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The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

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VirtualRain said:
New topic... CPU Cooling...

What does Apple use for CPU coolers on the Penryn chips now? Do they use stock Intel coolers? If not, is it custom? Are they noisy?

Has Apple ever offered water cooling?
Click to expand...
Current coolers aren't stock from Intel. Heat Pipes+Fin tower. I've no idea who actually makes it. Available here, but no pic. :(

Apple used water cooling on G5's, but they've had problems with leakage. Check the forum, as there's a couple of threads or so. ;)
 
VirtualRain said:
Not even top of the line graphics cards running in SLI can saturate a x16 2.0 bus.
Click to expand...

So, out of curiosity, I decided to run a test.

Moving a graphics card from a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot to a PCIe 1.1 x4 slot (on the same motherboard, same OS, etc,) resulted in the following drops in performance:

GeForce 9500 GT: approximately 5% drop. (3DMark06 score of 5144 on the x16/2.0, 4868 on x4/1.1)

GeForce GTX 280: approximately a 22% drop. (3DMark06 scores of 15951 and 13101, respectively.)

So a 22% drop, on what is no longer the top-of-the-line card. But... Going from x4/1.1 to x16/2.0 increases bandwith eightfold, so that might not be a super-valid comparison. If I get time later, I'll run the testing with a GTX 295, and compare x16/2.0, x16/1.1, x4/2.0, and x4/1.1. (The motherboard I'm using has an x16 slot and an x4 electrical/x16 physical slot; both of which you can turn 2.0 on or off. I was comparing 'best and worst' before.) This test would be a good one, since x4/2.0 is half the speed of x16/1.1, so I would halve bandwidth every time. (x16/1.1 is also the same bandwidth as x8/2.0, which some motherboards go to in SLI/CrossFire mode; and x4/2.0 is the same bandwidth as x8/1.1, which, again, some motherboards go in to in SLI/CrossFire mode.)
 
ehurtley said:
So, out of curiosity, I decided to run a test.

Moving a graphics card from a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot to a PCIe 1.1 x4 slot (on the same motherboard, same OS, etc,) resulted in the following drops in performance:

GeForce 9500 GT: approximately 5% drop. (3DMark06 score of 5144 on the x16/2.0, 4868 on x4/1.1)

GeForce GTX 280: approximately a 22% drop. (3DMark06 scores of 15951 and 13101, respectively.)

So a 22% drop, on what is no longer the top-of-the-line card. But... Going from x4/1.1 to x16/2.0 increases bandwith eightfold, so that might not be a super-valid comparison. If I get time later, I'll run the testing with a GTX 295, and compare x16/2.0, x16/1.1, x4/2.0, and x4/1.1. (The motherboard I'm using has an x16 slot and an x4 electrical/x16 physical slot; both of which you can turn 2.0 on or off. I was comparing 'best and worst' before.) This test would be a good one, since x4/2.0 is half the speed of x16/1.1, so I would halve bandwidth every time. (x16/1.1 is also the same bandwidth as x8/2.0, which some motherboards go to in SLI/CrossFire mode; and x4/2.0 is the same bandwidth as x8/1.1, which, again, some motherboards go in to in SLI/CrossFire mode.)
Click to expand...
You're willing to guinea pig err... test this? :cool:

I'll look forward to the results. :)
Real world testing by someone who's pay check may not be riding on the results is always welcome. :D
 
nanofrog said:
You're willing to guinea pig err... test this? :cool:

I'll look forward to the results. :)
Real world testing by someone who's pay check may not be riding on the results is always welcome. :D
Click to expand...

Heck, my paycheck *DOES* ride on the line. I get to do this kind of stuff as part of my job. :p It's called 'product evaluation'. Sadly, it may have to wait until next week. Right now I'm testing a pair of processors, and a pair of Blu-ray drives. All have to be tested in a variety of systems. The GTX 285 and 295 may not get evaluated until next week.
 
ehurtley said:
So, out of curiosity, I decided to run a test.

Moving a graphics card from a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot to a PCIe 1.1 x4 slot (on the same motherboard, same OS, etc,) resulted in the following drops in performance:

GeForce 9500 GT: approximately 5% drop. (3DMark06 score of 5144 on the x16/2.0, 4868 on x4/1.1)

GeForce GTX 280: approximately a 22% drop. (3DMark06 scores of 15951 and 13101, respectively.)

So a 22% drop, on what is no longer the top-of-the-line card. But... Going from x4/1.1 to x16/2.0 increases bandwith eightfold, so that might not be a super-valid comparison. If I get time later, I'll run the testing with a GTX 295, and compare x16/2.0, x16/1.1, x4/2.0, and x4/1.1. (The motherboard I'm using has an x16 slot and an x4 electrical/x16 physical slot; both of which you can turn 2.0 on or off. I was comparing 'best and worst' before.) This test would be a good one, since x4/2.0 is half the speed of x16/1.1, so I would halve bandwidth every time. (x16/1.1 is also the same bandwidth as x8/2.0, which some motherboards go to in SLI/CrossFire mode; and x4/2.0 is the same bandwidth as x8/1.1, which, again, some motherboards go in to in SLI/CrossFire mode.)
Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to read this fully, but it may save you some time...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915.html

crysis_1920x1200_high.png


The conclusion is that bus bandwidth is really only relevant if the textures can't fit within the graphic's card's on-board frame buffer memory (which makes a lot of sense).

It seems one of the key advantages of PCI-e 2.0 is the increase of power delivery through the socket from 75W to 300W.

