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layte

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2008
205
13
Biggest offender of this right now is Bioware which forces you to buy windows ... technically a 200 dollar + operating system just to play SWTOR. I partially blame EA because bioware were considering a mac client just before EA joined forces with them.
LAZY
uh-huh

Bioware have been owned by EA since 2007, and EA have been the ones bankrolling it along with Lucasarts.
 

inlovewithi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2009
615
0
While I appreciate all the efforts by feral and aspyr for bringing game to the mac its time developers to be responsible for their own product. Releasing games 6 months to a year later using cider and after the buzz has died down is a lazy poorly thought out way to do this. The apple market is just sitting there waiting to be treated equally. EA / Bioware is a great example of developers not giving a flying crap and is akin to segregation. It's like they intentionally avoid the revenue stream. I have paid for a lot of games on steam and the apple app store as well as gametree. I was prepared to buy first run games like MW2 or blackops. Indie developers put out more apps for macs than the well funded large developer houses so it can't be the money. And that BS about hardware/software doesnt fly with me. They can put first run crap on consoles that are 5 -6 years old (technically 7 because the consoles were tested for a full year housed in apple G5 towers i remember those E3 pics before the 360 was released). Putting a game on a brand new iMac that gets updated every year should not be a stretch. Biggest offender of this right now is Bioware which forces you to buy windows ... technically a 200 dollar + operating system just to play SWTOR. I partially blame EA because bioware were considering a mac client just before EA joined forces with them. They no doubt threw out the numbers of the quickly failing warhammer and got it in their head it wasnt worth it. here it is month after launch and they are "considering" a mac client but the truth is it will be too little too late.

LAZY

They're trying to make money. It's not like the PC gaming market is as big as console and you want them to spend that resource to focus on the Mac over Windows. Also, I wonder if you would have used the word lazy if Steve hadn't used it, since he used it so that his fans would repeat it over and over on the internet, forums, youtube, etc, in his personal fight against Adobe, and I guess it becomes a word used out of habit.
 

Exhale

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2011
512
145
But logical. Face the fact that Mac OS doesn't have the marketshare of Windows, or any of the consoles. Furthermore, the actual marketshare itself consists mostly of Laptops - many of those running on an Integrated GPU. Thats not even including those running older systems.

On top of this is a less efficient and much more limited graphics stack, that because of the way Mac OS operates does not permit for driver level optimizations and enhancements as is standard practice on Windows.

As a result, the number of people that can run modern games at a satisfactory level are few in number. And of those that can, they'll generally be content running it in Windows anyway (and possible on Linux).

Basically you increase complexity and decrease performance by porting to Mac OS, and you reach extremely few additional users by doing it.

For indie games its not as big of a problem due to their typical simplicity. The resource requirements as such are typically very low, any inefficiencies can be simply be overpowered, and advanced capabilities are rarely if ever used. Do note that most Indie games make minimal - if any - use of the GPU to begin with - so the weak GPU capabilities of Macs don't become an issue.

In addition, the typically low sales numbers (relatively) of Indie games means that even a few thousand sales to Macs will make a significant improvement. And due to the relative absense of games on mac OS, its easier to become visible to begin with, which is typically the biggest Indie challange.
 

Zulithe

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2010
69
5
San Francisco, CA
Happy to see all of the Steam love. I got the Steam version of Civ V GOTY edition (with steam play of course, so it works on both Mac & PC) for $20!! Then I snatched up some deeply discounted DLC, too.

The iOS store has some compelling sales now and then but I have never seen any good deals for Mac games on the Mac App Store.

Thank goodness for Steam.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
215
UK
DOOM 3 AVAILABLE ON THE MAC APP STORE!?!?! FOR £6? WHY WASN'T I INFORMED OF THIS!!!!

I think I've just wee'd myself a little.
 

star-affinity

macrumors 68000
Nov 14, 2007
1,931
1,221
Bring Quake Wars to the App Store! Down with key discs!

Off topic: I have that game, but never play it. Do you know of anyone who'd be interested in buying it?


On topic: good to hear the Mac App Store is doing well!

I would still like the option of games to be installed in /Games instead of /Applications since it really becomes messy with all apps plus games in one folder. I guess Apple wants us to use Launch Pad for organizing, but still - would be good to get some structure in the Finder too I think.
 

heisetax

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2004
944
0
Omaha, NE
Haven't bought a single thing via the MAS.

It doesn't have everything - not even close.

I'm sure it's great for many people. I'm just glad that Apple hasn't (yet) locked down so much that they only allow Apps to be installed via their MAS. Because, quite frankly, that would make me leave the platform.

I have only downloaded 1 program from the MAS. That is the Mac OS 10..7 Lion. And Lion is one of those programs that I'm not running now because it seems to be a down grade from either Mac OS 10.5 or 10.6.I don't want to pay Apple 30% of my spending dollar just to get applications that can & will not operate as good as they did before.

