10.2.2, 10.2.3 before XMas

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Thirteenva


Though at this point I still feel that 10.2 as good as it is, is not a complete system and we will not be getting a complete OSX system for at least a year.
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Could you please explain this further, i know you answered this a couple posts up but you really didnt elaborate. I think this is a very complete OS, thats why it was packaged and sold as a complete OS for full price. I find this OS to be way more complete and feature rich than any windows systems i use. If you're talking about minor bugs, well that doesnt make it any less complete. Windows OS's are so buggy that they'd still be considered beta's by that logic(and maybe they should be, lol).

I'm sorry I haven't responded promptly on this but believe it or not as much as I love all of you I do have to give and go to work some times.

Okay here goes I will try to explain this. I'm not necessarily comparing the system as a whole to winbloze or any other system. I think that OSX has come the closest to perfection that any GUI system ever has structurally. I still think that the user experience has a long way to go. In OS9 I could organize my applications by categories in any folder I wanted and the system updaters would always find them or install a completely new version. Not so in OSX if it doesn't find it, it either installs an incomplete version or none at all. Also I hate to do this but XP has some features I want starting with list view you can organize any folder containing music by Artist, time, bit rate, etc.. This carries over to the iApps. There just isn't enough user customizable preferences in OSX. I don't feel that it's not possible in OSX it's just that Apple has been focusing on system level improvements. This has been the correct goal for them in my opinion and they nearly have that end of it licked. I see vast user interface improvements in the year to come as the system requires less and less of there time.

This is what I mean as 10.2 being an incomplete system. I know that all systems are improved over time but I feel that we are still dealing with a version 1.x system here. Although a very good, if not the best system at this level ever.

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Prediction, No Mac OS XI or OS11

Originally posted by mjtomlin
By the time Apple completes the development cycle of OS X ... the operating system will run on many other Apple branded products, not just Macintosh labeled computers. (Already powering Xserve, which does contain the Macintosh label)

They've also removed the "Happy Mac" power up screen and replaced it with the Apple logo. The same way the iPod powers up.

So I predict they'll end up changing it to Apple OS or something like that. If they even decided to stick with "OS" at all.

I also believe that once Apple gains enough market share (maybe double what they have now), they'll begin to license the operating system again. There has to be enough evidence that 'other' people are willing to use or switch to Apple's OS to justify having it on non Apple hardware. It of course also helps to have a fairly large hardware user base out there to help keep revenue up, once some of them switch to non-Apple hardware.

However once enough Cocoa apps are available, Apple may also choose to come out with a very cheap low end system using a x86 CPU. Cocoa allows for easy cross platform development. It is after all an abstract environment, completely removed from hardware. Compile your app twice ... once for PPC and again for x86 or any other CPU for that matter and you instantly have a program that will run on any Apple OS based system, regardless of what hardware it's running on.

Anyway, that's what I predict the future holds for Apple.

There are serious problems with licensing a System. The biggest is that if there are incompatibilities the end user is always looking to the end System developer for help. This is why Winbloze sucks so bad. They have to write the system for the lowest common denominator. That being the slowest oldest crummiest put together system that they will license the system to run on. There are a lot of systems that meet those definitions out there and this explains in part why Windows is a perfect example of bloatware. They just keep having to write more and more code so it will work under these systems.

Apple's current ideology is nearly perfect not only do they write the system but they write it to work on there system. They don't have to worry that some computer meeting all the specs out there somewhere put together by some licensee crashing on startup just because the system doesn't recognize something. This also lets Apple develop the hardware to fit there image of what they want there software to do and ensure that it all works correctly.

 

[Thirteenva]

Originally posted by MacBandit



I'm sorry I haven't responded promptly on this but believe it or not as much as I love all of you I do have to give and go to work some times.

lol... i hear ya, i sneak some personal internet time in during work....

Okay here goes I will try to explain this. I'm not necessarily comparing the system as a whole to winbloze or any other system. I think that OSX has come the closest to perfection that any GUI system ever has structurally. I still think that the user experience has a long way to go.

Interesting perspective. I actually enjoy my user experience more in os x than i did in 9. So i'm on the other side of the street here.

