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Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder

Do You Own or Plan To Own A Sony HDR-HC7 HDV Camcorder?

  • Total voters
    184
Multimedia said:
For your own research or prep to getting this camera here is a link to a PDF of the 115 page Sony HDR-HC5/HC7 Operating Guide.

And here's the link to the home page of the new HDR-HC7 Community website.

Plus here's the link to a whole bunch of HC7 threads at the Sony HDV Info website's HC7 Forum

Also Download the Spec Comparison Chart Among Top Sony FX1 - FX7 - HC5 - HC7 HDV Camcorders here.
Click to expand...

thanx for the tips ;) this looks like the one for me...

i downloaded the manual and it says you can record to the memory stick duo 4gb? about how much recording time is that? 30 min? 1 hour? 2 hours?

thanx..

in my situation i will be by a computer to transfer the data quickly...
 
Memory Stick PRO Duo™ Recording Is Only For Stills

DrGruv1 said:
thanx for the tips ;) this looks like the one for me...

i downloaded the manual and it says you can record to the memory stick duo 4gb? about how much recording time is that? 30 min? 1 hour? 2 hours?

in my situation i will be by a computer to transfer the data quickly...
Click to expand...
That's only for recording still images not video. Sorry. But I agree with you it would have been a good idea for that option to be there. Brilliant! Could do about 18 minutes in 4GB. HDV's about 13GB an hour same rate as DV but completely different data format.
 
Multimedia said:
That's only for recording still images not video. Sorry. But I agree with you it would have been a good idea for that option to be there. Brilliant! Could do about 18 minutes in 4GB. HDV's about 13GB an hour same rate as DV but completely different data format.
Click to expand...

Do you need a HDV cam to playback/transfer HDV recordings or will an SD cam do it too (over firewire)?

Just thinking about saving the heads...
 
Yes You Need A HDV Camcorder or Deck To Play/Transfer HDV Recordings

EricTheRed71 said:
Do you need a HDV cam to playback/transfer HDV recordings or will an SD cam do it too (over firewire)?

Just thinking about saving the heads...
Click to expand...
Yes. Going to have to buy a second HDV camcorder (cheap <$1k) or a HDV deck (expensive $2-3k) like a Sony HVRM15U (no consumer decks for sale yet) for only $1800 at B&H to do a lot of playback/transfer time that won't prematurely kill the heads on your primary HC7 camcorder. For this function, I'm thinking of the 24p capable Canon HV20 that ships in April for only $1100 list but still has HDMI and analog component video outs as well as FireWire or a new Sony HC3 (closeout deals) or HC5 ($1100 list) would do as well. Only downside to the Canon HV20 is a missing LANC port so it can't be driven by an external zoom on/off controler on a tripod for example. Because of the Blackmagic Design Intensity, DeckLink HD Studio HDMI i/o PCIe cards and On-Air software, I'm thinking of buying 3 HC7 camcorders anyway.

ALERT: Just found the close up of the Sony HVRM15U rear output set. Bad news. This deck has NO HDMI i/o or even just OUT. So I strongly rule against buying this deck. A new model with HDMI out is certain to follow soon. So I think a second camcorder with HDMI OUT is going to have to function as the short term HDV deck this year. Hope we see a lot new models at NAB and consumer models at the next January '08 CES.
 
Multimedia said:
That's only for recording still images not video. Sorry. But I agree with you it would have been a good idea for that option to be there. Brilliant! Could do about 18 minutes in 4GB. HDV's about 13GB an hour same rate as DV but completely different data format.
Click to expand...

you know it's funny... on page 93 of the manual (me being an audio guy) when it said recording and playback on the memory stick - i thought it meant video also ;) - i didn't think of recording pictures as 'recording'

thanx for the straight talk and setting me right
 
Multimedia said:
The sensor on the HC7 - link to details is 52% larger than the sensor on the HC5 - link to details.

HC5 sensor is 2.1 Megapixels
HC7 sensor is 3.2 Megapixels
Click to expand...

The number of pixels in a sensor doesn't determine the sensor's size.

The HC5's sensor is 1/3"; the HC7's sensor is 1/2.9".

