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heisenberg123
macrumors 603
agreed, dont waste you time trying to convice the free loaders of the world that think everything should be free
Who said anything about profit? I am talking about revenue.
You wanna portray it as cheap for $20, it's not, it's half a billion minimum revenue for apple with just half the user base upgrading. Freely and voluntarily of course...🙄 if they don't want their os to be as "great" as lion. Even ms had the decency after vista to offer some free upgrades to 7, as well as the numerous free service packs. But then again 7 was a whole new kernel optimization and brought the resources down to be faster than even xp.
So far the lions are $50 and both of them together are nothing to write home about. Mountain lion is an utter joke in terms of new features, lion was a joke in terms successfully implemented new features (and let's not even talk about bugs...), and both of them are a joke in terms of core os development. OS X is right now one of the LEAST advanced os's in the world. 🙂
In a year though apple will have made close to 2 billion of it, in revenue, when the combined cost of both of them should have been $0 to users, cause that's pretty much all they were worth for. 🙂
You wanna portray it as cheap for $20, it's not, it's half a billion minimum revenue for apple with just half the user base upgrading. Freely and voluntarily of course...🙄 if they don't want their os to be as "great" as lion. Even ms had the decency after vista to offer some free upgrades to 7, as well as the numerous free service packs. But then again 7 was a whole new kernel optimization and brought the resources down to be faster than even xp.
So far the lions are $50 and both of them together are nothing to write home about. Mountain lion is an utter joke in terms of new features, lion was a joke in terms successfully implemented new features (and let's not even talk about bugs...), and both of them are a joke in terms of core os development. OS X is right now one of the LEAST advanced os's in the world. 🙂
In a year though apple will have made close to 2 billion of it, in revenue, when the combined cost of both of them should have been $0 to users, cause that's pretty much all they were worth for. 🙂
heisenberg123
macrumors 603
why do you feel entitled to those features if the suck or not?
vista and windows 7 where $600 combined, and I didnt get any boners over any of those that XP didnt give me
rorschach
macrumors 68020
This will be my last post to the troll here.
Revenue is completely meaningless.
Yes, I do want to portray it as cheap. What does Mountain Lion cost to you, as a user? $20. Period. Are you paying "half a billion" for Mountain Lion? Is anyone? No.
Yep. Freely and voluntarily. I'm glad you understand the concept now.
But the vast majority of people are very happy with Lion. Why would Apple offer free upgrades? What possible reason would they have? If they had produced a crappy OS that most people were not satisfied with, then perhaps they might.
In your opinion. Others, like me, disagree. I'll happily "write home" about either or both of them.
Not as much of a joke as your posts are in terms of logic. 🙂
Tell me: are you willing to go spend a year working for free developing the next version of OS X? Because that's what you're asking the developers at Apple to do. 🙂
Revenue is completely meaningless.
Yes, I do want to portray it as cheap. What does Mountain Lion cost to you, as a user? $20. Period. Are you paying "half a billion" for Mountain Lion? Is anyone? No.
Yep. Freely and voluntarily. I'm glad you understand the concept now.
But the vast majority of people are very happy with Lion. Why would Apple offer free upgrades? What possible reason would they have? If they had produced a crappy OS that most people were not satisfied with, then perhaps they might.
In your opinion. Others, like me, disagree. I'll happily "write home" about either or both of them.
Not as much of a joke as your posts are in terms of logic. 🙂
Tell me: are you willing to go spend a year working for free developing the next version of OS X? Because that's what you're asking the developers at Apple to do. 🙂
Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
Precisely this. Having used Lion and Mountain Lion, I've actually used and enjoyed the majority of features they offer me over Snow Leopard and earlier OS X versions. I prefer Versions, Auto-Save, Resume, and other core refinements from Lion, and I also enjoy Notes, Reminders, and Notification Center from Mountain Lion. Blow 45 has zero right to tell me these two OS versions were crappy, worthless, or otherwise subpar. His usage will invariably be different from mine, but to say that because a feature doesn't appeal to him it becomes useless and crappy is ridiculous and very condescending.
