I visited the Apple Store today and tried out the new MacBook Pro keyboards...

[smirking]

I'm going to enrage everyone. If you really care about your laptop keyboard feel, get an external keyboard or just learn to live with what you got. Why?

The keyboard you have after a few years is not the same as the keyboard you started with. It's quite common for people to dislike keyboards they loved when they were new or vice versa. That nice firmness you loved could degrade into either a wobble or a mush.

This is where I'm at. I'm OK with my M1's keyboard, but I preferred it when it was new and had crisp actions. It now rattles a bit when I type, which really irks me as a mechanical keyboard snob.

Also, you have no control over exactly what keyboard you're going to get. The same model is often built with components from different suppliers. Sometimes there are variations between sources, but even when they come from the same supplier, batches can vary from one to the other.

 

[Useless Touchbar]

I really miss my mushy keyboard from 2013 MBA. New ones are decent but I'd prefer the old keyboard

 

[smirking]

I really miss my mushy keyboard from 2013 MBA. New ones are decent but I'd prefer the old keyboard

LOL. I knew someone would chime in "but hey I like mushy!"

And that's common. It's all down to personal preference. I love my dozens of mechanicals. I used to geek out with other keyboard enthusiasts on keyboard forums, but I stopped going because I tired of the neverending headbutting over linear vs tactile vs clicky and so on. What makes a keyboard enjoyable to someone is a complex series of factors.

To be honest, there are some mushy keyboards I like too, but they have to be mushy in a specific way.

 

[Smartuser]

Gotta love how many threads on this forum start with garbage hot takes that look like they’re just posted here to make it to the front page and drive up “engagement“.

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

If there are no standards of excellence in keyboards that we can agree upon, then it will not be possible for us to discuss the progress or regress of excellence in keyboards. For example, if I said sitting in a comfy chair is preferable to sitting on a rock, but you said "everyone likes different things; some people like sitting on rocks", then there would be no agreed-upon standard of comfort we could discuss among seating options.

Luckily, keyboards are easy to review. One standard of excellence in keyboards is key travel. Comfortable keyboards have more of it. Uncomfortable keyboards have less of it. Apple's keyboards have less and less lately, and therefore are worse. If you want a more comfortable keyboard, Apple's newest keyboards, objectively, ain't got none.

But all those reviewers *have* agreed upon a "standard of excellence" and they all agree these MacBooks meet that standard. Now here's you rolling up saying "no no no, we need different standards! My standards!"

 

[sunapple]

Ah the internet, where opinions have to presented as facts.

 

[Fruit Stand]

And it's obvious to me that Apple has forgotten what a good keyboard is. Typing on the new 2023 Apple Silicon MacBook Pros is like typing on concrete! I'm afraid my next computer after this 2015 Retina MacBook Pro will be another 2015 Retina MacBook Pro. Might as well. They're perfect. Retina screen. Magsafe 2. HDMI. And most of all, a great keyboard!

I will have to wholeheartedly disagree and tell you that you’re in the minority.

I’ve owned the Unibody, Retina, currently own an M1 Air, Pro and 14 inch M1 Pro and the 14-inch M1 Pro has the BEST keyboard I’ve used on a notebook.

And going to the Apple Store to use a keyboard for 10 minutes doesn’t qualify your experience as valid VS. using the Retina MacBook over a long period of time.

 

[Fruit Stand]

Gotta love how many threads on this forum start with garbage hot takes that look like they’re just posted here to make it to the front page and drive up “engagement“.

It’s quite astonishing how much garbage is posted here and makes it to the front page 💀

 

[iPadified]

Why would they go through the trouble redesigning a product to only make it worse?

For whom? I like the short travels and really dislike the long travel keyboards.

 

[maflynn]

I don't hate the keyboard, but I don't love it either. I think its an improvement over the butterfly keyboard and for that I'm extremely thankful. If Apple still used that failed and broken technology, I'd not be owning a 14" MBP

 

[diggy33]

Since the pre-Unibody keyboard, Apple hasnt made a keyboard that I'd say I love typing on. For some reason, that old silver keyed keyboard still stands out to me as the best. The keyboard on the new MacBook Pro's is a very good one for me as well. Was never a fan of the butterfly keyboard, but I didnt hate it, probably because I never experienced a failure on any of the machines I owned with it.

