1 Month In - Thinking of going MBP

[shenan1982]

You are. Price =/= hardware performance. You are paying for a whole package, including both form factor and software.

Many notebooks on the market are examples of this - take the Panasonic ToughBook for example, or any of Dell's Rugged Series Latitudes. They're extremely expensive computer due to what they are, and come with lower end hardware when looking at base models.

You don't purchase a notebook like this and set your expectations high for hardware performance. You purchase a notebook like this and set your expectations high if a truck runs it over. This is the MacBook on the very opposite end of that same spectrum.

That would be an interesting concept if the laptop at least was able to reasonably handle flash, a technology that's been around for a decade, and even the most basic computer can handle these days. I don't expect to be able to do real-time video editing, but Flash is a no-brainer expectation of ANY computer you buy today. Heck, even my retina iPad can run flash smoothly (within Atomic Browser). So to say my new computer is less capable than my 2 year old iPad is sad.

 

[Dark Void]

That would be an interesting concept if the laptop at least was able to reasonably handle flash, a technology that's been around for a decade, and even the most basic computer can handle these days. I don't expect to be able to do real-time video editing, but Flash is a no-brainer expectation of ANY computer you buy today. Heck, even my retina iPad can run flash smoothly (within Atomic Browser). So to say my new computer is less capable than my 2 year old iPad is sad.

It is not a concept, it is reality. Your claims hold no water, as MANY users have gone against what you are saying as far as a generally fluid experience. However, you continue to go on about how it is unable to handle applications like Mail to your standards when others have posted their positive experiences about the exact same thing. I would believe many users about a positive experience over one with a negative experience who is clearly not happy at all with their purchase.

How do you know there isn't something affecting your rMB to cause the stuttering and overall lack of fluidity that you claim? You wouldn't know, as all you've continually done is complain about it, shoot down every suggestion, and continue to use the rMB. You have stated in this sub-forum that "at this point" there would be no sense in selling it and switching notebooks in your opinion, and instead you will continue to use it for the next X or Y amount of months. Is this not a direct contradiction of what you are claiming users are so foolishly doing with their notebooks - limiting their usage, expectations, and only completing 80 some odd miles of a 120 mile commute or some sort of automobile analogy? You literally plan on using a notebook that you are dissatisfied with for an extended period of time.

Sell it. Or is it that you secretly enjoy it? Or you're just too lazy to do anything yet complain on the forums? Not that it matters any to me, but my goodness it's as if you started a thread just to vent and not take advice from a single user.

 

[shenan1982]

It is not a concept, it is reality. Your claims hold no water, as MANY users have gone against what you are saying as far as a generally fluid experience. However, you continue to go on about how it is unable to handle applications like Mail to your standards when others have posted their positive experiences about the exact same thing. I would believe many users about a positive experience over one with a negative experience who is clearly not happy at all with their purchase.

How do you know there isn't something affecting your rMB to cause the stuttering and overall lack of fluidity that you claim? You wouldn't know, as all you've continually done is complain about it, shoot down every suggestion, and continue to use the rMB. You have stated in this sub-forum that "at this point" there would be no sense in selling it and switching notebooks in your opinion, and instead you will continue to use it for the next X or Y amount of months. Is this not a direct contradiction of what you are claiming users are so foolishly doing with their notebooks - limiting their usage, expectations, and only completing 80 some odd miles of a 120 mile commute or some sort of automobile analogy? You literally plan on using a notebook that you are dissatisfied with for an extended period of time.

Sell it. Or is it that you secretly enjoy it? Or you're just too lazy to do anything yet complain on the forums? Not that it matters any to me, but my goodness it's as if you started a thread just to vent and not take advice from a single user.

I've done a fresh install, so yeah, I can say there's nothing CAUSING the issue.

I absolutely refuse to disable the standard features of OS X to be able to use my laptop, as many have suggested I do.

I love that you keep pointing to those happy with their purchases as evidence that there are no issues. I'm fairly certain that there were a LOT of people happy with the iPhone 4, myself included, but I didn't trash the millions who bought it and experienced the "antennagate" issue.

Just because there are a lot of happy people doesn't discredit my opinion that one should be able to use the features their OS comes with, and have a pleasant experience using common technologies like flash.

I'm not lazy or I wouldn't be spending my time whining about the underperformance of the issue.

