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MacBook Pro Upgrade At Photokina?

Let's All Go To The "Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?" Thread Now

suwandy said:
Forgive me for saying this, but I think this thread is starting to get out of topic. Meaning, no matter how much we discuss and discuss, Photokina is coming to a close and MBP is not out yet. From reading plenty of the posts here, rather than "upgrade at Photokina" it's more about "upgrade possible any Tuesdays", so why don't we switch over to the forum "Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?" ...

Not that I don't understand how some people are eager to get this thread going and hit the record, but then again, that isn't what we are all here for. It's for the imminent upgrade to the MBP.

I don't know why I'm saying this, perhaps it's because I'm starting to get bored of the conversation here, or perhaps I held my hopes too high for the upgrade at Photokina and got put down really hard to find my hopes are at the wrong end of the day.
Click to expand...
I agree that everyone should shift to the "Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?" thread. This topic is really obsolete now while the the above is spot on.

Some of us are over there as well as here. But I guess the best thing to do is for us to stop posting here and pledge to only post over there from now until the refresh when we will shift to the refresh announcement thread.

It's been swell here and it's great that there are so many posts although many are redundant because many late comers didn't take the time to read from the beginning. See you there where there are now 25 pages up to 604 posts.

I admit to being burnt out. But I will hang in there. :)
 
I dont understand all these people who keep bringing up the fact that Leopard is 64 bit. So you have a 64 bit OS running on a 64 bit processor. The comparasions between XP-32 and XP 64 shows that while 64 bit optimized code executes somewhat faster, the overall "speed boost" is insignificant. At this time, and for the next 2 years, the only real advantage to having 64 bits is the memory allocation, which is null and void on a Macbook Pro due to its physical limitations. Until someone releases 4GB So-DIMMs, or Apple adds in 4 DIMM slots with support for current 2GB so-DIMMs, the fact that 64 bit can allocate more RAM is completely moot. If they drop in C2D tomorrow, you're still SOL until Apple provide support for 2 gigers, or higher gig sticks are created.

Perhaps Apple knows this, and are waiting on something new. Maybe back to on-board RAM (1-2GB) and 2 empty onboard slots? I think people are in the mode of "but it's better," and while true it would be the same if I had a McLauren F1 Enzo imported to a country with nothing but dirt roads. It might be better, but youre going to have to do a crap load of infrastructure changes to make it worth it. So in this light, here is the roadmap I see.

1. Update before Holiday with a speedbump or pricedrop. Maybe a new trinket like a better Video Card. (Alternate ... C2D along with firmware update that allows the MBP to support 4GB max with 2 x 2GB modules)

2. Q1 2007 we'll see C2D with some sort of redesign that will allow more RAM, say 4-8GB max instead of 2GB. This release may come with the iTV and will be 2-3 months prior to Leopard's launch.
 
FWIW.. I have a friend who works for Apple in sales. I emailed him about the possibility of new Macbook Pros soon... he told me he didnt have any specific info on new Macbook Pros being imminent BUT... he did say they are having a sales meeting in Cupertino NEXT WEEK (week of Oct 2th)...

Being in sales myself, "sales meetings" usually proceed new product launches etc...

Pure speculation on my part, but I wouldnt be surprised to see a Apple Special Event announced for mid-late October....

Food for thought.. some fact and some speculation.....
 
Abraxsis said:
I dont understand all these people who keep bringing up the fact that Leopard is 64 bit. So you have a 64 bit OS running on a 64 bit processor. The comparasions between XP-32 and XP 64 shows that while 64 bit optimized code executes somewhat faster, the overall "speed boost" is insignificant. At this time, and for the next 2 years, the only real advantage to having 64 bits is the memory allocation, which is null and void on a Macbook Pro due to its physical limitations.
Click to expand...

I can't see you convincing anyone frankly. The 32-bit refuseniks have been dealing out this stuff repeatedly already. I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. As a side note, 64-bit XP is dire, & I mean that generally :)

Abraxsis said:
1. Update before Holiday with a speedbump or pricedrop. Maybe a new trinket like a better Video Card. (Alternate ... C2D along with firmware update that allows the MBP to support 4GB max with 2 x 2GB modules)

2. Q1 2007 we'll see C2D with some sort of redesign that will allow more RAM, say 4-8GB max instead of 2GB. This release may come with the iTV and will be 2-3 months prior to Leopard's launch.
Click to expand...

Yikes! :eek: I'm not liking option 1 without C2D. I'd be waiting for option 2 in that case. 4Gb would be great, but stick price is a problem. Interesting though, thanks.
 
Next Tuesday?

So with the fiscal year change coming up soon...

