MacBook Pro Upgrade At Photokina?

[barkins]

Well everyone, I went to my local Apple Store just outside of Boulder, CO and personally asked the rep there about C2D updates and he basically said they should be in by the Holiday season.

I've come to the conclusion that the people who work at the Apple Store know as much as we do about this entire fiasco.

 

[ergle2]

In the recent Apple Insider report about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

Apple's notoriously secretive. I'd bet cash on us seeing an SR-based MBP.

Apple still hasn't officially announced a C2D-based laptop either -- do you doubt it will happen too?

This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

I'm sure they will at some point, but not in the near future. AMD doesn't have the capacity, and their current systems simply aren't terribly competitive -- and they don't currently supply a complete platform.

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

Too expensive, and Apple's big advantage is MacOS X. One of the reasons Apple moved to Intel was to get away from the kinds of costs associated with such things. Plus, Intel wouldn't sign a deal with someone who has sub-5% share worldwide and significantly less in the server market -- which is where the real high margins are.

Beyond this, being able to run Windows on the same hardware is actually a major reason Apple's kit is selling so well right now.

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

Cell wouldn't perform terribly well for general purpose computing. Look at where Intel is going with Kentsfield et al. 4 real cores vs 1 full core and some slaves that are very limited -- especially with the poor yield that Cell reportedly was achieving.

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino

Apple's not that small. They shift serious numbers of laptops.

Apple went with Intel because there were the most viable options for the mobile market, which is the big consumer market today and is still growing.

Apple's uniqueness is that unlike any other PC maker, they also write their own OS and software. Everyone else is making hardware for Windows, and the apps are by MS, Adobe, etc.

Apple's the only one selling to the consumer market that does this. Right there is their uniqueness -- and that's why Dvorak et al claiming Apple will eventually move to Vista is wrong.

 

[macman2790]

In the recent Apple Insider report about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino

I see your point on #2. Possibly the macbook pro will get NAND flash ram and possibly their own unique chipset on the next upgrade. After reading about a samsung notebook in another thread that's only available in korea (i think), it already has Flash technology on it. I think apple may have something up its sleeve on this update.

One question on santa rosa though: Will it only run the ultra low voltage meroms which have lower clockspeeds around 1.5 with 800mhz fsb, or will they also run with the current merom clock speeds that should already be in the macbook pro?

 

[AppliedVisual]

Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release

Well, yes... As you said, next tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter...

The following tuesday would be because their marketing guys were slow on the draw.

The tuesday after that would make sense because Jobs suddenly wants to hold a press event for the MBP update.

The tuesday after that would be optimal for holiday shopping to kick into gear... After all, a lot of retailers feel that the last full week in October is when the big shopping season really begins.

And finally, 10/31 would make sense because once again it plays a huge role with holiday shopping. And what better day to pick if you want to really spook your competition.

OK, it's late and I'm not making much sense....

 

[S i]

Not to rain on the parade, but did anyone notice this tidbit:

"Before embarking on its next-generation notebooks in 2007, Apple later this year will refresh both its MacBook and MacBook Pro lines with Intel's new Core 2 Duo mobile processors." Meaning no new enclosures/design with the C2D upgrade

From Flash Laptop article on AppleInsider

I'm kind of hoping that "next generation" there is just referring back to the Intel next-gen plaform mentioned at the start of the article. Kind of hard (or maybe just undesirable?) to believe they will simply swap in a Merom without addressing some of the existing MBP issues.

It's going to look real bad for Apple if the Merom refresh hits the same problems the existing line has had. Apple's detractors made a lot of noise about it the first time around, & it would be even worse the second. No, I'll think positively until I know otherwise, & guess that they're ironing out some issues on top of a chip swap.

I'll probably get a C2D iMac to tide me over until there's an MBP/MB release that suits in any case.

 

[ergle2]

I see your point on #2. Possibly the macbook pro will get NAND flash ram and possibly their own unique chipset on the next upgrade. After reading about a samsung notebook in another thread that's only available in korea (i think), it already has Flash technology on it. I think apple may have something up its sleeve on this update.

One question on santa rosa though: Will it only run the ultra low voltage meroms which have lower clockspeeds around 1.5 with 800mhz fsb, or will they also run with the current merom clock speeds that should already be in the macbook pro?

Santa Rosa is a platform, not a chipset.

Merom is part of that platform.

 

[jfsouza]

Well, yes... As you said, next tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter...