 

[shenan1982]

It is not a concept, it is reality. Your claims hold no water, as MANY users have gone against what you are saying as far as a generally fluid experience. However, you continue to go on about how it is unable to handle applications like Mail to your standards when others have posted their positive experiences about the exact same thing.

Let's see how flash performs on YOUR rMB then. Since you demanded evidence from me, let's see a screen video capture of myVegas (one of the most popular flash games on Facebook) and show me I'm an isolated case. Bet you can't.

 

[Dark Void]

I've done a fresh install, so yeah, I can say there's nothing CAUSING the issue.

You're positive then that all of your internal hardware is functioning as intended?

I absolutely refuse to disable the standard features of OS X to be able to use my laptop, as many have suggested I do.

I agree here. I wouldn't suggest this personally.

I love that you keep pointing to those happy with their purchases as evidence that there are no issues.

I didn't say that there were no issues at all, I'm saying that if 10 people say that Mail is fluid on the rMB, and one says the experience is choppy - I would trust the 10 people over the one.

Just because there are a lot of happy people doesn't discredit my opinion that one should be able to use the features their OS comes with, and have a pleasant experience using common technologies like flash.

It doesn't discredit it completely, no, but it makes it highly unlikely to be true that it is "normal."

Let's see how flash performs on YOUR rMB then. Since you demanded evidence from me, let's see a screen video capture of myVegas (one of the most popular flash games on Facebook) and show me I'm an isolated case. Bet you can't.

What is your agenda, exactly?

You would win that bet, as I don't own one. I have used one. You're saying that those who say that Flash runs fine are lying, then? Show me where I demanded evidence as well please.

 

[shenan1982]

You're positive then that all of your internal hardware is functioning as intended?

I agree here. I wouldn't suggest this personally.

I didn't say that there were no issues at all, I'm saying that if 10 people say that Mail is fluid on the rMB, and one says the experience is choppy - I would trust the 10 people over the one.

It doesn't discredit it completely, no, but it makes it highly unlikely to be true that it is "normal."

My internal hardware is functioning as intended? LOL. Maybe my processor isn't functioning properly. Maybe my RAM is not working. Maybe my battery is the cause. Do you realize how silly all that is? And FWIW I went into the store and the issues were all persistent on every demo model of the rMB in the Apple store (my store I tried has 6 units on display, all had the issues I complain about).

Let's use another example. If you poll 10 people who bought an iPhone and are using it, do you think that's a fair judgement of issues\overall product performance\review? Of course not. You would have to open that poll to everyone who bought and returned it for lack of performance, everyone who bought it and also bought an Android and went with Android, and everyone who passed on buying it because it didn't have sufficient specs for them. You're only taking the demographic of people growing the rMB forum, which of course are the people who have it. I don't browse the Mac Pro forum, so my opinions of the product, good or bad, don't get tallied in there. Your determination of public opinion isn't a good methodology. ;-)

I trust reviews more than I trust users. Users tend to give Apple a pass on a LOT of shortcomings. Reviews generally are ultra-critical of every aspect. I have found NO review which doesn't point out the major shortcomings of the processor Apple elected to put into this computer.

 

[Dark Void]

I trust reviews more than I trust users. Users tend to give Apple a pass on a LOT of shortcomings. Reviews generally are ultra-critical of every aspect. I have found NO review which doesn't point out the major shortcomings of the processor Apple elected to put into this computer.

So why are you posting here? You want people to tell you that you're right and it's a terrible computer? If that's your opinion then you should read reviews and make your decision accordingly I would say.

 

[PDFierro]

It's not simply mail, it's all aspects of the system... opening apps... browsing web pages... the experience using web pages with flash... everything I do is slow slow slow compared to MBA or MBP.

rMBP: https://vid.me/1zjP

rMB: https://vid.me/UW3W

Even the basic scrolling is crippled. AWFUL. I'm not going to post a Mail demo because you don't need to see my emails. It's similar to this though, the processor just can't keep up with the speed I want to work\play.

I guess you'll blame me for using flash now. After all, only 20% of web sites on the internet use flash, so I'm wrong for expecting a reasonable experience out of a computer that cost me $1700.

Several of us aren't experiencing these issues. But wait, you won't believe that.