You could say that the HC7 has 52% more pixels on its 3.33% smaller sensor, compared to the HC5. However, it's inaccurate to say that the HC7's sensor is "larger."

If anything, having more pixels on a similar size sensor can be a disadvantage, as LethalWolfe has pointed out; there's less light per pixel.

The megapixel spec is useful if you're using the camcorder for still photography. For video there are diminishing returns.

As for the whole discussion about audio inputs, that's important if you're shooting documentary style, run and gun. However, when you're shooting in a studio type environment, which you would with an On Air setup, one may as well have the audio recorded separately from the video. Especially if you're planning to output 5.1 audio, use an audio engineer / sound recordist. You'll get much better results.
 
1/2.9" .345" Is BIGGER Than 1/3" .333" But Not By Much

Rod Rod said:
The number of pixels in a sensor doesn't determine the sensor's size.

The HC5's sensor is 1/3"; the HC7's sensor is 1/2.9".

You could say that the HC7 has 52% more pixels on its 3.33% smaller sensor, compared to the HC5. However, it's inaccurate to say that the HC7's sensor is "larger."

If anything, having more pixels on a similar size sensor can be a disadvantage, as LethalWolfe has pointed out; there's less light per pixel.

The megapixel spec is useful if you're using the camcorder for still photography. For video there are diminishing returns.

As for the whole discussion about audio inputs, that's important if you're shooting documentary style, run and gun. However, when you're shooting in a studio type environment, which you would with an On Air setup, one may as well have the audio recorded separately from the video. Especially if you're planning to output 5.1 audio, use an audio engineer / sound recordist. You'll get much better results.
Click to expand...
1/2.9" .345" is BIGGER than 1/3" .333" but not by much. I missed the less light discussion. I'd rather have the option of field shoots with audio in availabe in the same camera. I think that given enough light, the denser sensors should do better at delivering more detail don't you?
 
Multimedia said:
1/2.9" .345" is BIGGER than 1/3" .333" but not by much. I missed the less light discussion. I'd rather have the option of field shoots with audio in availabe in the same camera. I think that given enough light, the denser sensors should do better at delivering more detail don't you?
Click to expand...

Oops, my bad regarding the math. :)

Yes, light is everything (to answer the question).

I'm shooting a wedding ceremony on a cruise ship (to the Bahamas, yay) and I'm thinking of using a Z1U or FX7 as a primary camera and an HC3 as a secondary. I'll need real audio inputs to receive the wireless mic(s). However, since I don't want to attract too much attention from the crew, I might go with two little Sonys.

I have an HC3 and an HD10 (but I'm not about to fool around with mixing 720p30 and 1080i60).
 
Multimedia said:
1/2.9" .345" is BIGGER than 1/3" .333" but not by much. I missed the less light discussion. I'd rather have the option of field shoots with audio in availabe in the same camera. I think that given enough light, the denser sensors should do better at delivering more detail don't you?
Click to expand...

There's a point of diminishing returns w/regards to pixel density. Too many pixels and you'll actually degrade the image by introducing noise. There is a balancing act between the number of pixels and the amount of image detail the lens can resolve. You also have to take into consideration the compression used and if the codec can even take advantage of the extra pixels.

Pixel count is to imaging devices what the "mhz myth" is to computers. It's an easily quantifiable aspect of the product, which is great for marketing, but it doesn't tell you a lot by itself.

Shoots out done between the HVX200, XH-L1, V1U, and HD100 showed that all the cameras produced comparable images. Some may have been a bit sharper than others, some may have been a bit better in low light, and some might have produced a bit more accurate colors, but in the end no camera came out decidedly on top. The group doing the shoot out basically concluded that you should pick a camera based on whatever features match you shooting needs because the cameras produced such comparable images.


Lethal
 
JVC JY-HD10 Is A 720P "HD" Camera Not HDV Compatible

Rod Rod said:
Oops, my bad regarding the math. :)

Yes, light is everything (to answer the question).

I'm shooting a wedding ceremony on a cruise ship (to the Bahamas, yay) and I'm thinking of using a Z1U or FX7 as a primary camera and an HC3 as a secondary. I'll need real audio inputs to receive the wireless mic(s). However, since I don't want to attract too much attention from the crew, I might go with two little Sonys.

