1 Month In - Thinking of going MBP

[bwb]

Just know the gaming performance is going to be very small compared to even a base rMBP. Thats what would swing me every time. I want to play more than flash games, but I dont need to play Crysis on ultra settings. The 13" size seems fine to me. Its the lightest laptop I have every had. It has the weight to make it not feel cheap(not saying the rmb or air is cheap), but its not heavy. Same reason a heavier band steel watch feels better to me, over like a titanium watch that may be of higher quality and or cost.

What genres do you like to play, by the way?

 

[ZXMustang]

The rmb is probably not going to be good for gaming. I encourage gamers to buy the 13" or the 15". This isn't for them.

If you like heavy stuff, this probably isn't for you. It is unbelievably light, yet sturdy.

There is a lot of space between not being optimized for gaming and being an iPad. In between, there are plenty of professionals doing work that they cannot do on the iPad, but don't need an rmbp to complete. The mba is fine, for what it is, but the screen is a non-starter for me (I never liked it and think the retina display is long overdue.

Well I hope apple dumps the air, and lowers the price of the rMB. That would make sense to me. If that rMB was $899 and $1099 then it would be a great value for what it is. Then keeping the rMBP prices the same would be smart to show a little gap between those models.

 

[ZXMustang]

What genres do you like to play, by the way?

Shooters, driving games and sim games. I have found that the sim games run awesome on the pro. I just downloaded the batman arkham city for the mac on my pro and it runs awesome on medium settings. But more than medium, and it studders. So its not a monster gaming rig either, but at least I can use it when Im not at home for entertainment.

 

[bwb]

Shooters, driving games and sim games. I have found that the sim games run awesome on the pro. I just downloaded the batman arkham city for the mac on my pro and it runs awesome on medium settings. But more than medium, and it studders. So its not a monster gaming rig either, but at least I can use it when Im not at home for entertainment.

Yea, agreed it's better than nothing if you want to play some games on the go. Business trips are usually too busy for me to find time to play anything, and family trips I end up feeling a bit guilty if I spend all the time on my laptop so gaming while traveling is pretty much off the radar.

I do like not being limited to my desk when gaming, say instead playing in the dining room since there are a lot more windows there. I plan to use Steam streaming to my laptop (rMB or otherwise) for that case. I tested streaming the other day on a 2009 MBP that I was fixing up for a family member, and it seemed decent. I previously tried it on a circa-2010 Lenovo that University provides and the latency was noticable. Maybe the wifi networking stack in the Lenovo has more latency or something since I tried it within days of each other. (I was surprised there was any difference between the MBP and the Lenovo)

 

[bwb]

There is a lot of space between not being optimized for gaming and being an iPad. In between, there are plenty of professionals doing work that they cannot do on the iPad, but don't need an rmbp to complete. The mba is fine, for what it is, but the screen is a non-starter for me (I never liked it and think the retina display is long overdue.

Agreed, in my case the rMB will be used for:

1) Something lightweight with more or less universal access if I need to RDP/VNC into a remote machine and still have reasonable screen resolution. Or if I need to spin up a VM occasionally for viewing something in the Windows version of Word/Powerpoint, using Visio, using specialized graphing, etc if my work laptop isn't with me.

2) Access to the OS X side of the Apple ecosystem, e.g. tagging photos, doing light photo editing, and having a way to back up the iCloud Photo Library. Desktop versions of DayOne, Paprika, Evernote (PC ver of Evernote doesn't handle PDFs as nicely), etc. A way to screen share to my mom's MBA if she needs some technical help. More ways to facetime with my sister.

Basically something that I could justify always having on me that would be a bit of a swiss army knife if I need to access something, and also to have more coverage to the Apple ecosystem that I presently don't have.

The other options would be:

- Cheap Windows laptop, whether XPS 13 or something even cheaper, but then I would lose #2 above.

- MBA but then I would lose #1 since I couldn't crank up the effective resolution for RDP/VNC sessions as needed.