 

[shenan1982]

So why are you posting here? You want people to tell you that you're right and it's a terrible computer? If that's your opinion then you should read reviews and make your decision accordingly I would say.

The problem is the way Apple released this laptop, there really were not a whole ton of reviews prior to its release. So I basically was my own test dummy.

 

[shenan1982]

Several of us aren't experiencing these issues. But wait, you won't believe that.

I'd love to see your video of Flash games performing smoothly on your rMB. Given that every unit I've loaded the flash on has the same issue.

 

[happyslayer]

So I read your post, OP, and a whole lot of the responses. And I just can't duplicate your experiences. At least for relatively basic computing tasks... which is mostly all I do on this little 12" MB. I do not notice any of the lag in programs you talk about. And this after I traded from an 8 month-old Late 2014 13" rMBP, with i5, 8GB, 256SSD.

In fact, I have gone so far as to run both the 12" rMB (1.2/512) against the 13" rMBP side-by-side and open web pages in Chrome and Safari. Open docs and files in Office 15 for Mac preview, messages in Mail, appointments in Calendar, add/edit in Contacts and spend some time writing/editing my docs in Scrivener. All of them--with the occasional exception of Office 15 preview--are very near identical. (Office does occasionally lag when opening a document for the first time. of course it also crashes sometimes too, but it is a beta/preview) I noted that you stated that you are noticing 1/2 second delays compared to more powerful Macs and I am honestly not seeing even that little bit of difference. (Though that would be hard to measure, I just am not feeling it.) My experience playing Flash video and things like YouTube has been stellar (have a YouTube video playing now, as I write this even.) I seriously wonder what the difference may be. It is also, possible that I am more forgiving and maybe I am truly not noticing such delays.

The Keyboard is subjective and you either like it or don't. I love it and hope they release an external model for the iMac. Yes I may have drank the Kool-Aide I guess when it comes to the new thin design and butterfly mechanisms, but I really like this keyboard! I love the click sound it makes as well and miss it on other Macs now.

Battery has been a mixed bag and has really varied based on the version of Mac OS X I am running. I am in the developer beta and run the various builds and some have made for great battery and others... not so much. I am currently running El Capitan DP1 and it has been... very, very, not so good. Abysmal even. I have considered going back to the last beta build of Yosemite just for that reason. But it's the software and not the rMB that is the issue. When I'm on a good build of OS X, I was easily getting 10 or more hours of battery.

So, again, not sure how your experience is so different. On the other hand, if you are used to more power and you run more complex apps, get the 13" Pro top-end model. It is heavier, but it is a great performer and you will probably be happier in the long run.

 

[Wallabe]

If you really intend to keep the rMB and your problems are genuine, bring it to an Apple Store, they may be able to fix or exchange it.

Otherwise, I don't see a need for you to keep something you're not satisfied with. Return it and keep using what you were happy with.

I got my rMB yesterday, and so far, everything loads instantly or nearly instantly. I have no complaints about the rMB performance.

 

[shenan1982]

If you really intend to keep the rMB and your problems are genuine, bring it to an Apple Store, they may be able to fix or exchange it.

I did, and they said it was because it has a Core M processor. Believe me, if I for a second thought it was something wrong with my machine, I'd have swapped it for another.

 

[shenan1982]

So I read your post, OP, and a whole lot of the responses. And I just can't duplicate your experiences. At least for relatively basic computing tasks... which is mostly all I do on this little 12" MB. I do not notice any of the lag in programs you talk about. And this after I traded from an 8 month-old Late 2014 13" rMBP, with i5, 8GB, 256SSD.

In fact, I have gone so far as to run both the 12" rMB (1.2/512) against the 13" rMBP side-by-side and open web pages in Chrome and Safari. Open docs and files in Office 15 for Mac preview, messages in Mail, appointments in Calendar, add/edit in Contacts and spend some time writing/editing my docs in Scrivener. All of them--with the occasional exception of Office 15 preview--are very near identical. (Office does occasionally lag when opening a document for the first time. of course it also crashes sometimes too, but it is a beta/preview) I noted that you stated that you are noticing 1/2 second delays compared to more powerful Macs and I am honestly not seeing even that little bit of difference. (Though that would be hard to measure, I just am not feeling it.) My experience playing Flash video and things like YouTube has been stellar (have a YouTube video playing now, as I write this even.) I seriously wonder what the difference may be. It is also, possible that I am more forgiving and maybe I am truly not noticing such delays.