I have an HC3 and an HD10 (but I'm not about to fool around with mixing 720p30 and 1080i60).
Click to expand...
That's a JVC JY-HD10 720p HD Camcorder folks - uses the 720P flavor of the overall HDV specification - Thanks Rod Rod. My bad.

I don't know how you mix 720P with 1080i footage do you?
 
So Pixel Volume Does Not Necessarily Yield Better Quality

LethalWolfe said:
There's a point of diminishing returns w/regards to pixel density. Too many pixels and you'll actually degrade the image by introducing noise. There is a balancing act between the number of pixels and the amount of image detail the lens can resolve. You also have to take into consideration the compression used and if the codec can even take advantage of the extra pixels.

Pixel count is to imaging devices what the "mhz myth" is to computers. It's an easily quantifiable aspect of the product, which is great for marketing, but it doesn't tell you a lot by itself.

Shoots out done between the HVX200, XH-L1, V1U, and HD100 showed that all the cameras produced comparable images. Some may have been a bit sharper than others, some may have been a bit better in low light, and some might have produced a bit more accurate colors, but in the end no camera came out decidedly on top. The group doing the shoot out basically concluded that you should pick a camera based on whatever features match you shooting needs because the cameras produced such comparable images.
Click to expand...
So this is why the new Canon HV20, coming in April, might/could/may yield a better picture than the HC7 even though its sensor has a much smaller pixel count. They're talking only 3.1 Megapixel 4x3 or 2 Megapixel 16x9 Stills plus the sensor is physcially larger 1/2.7" or .370" and also claims to be a true 1920x1080 sensor. HV20 pixel count is 2,960k or 2,070k effective. They list 3 lux as minimum at 1/30 shutter. Their lens is 43mm vs 37mm in the HC7.

This would also account for why some people think the image from the Teeny Tiny Seriously Pocket Size Canon HV10 is better than from much larger cameras. It's out there now for only $900 or less albeit without a HDMI output. But it does have analog component out. Trade offs. Here's the link to the Canon HV10 Instruction Manual download page folks. We're full disclosure here at HDR-HC7. :p

ALERT: Just found the Canon HV20 Instruction Manual PDF is now up on the Canon site since last Monday in fact.
From The Canon HV20 Manual said:
Video shot with the HDV (PF24) standard will be recorded on the tape as 60i.
Click to expand...
So looks like their "24P" is also "FAKE". Bummer.
From The Canon HV20 Manual said:
You can play back with this camcorder tapes recorded in HDV standard with a Canon XL H1, XH G1 or XH A1
(including 24F or 30F mode).
Click to expand...
Good deck cam for playback from more expensive camera footage. Excellent.

Interesting. Still have to stick with HC7 as my prefered model because of the LANC port. I do a lot of tripod shooting with a VariZoom remote zoom controller.

I'm starting to think about how we maight be able to combine analog component HD IN from non HDMI HDV cameras with HDMI IN into hybrid PCIe cards like Blackmagic Design's DeckLink HD Studio. If that'll work with On-Air, we could get 4 cameras with only two DeckLink HD Studio cards and still have room to drive 4 screens from a fully occupied Mac Pro or last gen G5 PM. Now that would be really exciting.
 
Multimedia said:
That's a JVC JY-HD10 720p HD Camcorder folks - not an HDV camera. HDV is only 1080i.
Click to expand...
Please take a look at this, and be informed: http://www.hdv-info.org/

Click the "HDV Format Main Specification" link on the left frame. Thank you. (misinformation dismissed!) :)
Multimedia said:
I don't know how you mix 720P with 1080i footage do you?
Click to expand...

It'd be tedious if one were trying to make them both look good. One could up-res the 720p stuff to 1080p, and deinterlace the 1080i material to 1080p. Another option is to deinterlace the 1080i footage to 720p. It's just a lot of CPU time.
 
Multimedia said:
So this is why the new Canon HV20 may yield a better picture than the HC7 even though its sensor has a much smaller pixel count.
Click to expand...

