10.6 compatible eSATA card for '09 Pro

[aibo]

Could you provide details as to how your drive are setup?

Thanks.

I'm going to consolidate everything into a Drobo S soon -- it's kind of a mess right now.

Internal
Optical Bay - X25-M for boot/apps, using SATA port off mobo
Bay 1 - WD640AAKS
Bay 2 - WD20EADS
Bay 3 - WD20EADS
Bay 4 - WD10EACS

eSATA enclosure
Bay 1 - WD10EACS
Bay 2 - WD10EACS

 

[aibo]

XLR8YourMac reviewed the NewerTech eSATA 6G PCIe this morning:

http://xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/NewerTech6G_eSATA/Newertech_6GeSataCard.html#storytop

 

[nanofrog]

I'm going to consolidate everything into a Drobo S soon -- it's kind of a mess right now.

Internal
Optical Bay - X25-M for boot/apps, using SATA port off mobo
Bay 1 - WD640AAKS
Bay 2 - WD20EADS
Bay 3 - WD20EADS
Bay 4 - WD10EACS

eSATA enclosure
Bay 1 - WD10EACS
Bay 2 - WD10EACS

I presume it's all being used under OS X. The Drobo should clean things up nicely.

If the newer tech card does what it's supposed to, you should be fine with it. But please keep us posted.

XLR8YourMac reviewed the NewerTech eSATA 6G PCIe this morning:

http://xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/NewerTech6G_eSATA/Newertech_6GeSataCard.html#storytop

Thanks. I'll give it a read.

 

[Mattww]

The NewerTech card sound good given that it supports the 64-bit kernel and doesn't require any special drivers so you can alway run the latest OS rather than having the wait for updates. Anyone know if you can hot swop SATA drives in a dock (Voyager Q) like with FireWire or if you have to reboot every time when using eSATA?

 

[nanofrog]

The NewerTech card sound good given that it supports the 64-bit kernel and doesn't require any special drivers so you can alway run the latest OS rather than having the wait for updates. Anyone know if you can hot swop SATA drives in a dock (Voyager Q) like with FireWire or if you have to reboot every time when using eSATA?

As it relys on the default SATA drivers in OS X, it's not Hot Swap compliant. So it will require a shut down, plug the drive in, and reboot to mount drives.

It should also be noted, that the newertech card does NOT support Port Multiplier enclosures, nor boot OS X.

 

[pprior]

As it relys on the default SATA drivers in OS X, it's not Hot Swap compliant. So it will require a shut down, plug the drive in, and reboot to mount drives.

It should also be noted, that the newertech card does NOT support Port Multiplier enclosures, nor boot OS X.

I think this may be my problem. If it's not hot swap compatible, it's junk IMO. Guess I shouldn't have been so quick to buy one.

Why is it so freaking hard to get a decent SATA card for a mac pro that will work under snow leopard!!??

 

[nanofrog]

I think this may be my problem. If it's not hot swap compatible, it's junk IMO. Guess I shouldn't have been so quick to buy one.

It was listed towards the bottom of the page. Oops.

Why is it so freaking hard to get a decent SATA card for a mac pro that will work under snow leopard!!??

Few companies want to deal with Macs I guess, as Apple's difficult to work with as I understand it. SL seems to be more problematic than previous versions of OS X as well, as the SIL3132 based cards worked fine under Leopard IIRC.

 

[sailmac]

StarTech and Voyager docks swap okay with NT6GB eSATA, but quad interface doesn't?

The NewerTech card sound good given that it supports the 64-bit kernel and doesn't require any special drivers so you can alway run the latest OS rather than having the wait for updates. Anyone know if you can hot swop SATA drives in a dock (Voyager Q) like with FireWire or if you have to reboot every time when using eSATA?

I installed the NewerTech 6GB eSATA card into my Mac Pro (early 2008, running SL 10.6.2) a few days ago. Here are some things I have found

1. The card performs faster when placed in a PCIe 2.0 slot (slot 1 or 2 in the '08 MP) than in a PCIe 1.0 slot (slot 3 or 4 in the '08 MP) even when the drives aren't anywhere near to saturating either slot's theoretical limit. This based on benchmarks running AJA KONA.

2. Drives placed in a StarTech dock (SATADOCK22UE) mount/unmount fine without reboot.

Also, I've traded email with Mike at xlr8yourmac and he mentioned that his Voyager Q dock, connected to NT 6GB eSATA card in his '09 MP running 10.5.8, swaps fine without reboot.