The Keyboard is subjective and you either like it or don't. I love it and hope they release an external model for the iMac. Yes I may have drank the Kool-Aide I guess when it comes to the new thin design and butterfly mechanisms, but I really like this keyboard! I love the click sound it makes as well and miss it on other Macs now.

Battery has been a mixed bag and has really varied based on the version of Mac OS X I am running. I am in the developer beta and run the various builds and some have made for great battery and others... not so much. I am currently running El Capitan DP1 and it has been... very, very, not so good. Abysmal even. I have considered going back to the last beta build of Yosemite just for that reason. But it's the software and not the rMB that is the issue. When I'm on a good build of OS X, I was easily getting 10 or more hours of battery.

So, again, not sure how your experience is so different. On the other hand, if you are used to more power and you run more complex apps, get the 13" Pro top-end model. It is heavier, but it is a great performer and you will probably be happier in the long run.

You're really saying its performance is on par with your 2014 rMBP? LOL LOL LOL

Clearly people here are in denial of reality: https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

 

[Wallabe]

I'll give the benefit of the doubt here that you may have received a bad processor unit. Tell me how your replacement performs once you played around with it.

 

[PDFierro]

I'd love to see your video of Flash games performing smoothly on your rMB. Given that every unit I've loaded the flash on has the same issue.

I haven't used Flash once on my rMB. But you also claim the rMB slows down in other areas. This thing is as smooth as can be for me.

 

[palpatine]

i won't deny shenan's claims, but from my perspective (coming from a 2013 15"rmbp), the performance has been fantastic for everything, even flash. every display model worked great, and mine has worked great as well, so i can only guess that shenan's particular use case is somehow falling outside the computer's performance envelope. maybe that game they mentioned, i don't know. i'd sell it, get an mba or rmbp, and move on.

as for other users, if you have a use case similar to mine (mentioned earlier), there is nothing to worry about.

that said, this is a second computer for me, and i do any heavy lifting with my rmbp (ocr of thousands of scanned pdf pages, large handbrake conversions, etc.). a little bit of this stuff is probably fine on the rmb, but even the 15" rmbp limps along with fans screaming at times, so you wouldn't want the rmb as your main computer if these tasks were an everyday thing for you. i think these particular activities are uncommon, but perhaps akin to the load put on a computer by games (flash included?), so serious gamers ought to be cautious, though that should be obvious, like buying a prius to race in the indy 500. the prius is a great car, but the use case doesn't fit.

personally, i avoid flash whenever possible (sometimes i have no choice because people make terrible website design choices), so i doubt i will run across shenan's problem.

 

[shenan1982]

I'll give the benefit of the doubt here that you may have received a bad processor unit. Tell me how your replacement performs once you played around with it.

I'm telling you as I've said numerous times... the store units perform the same way. Not an issue with my computer.

 

[jimboutilier]

Well said, for those that "do their homework" the rMB is a very solid system and performs exactly as expected. Apple can only build on what is already on offer from the current rMB. I for one will upgrade to Skylake soon as it`s released, as being one who relies on OS X and the Mac for their livelihood it`s a basic calc.

Q-6

While I would normally pre-order or be ready to pounce as soon as orders opened up on a new Apple product that excited me, all the bleeding edge tech had me worried on this one. I wanted to see at least a few good reviews and preferably put my hands on one before ordering. But after doing those things I was reassured enough to place an order.

When I got my 1.3/512 rMB it was a bit painful to set up because of the 10.10.2 WiFi bug and USB-C but once I got my Time Machine recovery done under 10.10.3 it was smooth sailing.

I expected it to be great at routine tasks like Office apps, surfing, video playback, music, drawing, design and and other highly interactive apps that feature the user as the bottleneck. And it was!