- rMBP but then I'd likely carry my work laptop since it would be close in weight, and just leave the rMBP docked at home negating the reason for buying a laptop in the first place (vs. iMac/Mac Mini).

Longer term some of #2 will probably get offloaded to an iMac or something. But given the above, I've been much more between a 15" rMBP (probably 512GB SSD, 16GB ram) or a 12" rMB. If I went the 15" then I'd forego an iMac entirely, get a thunderbolt display once they update it, and for travel I'd never take both personal+work laptops (rMBP would just subsume work tasks during personal travel through heavy VM use). However, at that point I'm close in price to the rMB + iMac combination and I'd lose out on ultrabook portability entirely.

I'm still cautiously receptive to the 15" rMBP option, but if I went that route I'd like some of the newer technologies included (Broadwell, a USB-C port since more and more devices will use that, maybe a longer-throw butterfly keyboard?). However, since I'll need something when I'm moving in about 1.5 months, waiting for a Skylake release isn't possible unfortunately.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
The thread is back open - stop with the bickering, insults and taunting.

 

[jimboutilier]

Lol you want to pull semantics with the difference in storage for the same price, but you failed to acknowledge the difference between processors, memory speed, battery life, graphics, screen size and so on... So yes for the same money you get 128gb more space. Everything else is quite a bit less. And this weight thing is really comical. Its what a pound and a half less?? Seriously you are some wimpy gents if you cant handle lugging all that huge 1.5lbs extra weight around.

As someone who travels by air on business up to four times a month and also does ultralight camping and backpacking on weekend (often via a small plane), I know the entire "system" weight and volume of what one carries quickly adds up. Ounces turn into pounds and cubic inches turn into cubic feet at an alarming rate. Overall I probably spend 3x a much to get to an overall load 2/3 the size and half the weight of similar normal items. Folks that travel a lot (or backpack a lot) tend to put a lot of value on mobility (size and weight) of products.

I previously had a MBA. On paper a rMB only seems very slightly smaller and lighter. But I save 4 ounces on the machine itself. More than an ounce on the power adapter and cable, another oz on adapters/charges I no longer have to carry, almost two ounces on a case. That's a half a pound on one of the MANY systems I carry. Compared to a 13" rMBP that's probably well over two pounds difference. And it all adds up.

For a weeks business trip I can take a single bag thats well within all foreign and domestic air regulations (and often even fits on commuter aircraft or in a pinch under a seat of a regular aircraft). And it only weighs just over 20 pounds (and I carry a lot of stuff for a wide variety of conditions). I see people struggling through airports and on planes every week with two bags, that are likely more than a third larger and more than double the weight, often forced to check one or more bags, struggling to find bin space, sweating dragging them through the airport or stuffing them into bins. So I know every little bit helps - I've been doing this for decades.

So don't scoff at a 1.5 pound savings (thats likely more like 2-2.5 pounds as a overall system weight). While even the quoted product weight difference is attractive for many just from a user experience point of view (not that someone can carry a 2 pound notebook but somehow can't lift a 3.5 pound one), but because its not the only thing they carry, or the distance and frequency they carry it, everything adds up, and every little bit helps. It doesn't matter if you are a frequent flier with a carryon or a student with a backpack full of books - less is more for many of us.

 

[bwb]

For a weeks business trip I can take a single bag thats well within all foreign and domestic air regulations (and often even fits on commuter aircraft or in a pinch under a seat of a regular aircraft). And it only weighs just over 20 pounds (and I carry a lot of stuff for a wide variety of conditions). I see people struggling through airports and on planes every week with two bags, that are likely more than a third larger and more than double the weight, often forced to check one or more bags, struggling to find bin space, sweating dragging them through the airport or stuffing them into bins. So I know every little bit helps - I've been doing this for decades.

OT, but what are your favorite bags at the moment?