3. A 750GB OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro "quad interface" drive requires reboot to mount with eSATA. It mounts without reboot using FW800. Unclear if that is 'expected' behavior and I am awaiting reply from OWC on that matter.

Seems to me that since the StarTech dock doesn't require reboot, the MEALP drive shouldn't either. Along that same line of thought, Mike commented that he didn't see reboot issues with the dual-drive eSATA-only case he used for his original test.

Maybe it is a bridge or firmware issue with the MEALP?

 

[nanofrog]

Maybe it is a bridge or firmware issue with the MEALP?

It could be the actual version of OS X. The Client edition doesn't have Hot Swap support in the SATA drivers, but the Server edition DOES.

 

[sailmac]

It could be the actual version of OS X. The Client edition doesn't have Hot Swap support in the SATA drivers, but the Server edition DOES.

I'm confused.

Why does the eSATA dock work fine with the eSATA card under 10.6.2, but the enclosed drive with eSATA port does not?

Seems to me both should work or both should not.

 

[nanofrog]

I'm confused.

Why does the eSATA dock work fine with the eSATA card under 10.6.2, but the enclosed drive with eSATA port does not?

Seems to me both should work or both should not.

Hot Swap is an optional feature to SATA, so the drivers in the OS have to support it or 3rd party drivers used with their respective cards (i.e. PCIe eSATA card can provide Hot Swap in a system that's running OS X Client edition).

By default, OS X's client version does NOT have the Hot Swap feature, nor does the MP's PSU have an Inrush Current Limiter (actual electronic circuit to prevent damage to the PSU) from plugging a device in while system is operational, called Hot Plugging.

OS X Server does have Hot Swap. So either there's drivers used (came with the enclosure, and it's possible with ready-made external drives) with the other system you referenced (i.e. no problems & found on the web) that weren't mentioned, or it's running OS X Server.

Generally speaking, Hot Swap capability is enabled when the system is using either AHCI or RAID mode for the SATA chip (i.e. BIOS settings accessible in a PC).

But that's not possible in a MP by the user, as Apple doesn't give access. The default is Legacy mode (which does NOT have Hot Swap support). Hence the need for OS X to provide it in it's own drivers. Apple took a different approach it seems with the MP and XServe, as they've different uses in Apple's way of thinking (RAID was expected to be used with Servers). So Hot Swap was only enabled in the Server edition (additional code in the SATA drivers to provide the support).

 

[sailmac]

Thanks nanofrog.

I'm reading and re-reading everything you wrote, but I still don't feel any closer to understanding why my

Mac Pro + eSATA card + eSATA-connected HDD dock + bare HDD = mount/unmount just like FireWire or USB

but my

Mac Pro + eSATA card + eSATA-connected OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro external drive = mount requires reboot

I believe that if I opened up the OWC MEALP enclosure, took the drive out, and inserted it into the HDD dock, then it would mount just fine without reboot. (Please don't ask me to do it though, since I don't intend to void the warranty by opening the OWC case and ruining the little warning sticker!)

My interpretation of the NewerTech 6GB eSATA card specs is that "driverless" installation is a pimary feature. It "just works".

And that's what is happening with the HDD dock -- it just works.

But the OWC MEALP isn't following suit when connected by eSATA. I'm still wondering whether that is a limitation in the enclosure, or possibly a defect. I wrote to OWC about this on Thu-Feb-4 and hopefully they will respond soon.

Sorry if I am not seeing something that looks blindingly obvious to you!

 

[nanofrog]

Thanks nanofrog.

I'm reading and re-reading everything you wrote, but I still don't feel any closer to understanding why my

Mac Pro + eSATA card + eSATA-connected HDD dock + bare HDD = mount/unmount just like FireWire or USB

but my

Mac Pro + eSATA card + eSATA-connected OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro external drive = mount requires reboot

I believe that if I opened up the OWC MEALP enclosure, took the drive out, and inserted it into the HDD dock, then it would mount just fine without reboot. (Please don't ask me to do it though, since I don't intend to void the warranty by opening the OWC case and ruining the little warning sticker!)

My interpretation of the NewerTech 6GB eSATA card specs is that "driverless" installation is a pimary feature. It "just works".

And that's what is happening with the HDD dock -- it just works.

But the OWC MEALP isn't following suit when connected by eSATA. I'm still wondering whether that is a limitation in the enclosure, or possibly a defect. I wrote to OWC about this on Thu-Feb-4 and hopefully they will respond soon.

Sorry if I am not seeing something that looks blindingly obvious to you!

I've gone back and taken a closer look at the hardware you're using.