What I did not really expect, was how good it turned out to be at more intensive tasks like photo processing, database work, development etc. I mean it's no speed demon there, but it's impreesive for 5wTDP. It was faster than my ultimate 2013/14 MBA at routine tasks and only about 15% slower at my common sustained tasks (better if I'm docked and cooling it)

I do a lot of data analysis, loading many CSV files with around 10M record's each. And do queries against multiple 100M row tables. And the rMB is surprisingly good at it. It's slower than my MBA but still quite usable. That really impresses me. What took 3 or 4 minutes on my MBA only takes 4-5 on my rMB

I did my research and what seemed suitable for my use more than met my expectations. I did a lot of testing in the first week pushing it's envelope to make sure and I am. While there are lots of things it's NOT good at, (anything taxing CPU and GPU simultaneously or keeps both CPU cores taxed for more than a minute or so it pretty much sucks at) it's great at the things I do daily, and good at the rest of the things I need to do on an ultrabook.

If you are coming to a rMB from a quad core rMBP you taxed in any way you may very well be diassapointed. Similar for a recent dual core rMBP but to less of a degree. If you are coming from a recent but not current MBA you did not tax heavily I'd suggest your chances of being happy are good. But there are exceptions.

The rMB isn't perfect, isn't good for really taxing sustained work, but it can really be a great machine for many people's routine use and is worth looking at if it apeals to you.

There, a nice positive but hopefully realistic post. I feel much better now.

 

[shenan1982]

I haven't used Flash once on my rMB. But you also claim the rMB slows down in other areas. This thing is as smooth as can be for me.

Well given the benchmark scores (I linked), you're obviously not using it for much except basic use if you don't notice it benchmarks at 1/3 of a rMBP and 1/4 of a iMac 5k, and about 1/2 a MBA 2014

 

[shenan1982]

It was faster than my ultimate 2013/14 MBA at routine tasks and only about 15% slower at my common sustained tasks (better if I'm docked and cooling it)

There, a nice positive but hopefully realistic post. I feel much better now.

Not realistic. The benchmarks go against everything you say. Benchmarks discredit your entire above claim.

 

[shenan1982]

I haven't used Flash once on my rMB. But you also claim the rMB slows down in other areas. This thing is as smooth as can be for me.

You haven't used flash, or you've avoided using flash? 20% of sites on the internet utilize flash. You really have to put effort into avoiding 20% of the web.

 

[Dark Void]

You haven't used flash, or you've avoided using flash? 20% of sites on the internet utilize flash. You really have to put effort into avoiding 20% of the web.

Or take 2 minutes to install a ClickToFlash or Adblock extension for your internet browser.

 

[shenan1982]

Or take 2 minutes to install a ClickToFlash or Adblock extension for your internet browser.

Like I said when someone suggested turning off features built into OS X, I WILL NOT DISABLE FEATURES DESIGNED TO MAXIMIZE USER EXPERIENCE. Apple built in graphical elements into OS X that are meant to work on all supported macs as old as 10 years ago. Why should I have to disable them to make my computer usable? Furthermore, why should I have to disable Flash, a technology that runs fine on 10 year old computers, just to have a reasonable experience on my Macbook? That makes no sense. If I wanted to have to disable all of the visual and technological elements of my computer, I'd just buy a 2002 Mac and save a ton of money.

 

[Dark Void]

Like I said when someone suggested turning off features built into OS X, I WILL NOT DISABLE FEATURES DESIGNED TO MAXIMIZE USER EXPERIENCE. Apple built in graphical elements into OS X that are meant to work on all supported macs as old as 10 years ago. Why should I have to disable them to make my computer usable? Furthermore, why should I have to disable Flash, a technology that runs fine on 10 year old computers, just to have a reasonable experience on my Macbook? That makes no sense. If I wanted to have to disable all of the visual and technological elements of my computer, I'd just buy a 2002 Mac and save a ton of money.

Oh boy where to start.

Flash Player is not built into OS X. In fact, you have to install it and update it regularly. This is assuming that you don't use Chrome as your browser.

Why, on earth, are you defending Flash? You're literally going to argue that you shouldn't have to install ClickToFlash (pretty sure almost everyone at least uses ClickToFlash, if not then Adblock) and would rather defend Flash based advertisements and other poorly generated Flash content as a part of your more than likely made up 20% statistic? Flash is generally UNWANTED by most. I realize in some cases there is no choice but what are you ACTUALLY defending?

There is nothing that flash based advertisements, clutter, and terrible optimization has to offer you as a part of maximizing your user experience. Sorry your Facebook games aren't playing smoothly?

You're ignorant if you think Flash is a problem free technology and runs fine on "10 year old computers." It can, but you're making ridiculous generalizations while defending who knows what.