No, it's not. You don't have a right to have your world bowdlerized. It's my world too.Bern said:
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Does a nursing baby offend you?
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vniow said:
That won't be a problem because I would have asked the restaurant manager to find a place for you to sit so I wouldn't have to endure it myself. Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary
I don't frequent McDonalds. If I wanted to sit with breast feeding mothers I'd visit the zoo and eat with the chimpanzees.Bern said:
That has nothing to with your spewing your class-ridden, hateful and misogynistic nonsense across these boards. You speak of having to endure the sight of breastfeeding? Christ, what a burden.
Completely pathetic and one of the most drama-queenish things I've ever had the misfortune to read on these boards.
And comparing breastfeeding mothers to chimps? Do you have any idea how ridiculously haughty and downright ugly that sounds?
And by any chance, have you ever referred to women as 'fish'?
Bern said:That won't be a problem because I would have asked the restaurant manager to find a place for you to sit so I wouldn't have to endure it myself. Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary
Why does SHE have to move? Why can't you ask to be moved to a different table? You would be a gentlemen by moving to another table and not burdening the women especially if she is breast feeding her baby. But, I guess you think the world revolved around you and everyone has to please you because you have rights.
Bern said:Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary
I'm willing to bet I have a bit more social awareness than you think and fint it a bit insulting that breast feeding women in public have less than you sem to assume than they do.
There's no right in this (or yours) country not to be offended. As from a previous example stated by you, what if I'm offended by a same sex-couple holding hands and being all cutesy like in public? Do I go up to them and tell then it makes me uncomfortable and want them to stop or do I turn away and suck it up because its really not that big of a deal.
If my breast feeding my child in public offens your sensibilities then oh well. There's no law saying I can't and there's no law that forces you to stare at me while I'm doing it. Like I said before, you're welcome to look or move away.
Blue Velvet said:
Fish?? What's that got to do with anything?
Perhaps this thread should have been titled "Nursing A Baby" rather than pose the question whether people find it offensive or not. Don't invite people to give their opinions when reading it can't be handled.
Bern said:
Your failure to recognise your own ugly prejudices and the complete lack of the very social awareness that you claim to possess, is the reason why people are so vehemently opposed to your views.
First, you claimed that your views were supported by some spurious medical evidence and when that was shown to be the sheer nonsense it was, you've reverted to equating breast-feeding mothers to 'chimps', demonstrating your snobbishness and complete immaturity when faced with the potential sight of a nipple.
I'm truly staggered that an adult can hold such views. You speak of rights when what you really mean is needs. Your need to be spared the horrendous vision of a baby being breastfed.
Bern said:
Bern, it's not that you can't be offended. If you're offended, bully for you.
The problem is that your argument is coming across as somewhat ... tactless at times. You have a claim -- that women shouldn't breast feed in public because it's offensive -- but you haven't given any evidence to support that claim outside of your own ego (that it's offensive to you). And that's making you resort to saying things you don't mean to say (I hope) -- like the zoo comment. You're reaching for a reason to support your opinion, but short of facts, you're left trying to either be funny or to make some sort of emotional appeal.
If you've got real reasons to support your claim that breast feeding in public is socially offensive/socially damaging, by all means, let's talk about it. But if the conversation is going to continue to orbit around "my opinion is my opinion and I don't care if I'm souding a bit sexist" then we're worse than not going anywhere.
Bern said:
I'm not the one eating, my kid is.
My point stands, there's no law or regulation that prevents me from nursing in public. Until there is then I will proceed to do so at my discretion and as long as I'm not making a display of it, don't you dare come up to be and tell me you find it offensive and should put it away for the greater public awareness of the rest of society.thedude110 said:
Well the question is "Does a nursing baby offend you?
My reply is "yes it does". How can it be that my finding it offensive is egotistical yet the responses to my initial reply are not? Is telling somebody they have no right to feel the way they do not egotistical?
Yes I do believe that breast feeding a child is a nurturing moment between mother and child and a moment for both of them enjoy and celebrate with one another not done in a public arena simply because it's not convenient for the mother. And yes I do find it unsavory to be seated at a restaurant when somebody I don't even know starts to feed her baby in front of me without consideration of the situation or the people around her. Some people simply do not want to be placed in that scenario. It doesn't mean they find it ugly or awful it just may be something that makes them uncomfortable.
It's just as unkind and thoughtless to pose a question and when someone disagrees with the current status quo to shoot them down and tell them they are wrong and have no rights to their opinion, in that situation you may expect that person to jump to the defensive.
I did say I appreciated people's comments and found their points of view to be somewhat valid, but to that the response was bigoted and self righteous just as these people claim me to be.