To me the MAS is a flop. After one year & they only have 8,900 applications. Also stated that the biggest selling programs were Apple's. That seems to mean that non-Apple programs are not doing very well. That may be because there are probably a lot of people like me that do not like much of anything about the Mac App Store.

These numbers are not like those from the iOS App Store. There we have downloaded 5-600 applications, but only about half a dozen or less have been paid for apps.
 

blow45

macrumors 68000
Jan 18, 2011
1,576
0
yeap, the mac app store hasn't taken up so much and is unimpressive, having said that the distribution method is a good thing.
 

SandynJosh

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2006
1,652
3
Yes. And it is far far better for the ignorant to think that the only possible way to get apps is from Apple's app store...

...because if they are that ignorant, they are probably too easy a victim for loading malware on their Mac and iPhone, especially if they look for apps at any other site.

you seem to be an expert on ignorance. There is no way to protect ignorant people from themselves. Would you believe that some ignorant people on this forum think it's possible to buy apps for a stock iPhone from anywhere else then Apple? Shocking isn't it!
 

SandynJosh

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2006
1,652
3
But logical. Face the fact that Mac OS doesn't have the marketshare of Windows, or any of the consoles. Furthermore, the actual marketshare itself consists mostly of Laptops - many of those running on an Integrated GPU. Thats (sic) not even including those running older systems.

The Mac currently enjoys 12.9% of the market of computers being sold, and, yes, that is smaller then the windows market share. However, for gamers, a huge share of the windows machines are corporate (and not allowed to have games loaded), and another big chunk of Windows machines are used for instrument control and are headless and lacking keyboards.

On top of this is a less efficient and much more limited graphics stack, that because of the way Mac OS operates does not permit for driver level optimizations and enhancements as is standard practice on Windows.

Again, Apple is focused on the mobile computer market where high-performance graphics impacts battery life. Apple has ceded the "gamer market" to other operating systems. It's a niche. They don't want it.

As a result, the number of people that can run modern games at a satisfactory level are few in number. And of those that can, they'll generally be content running it in Windows anyway (and possible on Linux).

You just confirmed that gaming is a niche market. The list of manufacturers serving that market is a short list and getting shorter as the years go by.

Basically you increase complexity and decrease performance by porting to Mac OS, and you reach extremely few additional users by doing it.

Poor Aspry is only selling hundreds of thousands of each of their games per year. I'm sure they should take your advice and just throw in the towel.

In addition, the typically low sales numbers (relatively) of Indie games means that even a few thousand** sales to Macs will make a significant improvement. And due to the relative absense (sic) of games on mac OS, its easier to become visible to begin with, which is typically the biggest Indie challange.

** Would you believe HUNDREDS of thousands?

Finally, lord only knows how those poor underpowered iPads, iPhone Touches, and iPhones manage to garner so many mobile gamers... Maybe there's a whole lot of gamers willing to come out of their mother's basement and walk in the sunshine.
 

Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,190
386
Indianapolis
Fair enough, I did know about the offline mode but never used it. However it still doesn't change the fact that for any online play it requires you to be connected to Steam. My point (which obviously wasn't written) was the MAS doesn't require you to be connected to it for any online use of the games/software you bought, Steam does. If I'm still wrong feel free to correct me.
Not every game in Steam uses Steam for matchmaking/multiplayer. How strong is the argument that you need to be logged into Steam to play online through Steam's own services?
 

Yamcha

macrumors 68000
Mar 6, 2008
1,825
158
I think now that Apple has a Mac App Store they should start using dedicated graphics cards on more of their machines..
 

Bernard SG

macrumors 65816
Jul 3, 2010
1,354
7
And how exciting is it that great apps like 1Password are dropping important features to fit in Apple's caged box?
Joseph Elwell.

Strangely, the developers of 1password are particularly enthusiastic about sandboxing:

Agile Bits was quick to add sandboxing support to its popular password locker app 1Password in anticipation of the original November deadline. While it took some work on the company's end, including a removal of some functionality and flexibility from the software, Agile Bits believes it was the right way to go.

"We're on board with the approach that customers shouldn't have to care about things like where their files are," Agile Bits spokesperson David Chartier told Ars. "Now that we've implemented it, down the road it's going to eliminate a ton of customer service problems for us, such as people putting their password store in a nonstandard place and then end up accidentally putting it in the trash or deleting it."

For instance, sandboxed apps can't open and close files in arbitrary locations on a user's disk without using the standard open/save dialog boxes. So, for 1Password to automatically open and write to its password database, it has to keep it in a special file system location that only it can use. This is similar to the restricted file system access imposed on iOS apps.

"A small portion of our power users are upset [about the change]," Chartier said, "and I think there are a few things Apple could do better to make things easier on both sides. But in general, we like the idea of sandboxing because its advantages in general security and simplifying things for the end user are worth it."
 

