational camera improvements? iPhone 15 Pro takes fantastic pictures with minimal adjustments. While I want similar or better quality, it ironically costs quite a bit to properly outdo an iPhone camera, for better or worse.

Yes, but I don’t get my hopes up. That’s what I mean with the most lazy tech company. They bring out new features or design and improvements so slowly. They are so rich but they just don’t do it. The fundament's are solid like the camera, build quality, security, iOS and the processor . But I hope I’m wrong. It will be perfect if they use DC Dimming above 70% brightness and a higher PWM than 480hz below 70% brightness

 

[kerplunknet]

Yes, but I don’t get my hopes up. That’s what I mean with the most lazy tech company. They bring out new features or design and improvements so slowly. They are so rich but they just don’t do it. The fundament's are solid like the camera, build quality, security, iOS and the processor . But I hope I’m wrong. It will be perfect if they use DC Dimming above 70% brightness and a higher PWM than 480hz below 70% brightness

We have very different ideas of what the word “perfect” means.

 

[timeconsumer]

I've been using the iPhone SE more (without issues) and my 15 PM less so I'm good with iOS devices for a little bit. Hopefully the 16 will bring relief, if not I'm ready and willing to switch over to an Android phone if I can find one that gets consistent security updates with decent specs. I'm even willing to pay Apple/Samsung prices for that.

 

[Heman87]

We have very different ideas of what the word “perfect” means.

Haha yes let me correct myself. I would be happy if they implemented dc dimming above 70% brightness 😅

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I’ll start by acknowledging what I’m about to type about is first world problem as it gets. I’ve purchased and returned the 15 PM more than I care to admit. The biggest reason I keep going back to it is the camera system. I’ve been going to many concerts and meetups and documenting my experiences has been a high priority. My 11 simply cannot deliver what the 15 PM can.

I have another stretch of concerts in a few weeks and I’m thinking about buying and keeping the 15 PM knowing at most it will fulfill the need for a camera (times I know in advance. My 11 will still have to be the camera ‘always on me’). Question, how irrational does that sound, in my situation? If stepping in my shoes knowing that capturing these memories is important to me, is keeping a $1400 phone for that purpose irrational? Should I consider what the 11 produces to be good enough for my uses (social media, watch on phone, upload to YouTube, etc)? I’m open to your feedback.
Note: a point and shoot camera isnt an option as not all venues allow them.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ll start by acknowledging what I’m about to type about is first world problem as it gets. I’ve purchased and returned the 15 PM more than I care to admit. The biggest reason I keep going back to it is the camera system. I’ve been going to many concerts and meetups and documenting my experiences has been a high priority. My 11 simply cannot deliver what the 15 PM can.

I have another stretch of concerts in a few weeks and I’m thinking about buying and keeping the 15 PM knowing at most it will fulfill the need for a camera (times I know in advance. My 11 will still have to be the camera ‘always on me’). Question, how irrational does that sound, in my situation? If stepping in my shoes knowing that capturing these memories is important to me, is keeping a $1400 phone for that purpose irrational? Should I consider what the 11 produces to be good enough for my uses (social media, watch on phone, upload to YouTube, etc)? I’m open to your feedback.
Note: a point and shoot camera isnt an option as not all venues allow them.

In six short months iPhone 16 will be released. It will have a better camera system and hopefully no or drastically improved display flickering. Realistically, the PWM/TLM/migraines will probably be exactly the same but there’s that hope with every new iPhone generation.

How bad are your symptoms to iPhone 15 Pro Max? I think back sometimes to how iPhone 15 Plus wasn’t quite as bad as most other OLED iPhones, but I’m mostly at peace with iPhone SE. I’ve grown more attached to it since adding an Abyss Blue Apple Silicone Case, and truth be told the display color calibration is gorgeous and vibrant.

Perhaps consider my solution to the camera dilemma: purchase a camera that’s superior with a larger sensor, like the DJI Pocket 3. Most venues only prohibit DSLR’s or cameras with interchangeable lenses in my experience.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

In six short months iPhone 16 will be released. It will have a better camera system and hopefully no or drastically improved display flickering. Realistically, the PWM/TLM/migraines will probably be exactly the same but there’s that hope with every new iPhone generation.

How bad are your symptoms to iPhone 15 Pro Max? I think back sometimes to how iPhone 15 Plus wasn’t quite as bad as most other OLED iPhones, but I’m mostly at peace with iPhone SE. I’ve grown more attached to it since adding an Abyss Blue Apple Silicone Case, and truth be told the display color calibration is gorgeous and vibrant.

Perhaps consider my solution to the camera dilemma: purchase a camera that’s superior with a larger sensor, like the DJI Pocket 3. Most venues only prohibit DSLR’s or cameras with interchangeable lenses in my experience.

I’d never head over of this DJI Pocket 3. I’ve been reading about it and it sounds super promising! Thanks!

 

[now i see it]

There’s plenty of dedicated cameras that are only cameras that cost more than $1400 — and they don’t fit in a pocket.
Just getting the 15PM to use as a camera is fine. Transfer the pictures later to a device that doesn’t blow out your eyeballs.

 

[iCantSee]

I’ve been rocking two phones for about a year now. iPhone 14 pro and an XR lol. Two phone numbers. When I need to read I use the XR. Camera etc. I use the 14. When I stare at the 14 I get headaches and also my eyes literally get blurry. It’s nuts.

Problem is my XR is basically about to die. Need to figure out another option. I may go with one of those random androids with a non oled display and then keep the iPhone 14 for iMessage an Apple ecosystem.

Just a total pain all around.

Is there any hope for the 16? Haven’t checked this thread in a while

 

[Heman87]

I’ve been rocking two phones for about a year now. iPhone 14 pro and an XR lol. Two phone numbers. When I need to read I use the XR. Camera etc. I use the 14. When I stare at the 14 I get headaches and also my eyes literally get blurry. It’s nuts.

Problem is my XR is basically about to die. Need to figure out another option. I may go with one of those random androids with a non oled display and then keep the iPhone 14 for iMessage an Apple ecosystem.

Just a total pain all around.

Is there any hope for the 16? Haven’t checked this thread in a while

I think the chances are like 25% that Apple will improve their screens. So I have a little faith and hope for Apple

My 11 is also dying. I’m also thinking of buying and android phone with much better PWM if apple doesn’t fix this issue. And maybe a small and cheap iphone for the apple services. I will be happy if the iPhone 16 will use DC dimming above 60% brightness so I can just use the phone with reducing white point and not buying a second phone.