I stand by my point of view (as do many people who may not be as vocal as I) and will not venture further into this discussion here as my said narrow mindedness is being met by the same mind set as those who claim mine to be.
The world may be a smaller place, but cultural differences remain the same. It is those people who impose their cultural beliefs on others that create the havoc we see today. Some people just never learn.
Bern said:
Because you compared breastfeeding mothers to chimps and berated them for having no social awareness as well as stating that mothers were doing it purely for their convenience, as if they have to go out of their way to spare your tender feelings... and now you're playing the wounded card.
How you fail to see the absurdity of this is completely staggering.
I'm not entirely sure whether you mean it's your right to not want to sit next to someone breast feeding, as in you'll get up and leave, or whether you think the woman shouldn't breast feed there.Bern said:Here comes the linch mob
I have the right not to like breast feeding in public. It doesn't make me a monster or anything negative, it's simply my rights. I don't like it not because I find it offensive, but because I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing. People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's. And it is my right to not want to sit next to someone in a restaurant who is breast feeding.
I'm assuming you mean the latter.
Sure you have the right to be offended by something, but that doesn't mean you have the right to stop that something from happening if it's a perfectly natural activity.
What if I'm offended by people having tattoos, should I be able to force them to cover them up while I'm around them? What if I'm offended by children playing with toy guns because I think it trivialises violence, should I be able to tell my neighbours kids to stop doing it? What if I'm offended by women in public not covering up their hair, should I be able to force a jilbab on every woman in my vicinity?
Bern said:
Let's see... that baby is doing exactly what you are doing... EATING!
This bond you speak of that occurs when a mother feeds her child... it happens 4-5 times a day. You might want to cut the woman a bit of slack. She can 'cherish' this time anytime she wants to. The fact is, the mother is probably not feeding the baby to get the 'cherished' time. The baby, quite frankly, doesn't care when or where they get fed, so long as they get their needs met.
This is YOUR problem. YOUR hangup. Get over YOUR self. Leave the mothers and babies alone.
Bern said:
Once again, as is all too often, it's all about "me". While you're tearing into that bloody steak of yours, did you ever consider that the utterly dependent and helpless infant sitting across from you is also hungry? Honestly, I have to question whether or not you have, considering some of the truly appalling statements you've made. You continue to drone on and on about your "rights" versus the mother's rights, yet you conveniently disregard the child's.
BTW, feel free to show us where it says you have the right to not be offended.
i've been on both sides of the offensive question. when i was younger i saw a woman breast feeding and was uncomfortable with it. but i realized this was silly, the woman wasnt being sexual she was FEEDING her baby. i figured the problem was mine. later i became a mom and due to nutritional benefits and cost i chose to breast feed. i loved the bonding time but when we were out and baby became hungry it became a problem to find a quiet spot and "bond". most times the child is more interested in eating than "bonding". i got tired of being shut up in a little room by myself "feeding the baby". there is nothing wrong with eating. i try to be discreet but eating is eating. the problem lies with the offended. i am offended by women who wear next to nothing, breasts hanging out and others wouldnt think of saying, "could you put those away. Do you have to do that here?" why does a child have to starve or a mother hide in order to feed a baby? sexual is ok but nutritional is porn? weird.
Bern said:
Well, if she's at your table you could politely ask her to stop, you could also choose another table, read a newspaper, stack napkin holders into a wall.
Your right to not be offended has little weight because it conflicts so easily with others' rights and because you can choose not to be offended or you can remove yourself from the situation.
Your right to wave your arms only extends to my nose.
Bern said:
You have every right to go: "ewwww." However, you don't have the right to demand the woman across from you stop because she's infringing upon your rights. You don't have the right not to be offended, but you have every right to have an opinion and a physical reaction.
Think of a vegetarian who sits down at a deli. Across from her a man eats a steak sandwhich, a very rare steak sandwhich. Now her reaction can be disgust, but she cannot demand that the man stop eating his rare steak sandwhich, or cover his mouth, because her rights don't extend that far. He can be polite and wrap his sandwhich to go, or he can leave, but he doesn't have to. He can sit and merrily chomp on his sandwhich with gobs of A1 and fries to his heart's content.
Do you really want people to be able to demand others change simply to protect them from their fears and their hangups?
Just playing devil's advocate here, but there is no law against eating meat.hulugu said:
On the other hand, in most jurisdictions (in the US, anyway), there are indecent exposure laws that make it illegal for a woman to expose her breasts (usually, this means that the nipple is exposed to the air). So, the question is, do said laws make an exception for when a woman is breast-feeding?
Personally, I have nothing against women breast-feeding their children, but there are places where I would not consider it appropriate (in church, for example)... and they should all realize that some people may stare. It's human nature.
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