In part, yes. The electronic wizardry that the camera companies can pull off with the on-board processing also weighs in. Canon has DigicDV (or something like that based off the image processing from it's still cameras) and Sony has ClearVid on it's CMOS cameras. Panasonic's HVX200 only has 960x540 CCDs, but because of how Panny uses them and the on board image processing they can create images on par w/a cameras that have much higher pixel counts.

It's almost like the trend we've seen in computer CPUs the past couple of years. The "brute force" approach to technology has hit a wall (power draw, heat generation, etc.,) so companies are making electronics that work smarter, not harder.

Overall it really is a pretty amazing time to be involved in the entertainment industry. Acquisition, editing, and distribution have all changed so much in the past 10 years and are going to change so much more again in the next 10.


Lethal
 
MultiMedia, after reading all your posts, even I have placed an order at provantage for HDR-HC7. Keeping my fingers crossed. The customer service guys said they are expecting the stock by Feb. 26, so it would be a safe bet to expect the stock not before early March.
I got kinda "off-the-hook" question. I dont have a macbook, but I have a HP Laptop with following quick specs.

Model: dv9035nr
Proc: Intel T5500 Dual core
RAM : 2Gig
VCard: Nvidia 7600 GO

Do you think this is powerful enough for processing HD output that will be sent by HC&, and downconvert it to whatever format I want? (like PAL 1024x576)?

Consider me as an absolute layman in terms of graphics and video editing, and answer my query.

Thanks in advance! :)
 
Welcome Aboard Tranceporter

Tranceporter said:
MultiMedia, after reading all your posts, even I have placed an order at provantage for HDR-HC7. Keeping my fingers crossed. The customer service guys said they are expecting the stock by Feb. 26, so it would be a safe bet to expect the stock not before early March.
I got kinda "off-the-hook" question. I dont have a macbook, but I have a HP Laptop with following quick specs.

Model: dv9035nr
Proc: Intel T5500 Dual core
RAM : 2Gig
VCard: Nvidia 7600 GO

Do you think this is powerful enough for processing HD output that will be sent by HC&, and downconvert it to whatever format I want? (like PAL 1024x576)?

Consider me as an absolute layman in terms of graphics and video editing, and answer my query.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the ProVantage waiting game. And congrats on your decision to join us. I think any dual core Intel will do fine. Sony Vegas Video Studio + DVD Platinum $120 on the Sony Site is supposed to be the best PC HDV capture edit author DVDs software I've read.

The HV7 comes with some Windows software too.
 
thanks for thequick reply! Yes, I have Sony Vegas 7.0a and DVD Architect 4.0.
So, it seems I am all set to play around with video editing stuff. Now its in Sony's hands to release the HC7 in market quickly.
I also called up the Sony guys for Warranty thingy, and they said that accidental damage does not cover physical damage. What they meant, was that the service center will determine whether it was accidental damage, or physical damage (like i broke something with brute force etc), and then they will pay us a flat rate, if found accidental, otherwise we will have to pay for the part and labor. This pretty much sounds kinda corny to me, another ploy to just extract money from consumers. So I am still wondering if I should purchase any extended warranty.
Another thing is that I am from India, so the warranty I purchase here will be useless, since it will be valid only for Sony USA and not for Sony Worldwide.
I have a question tho. HDV doesnt have anything like PAL/NTSC. Still they brand the models differently, like HC7 is NTSC only and HC7E is PAL only.
Does this mean that the shutter speeds are different? (60i vs 50i?). Also are the frame rates different? (30 vs 25). What this means, is that when I downconvert, if I convert to PAL from NTSC only HDV camcorder, I will experience a loss of quality as compared to downconversion to NTSC?
 
Multimedia said:
Interesting. Still have to stick with HC7 as my prefered model because of the LANC port. I do a lot of tripod shooting with a VariZoom remote zoom controller.
Click to expand...
May I explore this for a moment? Thanks.

Besides being an amateur I'm also new to the LANC port.
What exactly can this control on the HC7?