 

[h.gilbert]

I've not tried the new 14" and 16" keyboards but I vastly prefer my 2016 butterfly over my 2014 Air's. The Air feels so mushy in comparison. The 2016 is nice and crisp.

 

[saintmac]

What also surprised me while I was at the Apple Store was that Apple's desktop keyboards are also stiff, with shallow key travel. There's no reason for that! A desktop keyboard's case can accommodate as generous a key travel as the designer wants. Moreover, previous desktop keyboards from Apple, even chiclet desktop models, had more generous key travel than what I typed on at the store. Why would they go through the trouble redesigning a product to only make it worse? Nothing was stopping them from making their latest desktop keyboard at least as good as their last one. I'm beside myself in disbelief.

I personally appreciate the fact that the desktop keyboards are very similar to the Macbook Pro ones.
This way I have the exact same typing experience whether my Macbook Pro is docked on a big display in my office or I'm on the go.
This is even more true with Apple Silicon Mac that let you have the exact same touch ID experience with a separate keyboard.

On a side note I don't understand why they aren't exactly the same and the desktop ones don't have inverted T arrow keys layout

 

[Juuro]

Luckily, keyboards are easy to review. One standard of excellence in keyboards is key travel. Comfortable keyboards have more of it. Uncomfortable keyboards have less of it. Apple's keyboards have less and less lately, and therefore are worse. If you want a more comfortable keyboard, Apple's newest keyboards, objectively, ain't got none.

I think you still confuse objectivity with your opinion.

For me for example more travel is not better. In fact I just recently tried a couple of (mechanical) gaming keyboards to see whats the fuzz about them. And I hated every single one of them. I just don't understand why you would like to have more travel than needed. For me less travel is always better as long as there is a defined pressure point. More travel means you need more time per key pressure. So for me Apples current keyboards on MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and Magic Keyboard are the best in their respective class I ever had. And yes, I had probably every MacBook Pro and Apple Desktop keyboard since 2006. I even liked the butterfly keyboard but their problem was that they were prone to dust and their pressure point got worse over time.

So please remember: You are talking about you, not everyone. Only because travel is important for you doesn't mean it is for everyone!

 

[unrigestered]

the keyboards are good, so are the ones of dozens other brands too though.
personally, i prefer the slightly mushier one on my M1 MBA over my MBP's.

and i might have imagined things, but for the brief time i was using an HP Elitebook at work, i swore it had a "superior" feeling than all of my current laptops (2x Macbook, 1x old Sony VAIO from 2010)
but of course those are still feeling great aswell

 

[dz5b609]

Ah the internet, where opinions have to presented as facts.

Opinions based on pressing a couple of keys in a store.

Must be nice being like TS so full of yourself that you really think you can form an good opinion based on a minute of typing in a store and then thinking you need to post that on a forum.

 

[Chester Stone]

I am not a big fan of the new keyboards after daily use for a year. M1 MacBook Pro has been my daily driver.

I make tons of typos on them, mainly from hitting adjacent keys -- a problem with key spacing, material texture/feel, and tactile feedback. They feel slippery, keys next to each other too close, and I always feel like my fingers are sliding around trying to intuit the right key. I hit a lot of adjacent keys touch-typing at normal speed.

The MacBook Pro w/Retina (2012~2015) and that generation of MacBook Air (even the 11-inch) had the best keyboards imo. Still the gold standard, in terms of key spacing, travel. I still type long emails and prose on it, with the fewer amount of typos and most pleasure. I sold off my M1 MBP just last week for $3000 and am back on my 2015 Retina MacBook Pro now, even though it's in its 7th year. It's night and day better.

I'm not old-fashioned -- I type developer documentation and write business books for a living, and I have tried changing to the newest, full-time, with an open mind. Sometimes, the quality drop just says otherwise, and this is a case where the proof is in the pudding. When you make noticeably more typos on a newer keyboard, one year later, it isn't you; it's the keyboard.