In OS9 I could organize my applications by categories in any folder I wanted and the system updaters would always find them or install a completely new version.

I disagree, i had this problem in os 9 on a number of occasions with updates not finding the apps and i had to manually select the folder they resided in. I see not being any diffrent in OS X.

Not so in OSX if it doesn't find it, it either installs an incomplete version or none at all.

My situation with this has been different. Any time my updates couldnt find the app it usually gives me a prompt to locate it myself. I've never had an incomplete version install.

Also I hate to do this but XP has some features I want starting with list view you can organize any folder containing music by Artist, time, bit rate, etc..

No worry, i understand there are some small features in windows that the mac could benefit from. I use windows all day at work 🙁 but i do find some small features that i think would be useful on a mac. However as a whole i do not enjoy fighting....uhh i mean using windows...

This carries over to the iApps. There just isn't enough user customizable preferences in OSX. I don't feel that it's not possible in OSX it's just that Apple has been focusing on system level improvements. This has been the correct goal for them in my opinion and they nearly have that end of it licked. I see vast user interface improvements in the year to come as the system requires less and less of there time.

I agree. I want more user customizable preferences also. This is my major UI complaint with OS. I wouldn't label OS X as being incomplete without it BUT it would be nice to have some more prefs...

This is what I mean as 10.2 being an incomplete system. I know that all systems are improved over time but I feel that we are still dealing with a version 1.x system here. Although a very good, if not the best system at this level ever.

I understand your complaints, i would not choose to use incomplete to describe them. Maybe its a less personal computing experience, seeing as how most of the interface was easily customized in 9 and not as much can be customized in 10, yet..

 

[Anecdoter]

Are New Macs Upgraded?

Hi,
Just a quick question. If I were to buy a Mac now, would it have just 10.2 on it, or would 10.2.1 be installed? Likewise, are all the iApps the latest version, or do they need to be upgraded as well?
Basically, I'm wondering how long I'll need to download updates to make a new Mac current.

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Are New Macs Upgraded?

Originally posted by Anecdoter
Hi,
Just a quick question. If I were to buy a Mac now, would it have just 10.2 on it, or would 10.2.1 be installed? Likewise, are all the iApps the latest version, or do they need to be upgraded as well?
Basically, I'm wondering how long I'll need to download updates to make a new Mac current.

It will have 10.2.1 and on some of them they are coming a new version of 10.2.1.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Thirteenva

I disagree, i had this problem in os 9 on a number of occasions with updates not finding the apps and i had to manually select the folder they resided in. I see not being any diffrent in OS X.

My situation with this has been different. Any time my updates couldnt find the app it usually gives me a prompt to locate it myself. I've never had an incomplete version install.

I kind of specifically talking about the Apple update installers. They are the ones I've had problems with. When I had iTunes in a sound folder it did not find it and it did not install correctly. It also did not give me an option to find it. At least in OS9 it would install completely or give you an option to find the missing program.

Okay I guess incomplete is open to interpretation but I think a system is made up fo two parts. The underlying base that you don't ever mess with and the GUI that you interact with. At this point I think the GUI is at least half missing options and functions that would make life a lot easier. This in my mind makes it incomplete.

Also I think it would be difficult to argue that OSX is not still a 1.x version or even just on the verge from beta to 1.x. I have never considered a program done until it hit at least 2.x. At that point the main functions of the program have been added and everything from that point on is debugging or adding little stuff or even complete rewrites to completely change the program but I think you get my point.

 

[Thirteenva]

Originally posted by MacBandit


I kind of specifically talking about the Apple update installers. They are the ones I've had problems with. When I had iTunes in a sound folder it did not find it and it did not install correctly. It also did not give me an option to find it. At least in OS9 it would install completely or give you an option to find the missing program.

Oh, apple updates, didn't even think of that. I have had that problem.

At one point when i still had the 20 gb HD in my tibook, i was running out of room in my system partition (housing both oS 9 an 10) so i moved a bunch of stuff to my Files partition and made alias of system related programs and files. I was able to update without too much of a hassle but i hear what your saying, If apple is going to assume that the mail.app or itunes or whatever is in the default spot then they should at leas perform a check and allow you to point to it manually when it is not located.