I current do a Patagonia MLC for personal travel or an EC 20" wide-body roller + a Rickshaw Commuter for business travel. I keep looking for a good briefcase/daybag that will nest with a soft-sided carry-on, but haven't found a combination I like yet. (I know Tom Bihn is well respected, but wish I could see them in person a bit before buying)

 

[boltjames]

Hard to argue with the OP and not get maddened beyond a point. So I'm just taking a walk in here now.... no more arguing .... ;-)

I quite enjoy it though as all my responses come courtesy of my RMB with its silky-smooth keyboard, lag free design, and super speedy processor. Any excuse to use our RMB's is a good thing.

BJ

 

[zhenya]

^ I would suggest Tom Bihn. I travel up to about 100 days a year, and have gone through a lot of luggage over the years. My Synapse 19 took me a little while to figure out what was so special about it, but it is now bar none the best backpack, best bag I have ever owned. They have a reasonable return policy if you don't like the bag, and their stuff loses very little value if used lightly, so it's not a big risk.

 

[jimboutilier]

OT, but what are your favorite bags at the moment?

I current do a Patagonia MLC for personal travel or an EC 20" wide-body roller + a Rickshaw Commuter for business travel. I keep looking for a good briefcase/daybag that will nest with a soft-sided carry-on, but haven't found a combination I like yet. (I know Tom Bihn is well respected, but wish I could see them in person a bit before buying)

I use an ultralight Victorinox 20" spinner for business travel (with a 12" fitted sleeve with pouch inside containing all my computer stuff). For personal travel I use one of several ultralight backpacks from the likes of Zpacks, Osprey, or Outdoor Research depending on the duration of the trip. You might look at InCase bags for your briefcase - they have some small lightweight products with great features and designs - was just big enough for MBA and day items for meetings. But they aren't fancy - just basic nylon. Still looking for an even smaller replacement for the rMB and day stuff as my current one is a little roomy for the rMB.

My ultralight backpacking hobby has helped me lighten my business travel a lot over the years. It not the savings on an individual item, its the savings across all the items you take and what you take them in.

 

[newellj]

While I would normally pre-order or be ready to pounce as soon as orders opened up on a new Apple product that excited me, all the bleeding edge tech had me worried on this one. I wanted to see at least a few good reviews and preferably put my hands on one before ordering. But after doing those things I was reassured enough to place an order.

When I got my 1.3/512 rMB it was a bit painful to set up because of the 10.10.2 WiFi bug and USB-C but once I got my Time Machine recovery done under 10.10.3 it was smooth sailing.

I expected it to be great at routine tasks like Office apps, surfing, video playback, music, drawing, design and and other highly interactive apps that feature the user as the bottleneck. And it was!

What I did not really expect, was how good it turned out to be at more intensive tasks like photo processing, database work, development etc. I mean it's no speed demon there, but it's impreesive for 5wTDP. It was faster than my ultimate 2013/14 MBA at routine tasks and only about 15% slower at my common sustained tasks (better if I'm docked and cooling it)

I do a lot of data analysis, loading many CSV files with around 10M record's each. And do queries against multiple 100M row tables. And the rMB is surprisingly good at it. It's slower than my MBA but still quite usable. That really impresses me. What took 3 or 4 minutes on my MBA only takes 4-5 on my rMB

I did my research and what seemed suitable for my use more than met my expectations. I did a lot of testing in the first week pushing it's envelope to make sure and I am. While there are lots of things it's NOT good at, (anything taxing CPU and GPU simultaneously or keeps both CPU cores taxed for more than a minute or so it pretty much sucks at) it's great at the things I do daily, and good at the rest of the things I need to do on an ultrabook.

If you are coming to a rMB from a quad core rMBP you taxed in any way you may very well be diassapointed. Similar for a recent dual core rMBP but to less of a degree. If you are coming from a recent but not current MBA you did not tax heavily I'd suggest your chances of being happy are good. But there are exceptions.

The rMB isn't perfect, isn't good for really taxing sustained work, but it can really be a great machine for many people's routine use and is worth looking at if it apeals to you.

There, a nice positive but hopefully realistic post. I feel much better now.