The following tuesday would be because their marketing guys were slow on the draw.

The tuesday after that would make sense because Jobs suddenly wants to hold a press event for the MBP update.

The tuesday after that would be optimal for holiday shopping to kick into gear... After all, a lot of retailers feel that the last full week in October is when the big shopping season really begins.

And finally, 10/31 would make sense because once again it plays a huge role with holiday shopping. And what better day to pick if you want to really spook your competition.

OK, it's late and I'm not making much sense....

I still maintain it will be the London Expo, for the MacBooks at least, if the MBPs aren't updated earlier.

 

[macman2790]

Santa Rosa is a platform, not a chipset.

Merom is part of that platform.

got a little mixed up in my words there i did mean platform though thanks for the correction

 

[ergle2]

got a little mixed up in my words there i did mean platform though thanks for the correction

My point is, Merom's part of SR, just like Yonah or Merom are part of Napa.

 

[S i]

You know speaking of the mighty mouse, you wonder why they chose to use a scroll ball.... i mean scroll balls haven't been used in mice in any way shape or form for years... you'd think the mighty would have used either a wheel or something touch sensitive like the iPod

A wheel wouldn't cut it for me - I can't go without horizontal scrolling now I have it. I do think the two finger scrolling on the notebook line is great.

I also have a cordless optical trackman here, but what I don't get about it is the scroll wheel. They could do with dropping the wheel & having the scroll lock switch the trackball to panning mode. What are they thinking?! The driver could easily have some "tolerance" to enable smooth vertical/horizontal scrolling with the trackball (i.e. stops trackball moving page to side when only vertical required). Or am I being dumb here?

On a positive note, "the ball" is back in business

 

[ergle2]

A wheel wouldn't cut it for me - I can't go without horizontal scrolling now I have it. I do think the two finger scrolling on the notebook line is great.

My current wheel mice do horizontal scrolling... wheel just tilts.

Personally, I dislike the Mighty Mouse. I prefer real microswitched buttons.

Agree with you about the notebook scrolling tho' -- much better than the "zone" stuff on most systems.

 

[S i]

My current wheel mice do horizontal scrolling... wheel just tilts

Tried the diagonal scrolling on it?

 

[ergle2]

Tried the diagonal scrolling on it?

Nope. I rarely use the horizontal, I was just remarking that they did it

 

[S i]

that's why Dvorak et al claiming Apple will eventually move to Vista is wrong.

Frightening prospect Completely wrong I agree

 

[S i]

Nope. I rarely use the horizontal, I was just remarking that they did it

J/k. It's my fault - I really should be respecting the 80 character line length coding conventions

 

[ergle2]

J/k. It's my fault - I really should be respecting the 80 character line length coding conventions

Heh. Quite.

I'm mostly a keyboard warrior -- my mice are for photoshop and gaming <G>

 

[S i]

Heh. Quite.

I'm mostly a keyboard warrior -- my mice are for photoshop and gaming <G>

Speaking of keyboards, I've got a beef with the Apple UK keyboard. The return key sticks. On UK keyboards, return is tall & a little wider (rather than wide), & having a switch at top/bottom leaves the key poorly supported if you know what I mean. You've really got to hit it squarely in the middle, else the key won't go down properly.

I'm still not used to where the octothorpe is either, & getting beginning/end of line semi-consistent takes work. Errr....sorry, am being off-topic

 

[S i]

I still maintain it will be the London Expo, for the MacBooks at least, if the MBPs aren't updated earlier.

I'm thinking about coming back to UK for it. I'm getting a nagging feeling that Merom is a way off yet, & the Expo makes sense. I'm trying to "find my cave" somewhat until they appear

 

[ergle2]

Speaking of keyboards, I've got a beef with the Apple UK keyboard. The return key sticks. On UK keyboards, return is tall & a little wider (rather than wide), & having a switch at top/bottom leaves the key poorly supported if you know what I mean. You've really got to hit it squarely in the middle, else the key won't go down properly.

I'm still not used to where the octothorpe is either, & getting beginning/end of line semi-consistent takes work. Errr....sorry, am being off-topic

You'll hate me, but I use MS keyboards...

I like their "ergonomic" wireless keyboards -- I find them a lot more comfortable to use.

 

[S i]

You'll hate me, but I us MS keyboards...

I like their "ergonomic" wireless keyboards -- I find them a lot more comfortable to use.

Not at all! Go with what works I say! Did you have any key remapping issues to get over?