Slurpy2k8

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
383
0
Why are you so upset with them? Did not you know that not a single game developer cares about such an obscure OS as OS/X? Install Bootcamp (better yet, buy Windows PC) and move on.

Yeah, OSX is such an 'obscure' OS. Really now? Are you serious?
 

E.Lizardo

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2008
1,776
305
I'll be honest, I don't really like the Mac App Store.

The regular app store for iOS was ingenious. However, I also like the simplified, easy-to-use nature of iDevices. While I'm on the road, and dealing with small screen real estate, I don't want to have to mess with all the things I would on a regular operating system.

However, on my computer, its a different story.

1. The apps on MAS tend to be a lot more expensive. I don't like that.

2. I like to be able to back up the installer and use it again.

3. While I really like Apple products, a 30% seems pretty greedy to me, especially for higher ticket items.

Maybe its just my resistance towards turning OS X into iOS, and the movement against the file system -- I really don't like how iPhoto or the Mac App Store works -- but I'm not onboard with this.

If you are comparing it to Boxed software,30% is a pretty standard retail markup.Compared to direct downloads from developers,I would think the hosting,bandwidth,payment processing and MILLIONS of potential customers that can now more easily find the software would be well worth 30%.
 

sundragon

macrumors 6502
Dec 27, 2011
255
93
Washington, DC
No, it doesn't. And Aspyr is a Mac porting house, they don't make games, only port existing ones.

And their ports are slow and don't make efficient use of resources. I play Civ 5 on Bootcamp because the mac version is muuuuuuuuuuch slower even though it's on the same platform.

I would pay to have the game properly reworked to run on OS X, not make DirectX calls translated to OpenGL inefficiently...
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,341
Canada
In principle the Mac AppStore of course is a great idea.. unfortunately the restrictions on what an application can do, is not: sand boxing. Of course Apple are trying to secure the platform from malware - which is understandable, but IMO, Apple have gone too far. Many great applications will never see the light of day / or with reduced fuctionality - which has occured on many occasions. Apple need to rethink the balance between security and the permissions of an application.

Many new users won't know that you can get OSX applications from other sources, or be bothered ( i.e., Lazy, those people who would use Internet Explorer because its fed to them ).

Developers, in order to sell their applications, unless they are large known companies, i.e., microsoft, Adobe et al, will be increasingly forced to use the Mac AppStore otherwise they won't sell their software - hence control the platform by default. Apple cannot lock down OSX as they have done the iPhone, the MAS is the best next thing. The Mac AppStore is a way that Apple will control OSX applications.


...because if they are that ignorant, they are probably too easy a victim for loading malware on their Mac and iPhone, especially if they look for apps at any other site.
Absolute FUD. And you know it.
 
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thewitt

macrumors 68020
Sep 13, 2011
2,102
1,523
The Mac App Store has caused a number of companies to be able to continue in business due to expanded sales. This is not a bad thing...
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
In principle the Mac AppStore of course is a great idea.. unfortunately the restrictions on what an application can do, is not: sand boxing. Of course Apple are trying to secure the platform from malware - which is understandable, but IMO, Apple have gone too far. Many great applications will never see the light of day / or with reduced fuctionality - which has occured on many occasions. Apple need to rethink the balance between security and the permissions of an application.
Why? Good, worthy applications that cannot function well in a sandboxed environment can be distributed outside the app store. Apple does not have to serve every possible need.
 

Kaibelf

Suspended
Apr 29, 2009
2,445
7,444
Silicon Valley, CA
I don't want to pay Apple 30% of my spending dollar just to get applications that can & will not operate as good as they did before.

You and others keep whining about this 30%. So, you would prefer that the 30% went to some other retailer? Or are you so foolish that you think those shelves, real estate, stores, workers, and product delivery systems just pay for themselves? Ah, I see. You want to spend valuable time AND waste gas/transit energy to go into a building to get the exact same thing for the same or more money. Please, don't become a financial planner. :rolleyes:
 

jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,343
5,356
I think the Mac app store has been pretty good. Others have also mentioned Steam which I think is awesome. Onlive is also pretty amazing because I can play any game on my Mac, pc, and soon iPad. Anyway lots of choices.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,341
Canada
Why? Good, worthy applications that cannot function well in a sandboxed environment can be distributed outside the app store. Apple does not have to serve every possible need.

I mentioned the main reason why, but I'll expand - these developers will loose sales as MAS become more popular and people ( new users, less savvy users particularly ) stop looking outside for mac software. These types of software won't be developed if they can't be sold - that is, software will only be developed if it can get in the MAS - and conforming to Apple requirements ; OSX will suffer as a consequence: Ultimately too many developer restrictions hurts innovation, and reduces overall functionality. IMO - I've seen this on IOS - less varied range of software than on other smartphones ( i.e., an App can use less of the phone's hardware than other platforms, and general API restrictions ) - simply because of apple restricts.
 
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