Big plus one on that. I flogged one for two weeks and found it very capable even with CPU-intensive tasks. I returned it because the keyboard drove me nuts, not because it had any power or usability problems.

 

[shenan1982]

So I thought I'd entertain you all with a follow up...

To recap, I have an iMac 5k as my primary\desktop computer. I travel about 2 weeks out of the month, mostly international. So having a lightweight computer is important to me. The ports aren't at all an issue, since I generally just use the charge port and 1 USB port, not extra HDMI or Thunderbolt, etc.

For the past 3 years, I've had a Macbook Air. I had the 2012, then the 2013, then the 2014, always the 11", and always the "ultimate" spec'd version. I was generally happy with it, especially the battery life and portability. It was a great road-warrior computer. It had the thin\light attributes, but it also had a fully capable processor in the i5\i7 to handle even the moderately demanding tasks I'd throw at it. The one disappointment revision after revision was the screen. It wasn't just non-retina, it was an awful display by any standard. It was a substandard screen for a Mac IMO.

So when the rMB was announced, I was giddy, it was perfect seemingly in every way. Sure there was the uncertainty of the keyboard, the nuance of the track pad, and the lack of ports, but my primary driver has always been a computer that's packed into as small a box as possible, with as much bang for the buck as I can get. I was able to snag a 1.2ghz\512GB model from Best Buy the Sunday after the Friday April 10 launch. I was astonished how thin and light it was. Immediately upon getting it setup (both as from scratch and from a backup), I began to notice the underpowered CPU. Tasks that my previous 3 years of Macbook Airs chewed through struggled on my rMB. Things like web pages lagged when scrolling, apps took 2x as long to open vs a MBA, and general sluggishness on other aspects of use were VERY glaringly obvious. Flash in Safari or Chrome was basically unusable for all intensive purposes.

So I thought I'd tough it out for a month and give it a chance. Fortunately, most of the UI lag was remedied in OS, but the issues of the actual performance of the computer wasn't. So that sent me on a quest for options. Go back to a sub-par screen on a Macbook Air... not really a good alternative after tasting the sweet nectar of a macbook with a retina screen... How about going to a rMBP 13"? Not ideal, it's a bit bigger, but can I tolerate how big it is? The performance is a non-issue on it because it's a powerhouse. So I figured I'd give it a shot and try a rMBP.

Long story short, the rMBP is an amazing computer, blazingly fast in every way.... but after 12 hours carrying it around the house, trying it in my travel bag, etc, it's just too bulky, too heavy, and too big for my needs after having the thin and lights for so long. I returned it just now.

So now I'm back with my Retina Macbook. I'm not in love with it, nor do I hate it. It's a 6 out of 10 for my needs, so I'm just accepting it for now. You better believe the first option I have for something thin and light with better performance I'll jump on. I can only hope the 10.10 and 10.11 betas continue to make incremental performance improvements, but until then I will just suck it up and live with it.

I wish there was an option that met my needs to at least an 8 out of 10, but there just isn't at this point.

 

[boltjames]

So I thought I'd entertain you all with a follow up...

To recap, I have an iMac 5k as my primary\desktop computer. I travel about 2 weeks out of the month, mostly international. So having a lightweight computer is important to me. The ports aren't at all an issue, since I generally just use the charge port and 1 USB port, not extra HDMI or Thunderbolt, etc.

For the past 3 years, I've had a Macbook Air. I had the 2012, then the 2013, then the 2014, always the 11", and always the "ultimate" spec'd version. I was generally happy with it, especially the battery life and portability. It was a great road-warrior computer. It had the thin\light attributes, but it also had a fully capable processor in the i5\i7 to handle even the moderately demanding tasks I'd throw at it. The one disappointment revision after revision was the screen. It wasn't just non-retina, it was an awful display by any standard. It was a substandard screen for a Mac IMO.