I agree with OP; it is subjective only to the degree that some people can tolerate poor ergonomic design more than another, but if you compared -- literally measured -- key travel, spacing between keys, and the number of typos you make typing at your normal speed after sufficient practice, then it isn't subjective, it's measurably objectively worse.

Don't listen to reviews. Listen to your fingers.

 

[RedTheReader]

In contrast to everyone else arguing with you, I’d like to offer some advice: try the Cherry mechanical laptop keyboard on the Alienware laptops. I think it’s also on the Corsair laptop and some of MSI’s new machines too now. It’s by far the best you’ll ever try, in my opinion.

 

[headlessmike]

I think 100% everyone will agree that the M1/M2 keyboards are better than the Butterfly before it.

But those who used the unibody keyboards from 2008-2015 will realise they were even better.

But those who used the aluminium PowerBook and MacBook keyboards from 2003-2006 prefer those more.

Personally, my favourite has to be the G3 iBook and Pismo Powerbook keyboards.

But don't expect most people to know what quality is, these days.

I preferred the feel of the Butterfly keyboards over the newer ones, but I'm weird I suppose. I'll admit though that they were flawed due to how often they failed. Most of my writing is done on a mechanical keyboard (Matias Quiet Click, it's the best!) or a mid 2000's white Apple Keyboard (A1048, the one prior to the chuckle designs), so I don't use the laptop keyboard that often.

The Powerbook keyboards were nice but a bit mushy in my opinion, I have my G4 right next to me for comparison.

 

[smirking]

Don't listen to reviews. Listen to your fingers.

That's exactly what's going on in this conversation and that's exactly why everyone is simply talking past everyone else and saying "No, you're wrong."

Keyboards are a matter of preference. While it's true there are some general ergonomic criteria that you can attempt to use as some objective criteria, even those are fudgey because people have different bodies, personalities, and unbreakable habits that affect what is and isn't ergonomic to them. I'm saying this as a former physical therapist who's treated hand injuries before.

 

[smirking]

I preferred the feel of the Butterfly keyboards over the newer ones, but I'm weird I suppose. I'll admit though that they were flawed due to how often they failed.

I'm one of you brother! We can be on team weirdo together! I absolutely hated them at first, but once I learned to type with a very light touch, they became a lot more pleasant to type on and I could do so with much less hand fatigue than I'd get otherwise. I was recovering from hand pain and that keyboard actually helped me get over my hand injuries.

I had 5 copies of that keyboard across 3 laptops. 2 had the infamous glitches, the other 3 worked just fine. One of them belongs to my wife who's an axe murderer of a typist and it's still doing just fine after 2 years of her sledgehammering it.

 

[maflynn]

I think it’s also on the Corsair laptop and some of MSI’s new machines too now. It’s by far the best you’ll ever try, in my opinion.

Thinkpad keyboards are awesome.

 

[Larsvonhier]

Thinkpad keyboards are awesome.

Atari ST super-mushy keyboards were... awesome. Back then. Especially with the audio click feedback from the good ´ol YM2149 PSG.

Fun aside, I really love my M1 Air 2020 keyboard, but as one poster already mentioned, now after 2 years it is not as snappy as it was and some keys start to rattle slightly. Still one of the best keyboards my Macs had in years.
(And yes, the silver capped MB keyboards had also something to them, still typing very relaxed and precise on them).

 

[Xand&Roby]

Opinions based on pressing a couple of keys in a store.

Must be nice being like TS so full of yourself that you really think you can form an good opinion based on a minute of typing in a store and then thinking you need to post that on a forum.

Opinions.
Even the mud against the butterfly keyboards were opinions, but just create the right engagement and all the influencers (and their gullible followers) will go in that direction to increase monetisation.
Or are there opinions that remain opinions and others that become facts? Ah, Internet.

 

[Yaboze]

I love my 2015, I wish I could swap the innards for Apple Silicon.