The newertech card does use AHCI, so it supports Hot Swap. But the OWC enclosure uses an Oxford 924 chipset (super cheap POS parts). Oxford's have been problematic for a long time, so I don't trust them at all, and is the likely reason it's malfunctioning in the system. They've been bought up by PLX, and it's improving the parts, but the old stuff isn't being touched. It might even be stockpiled components they're trying to sell off. Not sure on that detail though, it's just a possibility.

I thought you compared your system to another's you'd found online, and the most likely scenario is one system had Hot Swap functionality in drivers, while the other didn't.

But a single system that does have Hot Swap and a malfunction, then it's the device. I'd contact OWC on this, and see if they've a newer unit that does NOT use an Oxford chipset that you could exchange the current unit for, and perhaps cover any cost difference.

If you're stuck with it, you'll have to deal with the hassle or sell it off, and get one that will work. Up to you.

 

[Mattww]

Also, I've traded email with Mike at xlr8yourmac and he mentioned that his Voyager Q dock, connected to NT 6GB eSATA card in his '09 MP running 10.5.8, swaps fine without reboot.

I couldn't find this in Mike's review - If the Newertech card is driverless and supports hot swopping on the Newertech Voyager Q dock all whilst running the 64-bit kernel in Snow Leopard ('09 Mac Pro) that would make it worthwhile to me as it would speed up backups compared to using Firewire 800.

 

[nanofrog]

I couldn't find this in Mike's review - If the Newertech card is driverless and supports hot swopping on the Newertech Voyager Q dock all whilst running the 64-bit kernel in Snow Leopard ('09 Mac Pro) that would make it worthwhile to me as it would speed up backups compared to using Firewire 800.

As it uses the default SATA drivers in OS X, NO, it does NOT support Hot Swap on the Client edition, as it's not supported in Apple's included driver.

You'd need a 3rd party driver that does provide it. OS X Server OTOH, does have Hot Swap support included in the default SATA drivers.

Under Windows, you can get Hot Swap working, once you get AHCI mode enabled.

 

[sailmac]

But a single system that does have Hot Swap and a malfunction, then it's the device. I'd contact OWC on this, and see if they've a newer unit that does NOT use an Oxford chipset that you could exchange the current unit for

Yes, I hope to get it resolved with OWC quickly. Expecting to hear back from them tomorrow.

 

[sailmac]

I couldn't find this in Mike's review - If the Newertech card is driverless and supports hot swopping on the Newertech Voyager Q dock all whilst running the 64-bit kernel in Snow Leopard ('09 Mac Pro) that would make it worthwhile to me as it would speed up backups compared to using Firewire 800.

Mike and I were corresponding and he mentioned it in one of the emails. I dunno, maybe he'll add the information next time he updates the review. Heading into Friday he was hunkering down for the blizzard!

 

[Mattww]

I read this review:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MAXPower_eSATA_6G.html

Under the compatibility section it seems to suggest it does hot swap with the Voyager dock. I'm confused! What Nanofrog says about the different drivers in Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server make sense so in theory it shouldn't work.

 

[nanofrog]

I read this review:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MAXPower_eSATA_6G.html

Under the compatibility section it seems to suggest it does hot swap with the Voyager dock. I'm confused! What Nanofrog says about the different drivers in Snow Leopard and Snow Leopard Server make sense so in theory it shouldn't work.

He booted OS X in K64, so the SATA drivers may have been updated under that Kernel to support Hot Swap.

So we could be in a situation where:
K32 (Client edition of OS X) = NO Hot Swap support
K64 (Client or Server edition) = YES for Hot Swap support.

Assuming this is the case, that will be nice, as OS X is going K64 exclusively in the near future (10.7 or 10.8), which would mean Hot Swap is native OTB with OS X, and not reliant on 3rd party drivers (which are problematic with cards that require them, given the various posts from other users).

But owners of older MP's ('06 - '07) that only have EFI32 firmware will be left out. So only '08 and newer systems will benefit from this, as Apple's seems to have zero interest in updating those systems with EFI64 or sticking with K32 (so no software update is likely immenent either).

 

[sailmac]

I read this review:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MAXPower_eSATA_6G.html

Under the compatibility section it seems to suggest it does hot swap with the Voyager dock.

Just now read the review. The reviewer gives a *hands-on* account of the eSATA 6GB card doing exactly what you want -- running under 64-bit SL and playing nice with the Voyager Q. To quote

"I tested the 6G in my Mac Pro Nehalem booted into the 64-bit Snow Leopard kernel, and it ran perfectly."

I think your light is green