So when the rMB was announced, I was giddy, it was perfect seemingly in every way. Sure there was the uncertainty of the keyboard, the nuance of the track pad, and the lack of ports, but my primary driver has always been a computer that's packed into as small a box as possible, with as much bang for the buck as I can get. I was able to snag a 1.2ghz\512GB model from Best Buy the Sunday after the Friday April 10 launch. I was astonished how thin and light it was. Immediately upon getting it setup (both as from scratch and from a backup), I began to notice the underpowered CPU. Tasks that my previous 3 years of Macbook Airs chewed through struggled on my rMB. Things like web pages lagged when scrolling, apps took 2x as long to open vs a MBA, and general sluggishness on other aspects of use were VERY glaringly obvious. Flash in Safari or Chrome was basically unusable for all intensive purposes.

So I thought I'd tough it out for a month and give it a chance. Fortunately, most of the UI lag was remedied in OS, but the issues of the actual performance of the computer wasn't. So that sent me on a quest for options. Go back to a sub-par screen on a Macbook Air... not really a good alternative after tasting the sweet nectar of a macbook with a retina screen... How about going to a rMBP 13"? Not ideal, it's a bit bigger, but can I tolerate how big it is? The performance is a non-issue on it because it's a powerhouse. So I figured I'd give it a shot and try a rMBP.

Long story short, the rMBP is an amazing computer, blazingly fast in every way.... but after 12 hours carrying it around the house, trying it in my travel bag, etc, it's just too bulky, too heavy, and too big for my needs after having the thin and lights for so long. I returned it just now.

So now I'm back with my Retina Macbook. I'm not in love with it, nor do I hate it. It's a 6 out of 10 for my needs, so I'm just accepting it for now. You better believe the first option I have for something thin and light with better performance I'll jump on. I can only hope the 10.10 and 10.11 betas continue to make incremental performance improvements, but until then I will just suck it up and live with it.

I wish there was an option that met my needs to at least an 8 out of 10, but there just isn't at this point.

Can someone summarize into a single sentence so I don't have to read the whole thing?

And it better not be "I bought the wrong computer but I'm going to keep it anyway" or I'm going to get really upset.

BJ

 

[JoePa2624]

You think there's any chance the 1.3 might work better for you? I don't really like benchmarks but you seem to trust them and the 1.3 tests very similarly to the Airs you're referencing.

Trying to think out of the box.

 

[boltjames]

You've learned to compromise on performance and value for the sake of form factor and status symbolism and I'm proud of you. It's the reason the RMB exists. Just took you too long to figure it out.

BJ

 

[jimboutilier]

You think there's any chance the 1.3 might work better for you? I don't really like benchmarks but you seem to trust them and the 1.3 tests very similarly to the Airs you're referencing.

Trying to think out of the box.

Yeah, the 1.3 is about 10% faster CPU wise than the 1.2 and has some efficiency benefits with power and heat as well.

It's still about 15% slower sustained CPU wise than your 2014 ultimate MBA but that's better than the 25% slower you my be experiencing now. That may just add enough that all the performance issues you precieve fall within your acceptable range.

One of the reasons I allways ordered ultimate Airs because that started out pretty slow and with the rMB low power processor I did the same. As a result I'm pretty happy coming from a 2013/14 MBA ultimate.

I assume he's repaired his disk permissons from the recovery partition and rest his pram? He might also try a utility like Xslimmer to shrink app sizes so they load faster or a utility like Clean My Mac 3 to do that and other optimizations that can help optimize performance.

He can also make tradeoffs like reducing or turning off expensive eye candy like transparency, app launch/ minimize effects etc. If it takes away real everyday performance perception issues in favor of the occasional negative thought about not taking full advantage of some visual features of the OS it's worth it. Remember OSX was writen for a wide variety of hardware and taking full advantage of eye candy on all machines isn't always the best choice.

I hope he finds a good solution to his issues.

 

[shenan1982]

You've learned to compromise on performance and value for the sake of form factor and status symbolism and I'm proud of you. It's the reason the RMB exists. Just took you too long to figure it out.