Who's getting excited with me about next Tuesday! (Oct 3rd)??

Neuroguy


PS. If they don't come out with one next Tuesday....I'll.. I'lL... I'll... be waiting until the Tuesday after that.
 
S i said:
I can't see you convincing anyone frankly. The 32-bit refuseniks have been dealing out this stuff repeatedly already. I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. As a side note, 64-bit XP is dire, & I mean that generally :)
Click to expand...

He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.
 
S i said:
... I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. ...
Click to expand...
So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)
 
shecky said:
ahh, i did not realize that october was the start of FY for apple; that makes it even slightly more likely in my mind. i hope so; i just got my OEM copy of Win XP in anticipation of my first Intel Mac and Half-Life 2; now its just sitting on my desk waiting for a home.
Click to expand...


To be honest, I don't know what the deal is with starting a FY at the beginning of Q4 in the calender year.

Some businesses do it that way, some don't. Since I'm not a CPA, I have no idea the advantage or reasoning for it.


Anyway, I guess I'll drag my feet to the other thread.
 
MrFrankly said:
He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.
Click to expand...

Non technically, they're faster because they run my software faster. Also, I don't find it "totally right" that the only real advantage is addressable space.

DavidCar said:
So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)
Click to expand...

Your mileage will vary, but certainly in the short term you're probably looking at the kind of smaller improvements that have been touted around. In my case however, I'm thinking more of Fink, Darwin ports, & other open source projects. I'm developing Mac applications now, but my experience is mostly at enterprise server level. Having said that, you should get good results from audio/video transcoding for example, which lots of MBP Pro users might be doing.

Neuroguy said:
I like that, I'll add it, with respect, to my tagline...
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks :eek:

Dinner time soon, so ciao for now
 
Some hope left?

Gelsinger said Apple's MacBook Pro was the last product in which the two companies worked closely. "We've just gotten that done, but a number of projects are under way with Apple on next-generation technologies -- but I can't detail those," he said. "Apple is very secretive, even to us. It's the nature of the company."

It's unclear if Gelsinger was referring the MacBook Pro models released in February or the revised Core 2 Duo models due in the next six weeks. However, with Intel believed to have been largely responsible for Apple's Mac Pro released last month, it's likely he is implying the latter.

- James
 
October 9th?

First time poster, long time lurker.

As soon as the c2d mbp come out i will finally switch to apple. i've always thought that macs were attractive but since they've switched to intel chips and can run windows (i need this for work) i've decided to switch. I, like many of you, am anxiously waiting cash-in-hand to rush to the apple store and get a laptop.

Yes, I could get a cd mbp, but if i'm gonna spend $2,800.42 (w/taxes and edu discount), the second most expensive thing i've ever bought (cars was the most expensive $3,500 used honda civic), and the most i've ever spent on computer(s). I really, really want the most for my money.

Anyways,

i went over to alienware to see what they had and although it looks tempting (power not looks) i think i can hold out a couple more weeks before i lose it.

here is some info.

their Area 51 C2D 17" laptop (nothing custom) has an Estimated Ship Date of October 09. Their Area 51 C2D 15.4" laptop ships October 12.

note: both can be customized with a WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD!!
 
I'll bite...

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or something.

A 64 bit operation takes the same amount of time as it's 32 bit equivalent. That's the point. A 64 bit increment will take the same time as a 32 bit increment. Same for loads and stores. 64 bit processors doing 32 bit operations don't go any faster or slower. An op is an op is an op.

The point is that you can operate on 64 bits rather than 32. Now does this matter for every application? Nope. Does it matter in certain circumstances? You bet your bippy. Why do you think that GPU's have gone 16 bit -> 32 bit -> 64 bit -> 128 bit -> 256bit ... faster than general computer CPU's? Because it matters! Why are scientific computing people interested in off-loading tasks to GPU's? Same reason. An op is an op is an op.

MrFrankly said:
He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.
Click to expand...
 
DavidCar said:
So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)
Click to expand...

Right now, no.

At the moment all GUI programs (andd hence all cocoa programs) for Tiger and all earlier versions of OS X can only run in 32-bit mode because the graphical portions of the OS only run in 32-bit mode.

Come the advent of leopard you may discover a significant improvemnt with 64-bit code.
 
ckodonnell said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or something.
Click to expand...

I was not being sarcastic.

You are right that an operation on a 64 bit CPU and a 32 bit CPU could take the same amount of time. This of course very much depends on the implementation, but it’s a valid assumption.