I assume the only reason we are talking about this is for people that plan to run Windows games on their Mac Pro? How many people waiting on this machine intend to do this?
 
ehurtley said:
Heck, my paycheck *DOES* ride on the line. I get to do this kind of stuff as part of my job. :p It's called 'product evaluation'. Sadly, it may have to wait until next week. Right now I'm testing a pair of processors, and a pair of Blu-ray drives. All have to be tested in a variety of systems. The GTX 285 and 295 may not get evaluated until next week.
Click to expand...
:eek: NOOOOO!!!!!

Great. Now we'll get hicup, and it really be "Beyond a Disaster". ;) :D :p

OK, maybe you won't have to placate for advertising. :p

I'd bet it's a fun job. ;) Now you might get a slew of PM's from other members wondering how you landed such a job. :D
VirtualRain said:
I haven't had a chance to read this fully, but it may save you some time...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915.html

crysis_1920x1200_high.png


The conclusion is that bus bandwidth is really only relevant if the textures can't fit within the graphic's card's on-board frame buffer memory (which makes a lot of sense).

It seems one of the key advantages of PCI-e 2.0 is the increase of power delivery through the socket from 75W to 300W.

I assume the only reason we are talking about this is for people that plan to run Windows games on their Mac Pro? How many people waiting on this machine intend to do this?
Click to expand...
It would be nice to see how the newer products compare. At least to get an idea of how quickly the bandwidth might be saturated.
 
deze, those are great! and, in my opinion, likely.

by the way, is there any specific reason that the MP doesn't have a rack-mountable design? any chance that the new one will be?
 
nanofrog said:
:eek: NOOOOO!!!!!
OK, maybe you won't have to placate for advertising. :p

I'd bet it's a fun job. ;) Now you might get a slew of PM's from other members wondering how you landed such a job. :D
Click to expand...

Nope, no placating for anything. (Other than the whims of my boss.) At the job is at Intel, I don't exactly get to do anything with AMD processors; but lots of other stuff (mostly 'accessory' hardware) is fair game.

Tomorrow, I can throw in a 4870X2, though.
 
ehurtley said:
Nope, no placating for anything. (Other than the whims of my boss.) At the job is at Intel, I don't exactly get to do anything with AMD processors; but lots of other stuff (mostly 'accessory' hardware) is fair game.

Tomorrow, I can throw in a 4870X2, though.
Click to expand...
Placating the Boss = Extremely Smart ;) :D

4870X2 = you're making me jealous! :eek:
I'll send you a PM. I accept freebies. :D :p
 
Handles and black?

Tallest Skil said:
You win. :cool: This is my design plus Apple's... and it works WELL.

Epic. You'll be linked to in the first post tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the aesthetic ideas presented so far as speculation for a potential design update, but there are a couple of things I don't think make sense..

For one, as attractive as this type of recessed handle may be, they are entirely non ergonomic. Imagine the pressure exerted on wrists that try to lift this much weight in the twisted positions suggested by the inward-facing orientation of these handles. It is much more natural to be able to approach them in a supinated position from the outside of the case as opposed to the inside.

Also, I'm not yet convinced about the move to a black center panel unless it us for purely aesthetic reasons. Apple has for years trended towards minimalism in both design and material usage. There is no practical reason to move to black. Or at least, the most plausible thing I've seen asserted is that it may make locating I/O easier if you're just using your peripheral vision. Black has entered the line of products recently mostly to frame displays and provide contrasty negative space around the images presented there.
 
VirtualRain said:
I assume the only reason we are talking about this is for people that plan to run Windows games on their Mac Pro? How many people waiting on this machine intend to do this?
Click to expand...

I think alot of this stuff is really just because we are interested and enjoy reading about it and applying that knowledge to discuss what might be likely. Certainly for me anyway. In the end we get what Apple give us and deal with it.
 
I like the new mock-ups: shorter feet and handles to accommodate a longer body (if necessary).
As has been stated before - there must be ventilation for the front fan(s) and the ODD opening must be for a tray not slot load. There's no way pro's want to be limited by whatever slot ODD's are available (usually just for monibes, I think).
If the front is aluminum, it's not likely Apple will paint it - so expect bare silver. They won't use those new tiny pin holes seen for the speakers on the unibodies, they need to be large enough for optimal air flow. The only reason Apple used black borders around monitors is for optimal viewing of graphics, not merely a design cue.
Who here thinks the Mighty Mouse will be redesigned? I'd love to see a mock of a slightly larger mouse, aluminum, brushed aluminum scroll ball. ;)
 
the mighty mouse sucks major balls... that thing needs a major facelift...

that scroll ball is useless....
 
dabirdwell said:
For one, as attractive as this type of recessed handle may be, they are entirely non ergonomic. Imagine the pressure exerted on wrists that try to lift this much weight in the twisted positions suggested by the inward-facing orientation of these handles. It is much more natural to be able to approach them in a supinated position from the outside of the case as opposed to the inside.
Click to expand...

I didn't notice that at first.

The "You win" up there is now downgraded to "That's awesome." ;)
 
Tallest Skil said:
I didn't notice that at first.

The "You win" up there is now downgraded to "That's awesome." ;)
Click to expand...

Laughs...

dabirdwell said:
as attractive as this type of recessed handle may be, they are entirely non ergonomic. Imagine the pressure exerted on wrists that try to lift this much weight in the twisted positions suggested by the inward-facing orientation of these handles. It is much more natural to be able to approach them in a supinated position from the outside of the case as opposed to the inside.
Click to expand...

Yes i know its not technically correct and lifting it would make you look like a gorilla in stance, but hey... Will work wonders for your triceps! ;)
 
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