I'm guessing it's only zoom and record and if so then
will the Sony RM-VD1 be enough to do the job?
Don't want to spend a lot since I won't use it a lot.
Other suggestions for a sub $100 remote controller?

Thanks for a great forum all.
Very helpful.
 
Yes RM-VD1 Remote Commander Will Do • Sony Also Sells Light Tripods With Remotes

craigmohrman said:
May I explore this for a moment? Thanks.

Besides being an amateur I'm also new to the LANC port.
What exactly can this control on the HC7?
Click to expand...
Zoom Direction, Zoom Speed, Manual Focus, Start and Stop Recording. With a VariZoom brand Lens Controller you can simultaneously change the speed of the zoom from extremely slow to extremely fast while you are in a zoom too. I use their VZ Pro-L model that sells for $339 direct. I can change zoom speed with my index finger while I am zooming with my thumb real easily.

They also sell a prosumer VZ Stealth model for only $199 - their most affordable model. If you find them at a trade show like DV Expo or VideoMaker Expo you can even get them for less.
craigmohrman said:
I'm guessing it's only zoom and record and if so then will the Sony RM-VD1 be enough to do the job?
Don't want to spend a lot since I won't use it a lot.
Other suggestions for a sub $100 remote controller?

Thanks for a great forum all.
Very helpful.
Click to expand...
Yes that should work fine. That's a good choice to use with a monopod. Sony also sells a couple of light weight tripods with remote controls as well. Glad you like the thread. Should get better once we start getting our cameras. :)
 
Sony Accidental Damage Warranty Includes If You Break Something By Dropping It

Tranceporter said:
I also called up the Sony guys for Warranty thingy, and they said that accidental damage does not cover physical damage. What they meant, was that the service center will determine whether it was accidental damage, or physical damage (like i broke something with brute force etc), and then they will pay us a flat rate, if found accidental, otherwise we will have to pay for the part and labor.
Click to expand...
That's not what my sales person told me. He said it includes if you drop it and break something external on it. $180 for 4 years.

Woot! We just reached 40 voters. Only 17 of us in the HDV camp. :(
 
Multimedia, I think you should verify it again with the Warranty people.
I asked the lady clearly, if I drop the camcorder, and something breaks, will the warranty replace/repair the part? She said "IT IS IN THE HANDS OF SERVICE CENTER to whom the camcorder is sent for repair". If they determine that it was not accidental damage (even though, lets say, your LCD was broken), you WILL HAVE to pay for that part they are replacing. This sounds very inconvenient to me. :)
 
4 Year Accidental Damage Warranty Is Premium Priced @ $180

Tranceporter said:
Multimedia, I think you should verify it again with the Warranty people.
I asked the lady clearly, if I drop the camcorder, and something breaks, will the warranty replace/repair the part? She said "IT IS IN THE HANDS OF SERVICE CENTER to whom the camcorder is sent for repair". If they determine that it was not accidental damage (even though, lets say, your LCD was broken), you WILL HAVE to pay for that part they are replacing. This sounds very inconvenient to me. :)
Click to expand...
Well that is not how it was sold to me.

1. I plan on never dropping it. I am careful. Replacing a worn head is more likely to be why I may need it.
2. If I do drop it, I will lobby that I was told my "Accidental Damage" Warranty included outside parts breakage.
3. You understand there are two different warranties right? One does not include accidental damage to the external parts like the LCD display and the Lens. The premium warranty for $180 for 4 years specifically does include accidental drop damage to the outside parts.
4. You don't get a lot of drops. Perhaps one or two over the 4 year period. That's only fair.
 
Manual Vs. Auto-Focus

craigmohrman said:
Do you use the manual focus on the VariZoom or do you allow
the camcorder to autofocus?
Click to expand...
I usually leave the auto focus on unless I have a fixed subject like a speaker when I will use the auto focus to set focus then turn auto-focus off to manual so it doesn't drift. Not sure how easy this will be with the HC7's weird menu to features system. And we'll have to see how fast the auto focus is too. I noticed in Spot Focus mode (p. 46) you can touch the LCD viewfinder where you want the manual focus to target, similar to the temporary auto focus button on more expensive cameras, which is pretty amazing technology if it works.
 
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