The problem is, with context switching, you’re copying the currently active data from the registers in your CPU to an other place for storage so you can run an other process. If your lucky this register storage will be your CPU cache (which is fast, but not as fast as the cpu), but often this will move to your RAM (which is fast, but not as fast as the cpu cache) when the data gets too big. When you have 32 bit registers your currently active data is usually* smaller then when you move 64 bit registers. So with 64 bit values your cache will be full much faster and move into slow RAM.

So as long as you stay in your CPU 32 bit or 64 bit won’t matter. But when you’re doing multitasking and are concerned with matters of context switching then 64 bit can be slower.

The point I am trying to make isn't that 64 bit is always slower. Just that it isn't faster by definition. Of course there are great uses for 64 bit computing but that wasn’t my point. I just laugh a little when people say that their computer is so fast because it’s 64 bit.

* as always in computer science, there are exceptions.
 
Glenny2lappies said:
I finally had to say something... This wait is really frustrating - I've been waiting all summer for the Merom, and now it's getting rather tedious.

I've noticed that Sony have finally started to fight back after sleeping for so long. Not that I'm that interested as I've caught the Apple bug (not sure if it'll develop into full case of Jobitus though). However, these do look very interesting and I think give weight to the feeling that Apple are going to do something about the (slightly) dated looks of the MBP. Lets face it, three years is a very long time for the same basic design (even though it's timeless elegance, etc.)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/29/hw_sony_vaio_c_series/

I personally feel that anyone with a lifestyle doesn't have either. And El Reg is superbly sarcastic to this effect. But... I wonder if this may lead some more shallow 'trendy' people to move away from buying an Apple and on to a Vaio?
Click to expand...

Sony Fights back? That'll take years to overcome Apple, if they ever could. :)

Me thinks they should handle their batteries issues first, like y'know, provide the right batteries to their clients, like Apple & Toshiba.

Apple could sue Sony in this way ... too bad they didn't
 
MrFrankly said:
The problem is, with context switching, [...]
Click to expand...

Not just context switches. 64bit addresses (and thus pointers) are twice as big.

That means you're fetching more data. That can add slowdown.

However, in the case of Intel64 (which is the new name for EM64T, apparently... copy AMD much, did they? ;)), you get double the register set including double the SSE registers.

That alone can be slower in the case of a context switch as it's now approx four times the amount of data.

However, it can also result in a major speedup, and since we're talking Intel here, we're talking a register-starved design from the outset. As with most of my responses on how new CPUs etc. might affect things, "it depends what you're doing" :)
 
Another Sign??

A buddy of mine purchased a MBP in July. This was his first mac and I had been trying to get him to switch for a long time. I saw him again in August and he told me that he was having issues with his display going out. He called Applecare, they walked him through some troubleshooting and it seemed to go away, only to come back a couple of days latter. He suffered through it to finish some projects and sent his MBP in for service two weeks ago. On Monday of this week, he called Apple to check on it as it showed "Pending Shipment" for several days. The told him that they were in fact waiting on a backordered part, but to call back by Thursday if he didn't receive it. He called back last night and told them that he either needed his machine fixed and returned or he wanted a new machine. The rep said that at this point they were willing to give a new machine, but that the 17" was backordered and it would take longer to get a new one than get the part to fix his. I know that the apple store still shows a 24hr ship time on those, but maybe it's a sign that stock is indeed dwindling and we are on the horizon for the new MBP!

I've been waiting to buy since July and am just trying to be patient with the rest of you! Today has been good though, because I ordered a Mac Pro and it wasn't supposed to be here until next Wednesday - FedEx just dropped it off...so I'm off to see how fast it really is!!!

My gut is that we'll see new MBPs within the next 3 weeks!
 
!!!!

is this the end of this? oh no. did all migrate while i was away from the internet? now where i am going to hear all about how the MPB C2D is going to come out after the Powerbook G5?!!?!?! ;) :p :D
 
Decent Deal?

Hi Everyone,

I hate to post this here, but I am getting really sick of waiting for my 1st Mac. I want a MMBP, but the thought of waiting until the "holiday season" is driving me bananas.

With a work discount, I could get the following,

15" MacBook Pro 2.1GHz + 3-yr AppleCare
for $2387+tax.

Is this a good enough deal to jump at, or should I wait?

Thanks for the advice

Neuroguy
 
Neuroguy said:
Is this a good enough deal to jump at, or should I wait?
Click to expand...
If you need a computer now, then that's a good deal and i'd go for it. However, if you don't really NEED one and could conceivably hold out for maybe (months?) then i would say wait. The other option is to buy that one, and try to sell it if the updated MBP proves to be THAT much better than the one you have. With your discount you probably wouldn't lose too much on the sale.
 
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