I have an IBM thinkpad ultranav external USB keyboard, which is great, but I couldn't find a way to map a sensible IBM key to act as an apple key. The function key would be ideal, but it wasn't generating codes that were being seen by OS X. There is no Windows key on it. Shame really, as I could really motor on XP/Linux with it, partly due to the trackpoint being at my fingertips.

 

[FaziBear]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release

Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I agree that being the beginning of the fourth quarter it would make sense to have apple release the new MBP's. At the same time however, if we really think about it, and you can trust me on this people, i work in finance and analyzing the market is my 70 hour a week job, for companies like apple promoting BEFORE the technical start of the fourth quarter would actually lead to the largest amount of revenue. Hint hint...why do you think Imacs and Ipods were released FIRST.

Marketing through ads and word of mouth take time to spread around and apple doesn't want to waste its precious forth quarter on building demand. let the market get saturated with apple hysteria, thanks to back to school rushes, word of mouth, and a plethera of ads, and then watch your numbers jump off the board when the fourth quarter roles around. the point is that you want yours sales to be at their peaks by the holidays. this is why historically fall has been a prime time for new releases by a lot of companies, not just apple. it depends on the type of product electronics generally need more time...they cost more hence people need time to save, toys on the other hand (the cheap kind) can come out in october, even november and still catch on fire in time.

so i guess im torn, tuesday sounds good marketing wise, and by God i hope you're right, but i can't help but think that every tuesday from now till january will be the BEST marketing week LEFT for apple. yet for some reason there wasnt and still arent any signs that theyre going to be released soon. i just take it as MBP's dont sell enough to get their own marketing strategy independent of other products. Maybe theyre simply lumping them WITH the updated MB's to get more attention when thanksgiving roles around?

 

[jfsouza]

Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I agree that being the beginning of the fourth quarter it would make sense to have apple release the new MBP's. At the same time however, if we really think about it, and you can trust me on this people, i work in finance and analyzing the market is my 70 hour a week job, for companies like apple promoting BEFORE the technical start of the fourth quarter would actually lead to the largest amount of revenue. Hint hint...why do you think Imacs and Ipods were released FIRST.

Marketing through ads and word of mouth take time to spread around and apple doesn't want to waste its precious forth quarter on building demand. let the market get saturated with apple hysteria, thanks to back to school rushes, word of mouth, and a plethera of ads, and then watch your numbers jump off the board when the fourth quarter roles around. the point is that you want yours sales to be at their peaks by the holidays. this is why historically fall has been a prime time for new releases by a lot of companies, not just apple. it depends on the type of product electronics generally need more time...they cost more hence people need time to save, toys on the other hand (the cheap kind) can come out in october, even november and still catch on fire in time.

so i guess im torn, tuesday sounds good marketing wise, and by God i hope you're right, but i can't help but think that every tuesday from now till january will be the BEST marketing week LEFT for apple. yet for some reason there wasnt and still arent any signs that theyre going to be released soon. i just take it as MBP's dont sell enough to get their own marketing strategy independent of other products. Maybe theyre simply lumping them WITH the updated MB's to get more attention when thanksgiving roles around?

Very good post - I agree completely. I remember during October last year Apple released some stuff... I forget what though.

 

[S i]

Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I think there are issues beyond marketing "pulling the trigger". Argh, don't like that phrase (yet just used it, I know). My money is on ironing out the mooing, whining, heat etc issues. Interesting post though, thanks

 

[suwandy]

*crosses fingers*

My MacBook Pro left Alaska 8 hours ago! Here's to hoping it arrives Friday and not Monday!

Forgive me, I'm happy to have a current MBP and not a new one. Its my first Mac (sorta, I have a Mac now, but its not mine)

heh, your iPod is a Mac you know

 

[suwandy]

Forgive me for saying this, but I think this thread is starting to get out of topic. Meaning, no matter how much we discuss and discuss, Photokina is coming to a close and MBP is not out yet. From reading plenty of the posts here, rather than "upgrade at Photokina" it's more about "upgrade possible any Tuesdays", so why don't we switch over to the forum "Full laptop refresh by Holidays" or something?

Not that I don't understand how some people are eager to get this thread going and hit the record, but then again, that isn't what we are all here for. It's for the imminent upgrade to the MBP.

I don't know why I'm saying this, perhaps it's because I'm starting to get bored of the conversation here, or perhaps I held my hopes too high for the upgrade at Photokina and got put down really hard to find my hopes are at the wrong end of the day.