BJ

But for the first time ever, I'm not "elated" with MY Apple product. I've been an Apple fan since 2001... and I've always found one product in each line I own which absolutely makes me happy. There have been plenty of trials and mis-steps in the products I pick, and that's fine, but I've always found a product offered in each category where I've been genuinely happy with my purchase. In this case, I can't say that. I feel like I've settled for the lesser of the compromises, and I feel like I have a computer that isn't amazing or exciting to carry and use. It's a feeling that's new to me when it comes to Apple products. :-(

 

[shenan1982]

You think there's any chance the 1.3 might work better for you? I don't really like benchmarks but you seem to trust them and the 1.3 tests very similarly to the Airs you're referencing.

Trying to think out of the box.

The difference in the benchmarks (that I've seen) between the 1.2 and 1.3 are negligible. My friend ordered the 1.3 and finally got it last week. He's complaining of the same issues with slowness as me (be thankful he's not a MacRumors member LOL).

 

[shenan1982]

Can someone summarize into a single sentence so I don't have to read the whole thing?

And it better not be "I bought the wrong computer but I'm going to keep it anyway" or I'm going to get really upset.

BJ

The summary is that for the first time in my history of 15 years of Apple products, there's no product being sold in the laptop line that excites me to own. This is a new and disappointing feeling for me.

 

[PDFierro]

The summary is that for the first time in my history of 15 years of Apple products, there's no product being sold in the laptop line that excites me to own. This is a new and disappointing feeling for me.

Suit yourself. I was happy with the 13" rMBP and I'm even more happy with the rMB now. The last time I wasn't satisfied with a Mac was when I had the Air, and that was because of no Retina.

 

[shenan1982]

Suit yourself. I was happy with the 13" rMBP and I'm even more happy with the rMB now. The last time I wasn't satisfied with a Mac was when I had the Air, and that was because of no Retina.

Yeah. But that dissatisfaction evolved with time. You initially were satisfied with it because when the Air line came out, Retina wasn't really a thing. But when we saw the other kids getting the cool new toys with retina, looking at the Air was looking into the past, not the future. That I can understand and agree with.

 

[bwb]

The summary is that for the first time in my history of 15 years of Apple products, there's no product being sold in the laptop line that excites me to own. This is a new and disappointing feeling for me.

Process technology improvements are becoming more and more marginal recently, take for example Intel's delays with releasing Broadwell. From a lot of data I've seen, performance and energy with a newer and newer technologies aren't improving nearly as much as they used to. We're at 14nm right now with Intel's Broadwell. I wouldn't expect huge improvements in 10nm either, and 7nm no one knows what is going to happen (Intel has made comments that they need to move away from silicon from 7nm, but no one knows exactly what's after 7nm)

Most of the improvements from here on out, as long we we stick with silicon, need to be in either through improved architectures (Core-M being a first step for the rMB type of device, but certainly far from perfect) and software/algorithms improvements (OS optimizations). Thus, I'd say the El Capitan update is as important as generational improvements with the hardware, which is different than past years where hardware was improving rapidly and software performance improvements were relatively minor.

It's unfortunate but that is the reality with the semiconductor industry at the moment, so I'd say Apple's lineup is more reflective of that than anything else. (At least with regards to performance, battery capacity and pricing are certainly debatable) The good news is, since Apple is very vertically integrated, they are in a good position to do hardware/software co-optimizations.

 

[shenan1982]

The good news is, since Apple is very vertically integrated, they are in a good position to do hardware/software co-optimizations.

Agreed, with the 10.10.4xxx betas, it's improved slightly.... and I think with 10.11 it'll continue to do so as well, so at least we're moving in the right direction. I think the rMB (and future redesigns of the rMBP to take advantage of the new technologies in the rMB) will only provide better options all around.

 

[PDFierro]

Yeah. But that dissatisfaction evolved with time. You initially were satisfied with it because when the Air line came out, Retina wasn't really a thing. But when we saw the other kids getting the cool new toys with retina, looking at the Air was looking into the past, not the future. That I can understand and agree with.

Nah, I didn't get the rMBP until Haswell came out. But the new rMB is basically my vision of a perfect laptop.