Yeah it's odd. For iOS developers needing it for iOS 6, 4.5 is necessary. Yet for OS X development, 4.4 ML Xcode is necessary. As I'm both, I just stuck with 4.5 as it covers all bases although it'd make sense to simply offer one version for all Xcode development. 🙂
@rorschach
So what are you going to write home about them?
Hi guys, I am writing to tell you how excited I am that apple has come up with the most convoluted undo in computer history in versions, I also love the duplicate feature cause now I don't have to save as, I duplicate, wait for it, pops another window and then I save the file, resume pops back everything app so I am extra careful when I shut everything cause who knows what might pop back up, auto quit is great as the apps crash on their own at will now, I don't know how I 've lived without these features and that kernel task sure knows how to use that memory on my mac, why have it anyway if there's nothing to fill it up? Kernel task and safari leaks and you are good to go with 32gb of ram.
There's also a lot of fake linen too in the os, it's a pretty fabric for a lot of transitions, and ical and contacts look so real and touchable of course they can't be touched since they are on a mac, but to heck with that.
I just updated to 10.7.3 it's supposed to take care of a lot of bugs but it's crashed my system.
I am having lot's of "flashbacks" btw recently of our time together. Of course with my dear nanny os I feel warm and fuzzy too, did you know you can't undo or set user preferences for almost any of the features I mentioned?
Love. R.
p.s. damn, I almost forgot, icloud! It's a more limited in some ways mobileme but it's free, and of course mobileme users on snow leopard aren't getting icloud, that's only for lion (cause apple have got to sell lion somehow, give the user a bone to update)! Suckers!
Apple should invite you then for a tour at Cupertino, as ms had done for the zune guy. To be fair to apple I am sure they 'll find enough who did enjoy lion's new "features" to fit a small shuttle bus.
(it's a joke, uh? don't take it the wrong way. 🙂)
So what are you going to write home about them?
Hi guys, I am writing to tell you how excited I am that apple has come up with the most convoluted undo in computer history in versions, I also love the duplicate feature cause now I don't have to save as, I duplicate, wait for it, pops another window and then I save the file, resume pops back everything app so I am extra careful when I shut everything cause who knows what might pop back up, auto quit is great as the apps crash on their own at will now, I don't know how I 've lived without these features and that kernel task sure knows how to use that memory on my mac, why have it anyway if there's nothing to fill it up? Kernel task and safari leaks and you are good to go with 32gb of ram.
There's also a lot of fake linen too in the os, it's a pretty fabric for a lot of transitions, and ical and contacts look so real and touchable of course they can't be touched since they are on a mac, but to heck with that.
I just updated to 10.7.3 it's supposed to take care of a lot of bugs but it's crashed my system.
I am having lot's of "flashbacks" btw recently of our time together. Of course with my dear nanny os I feel warm and fuzzy too, did you know you can't undo or set user preferences for almost any of the features I mentioned?
Love. R.
p.s. damn, I almost forgot, icloud! It's a more limited in some ways mobileme but it's free, and of course mobileme users on snow leopard aren't getting icloud, that's only for lion (cause apple have got to sell lion somehow, give the user a bone to update)! Suckers!
Apple should invite you then for a tour at Cupertino, as ms had done for the zune guy. To be fair to apple I am sure they 'll find enough who did enjoy lion's new "features" to fit a small shuttle bus.
(it's a joke, uh? don't take it the wrong way. 🙂)
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Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
Aaaaand thank you for confirming your troll status. Both rorschach and I crafted complete responses that didn't attack you and adequately justified our opinions, and then you decide to attack and belittle.
no one was personally attacked, it's the interwebs, it's a joke, have some humour, everything doesn't have to be so serious. I actually had a lot of fun writing that mock write home letter. 🙂
As for justifying my opinions, I thought I already did? You know this back and forth of arguments can drag on and on non stop. If I feel I have sufficiently covered my ground arguying about it, there's not much else I can add, is there?
blow45, if you don't like OSX 10.8 you can buy a netbook at Walmart with the worlds most advanced operating system on it for the cost of that bag of recycled aluminum cans you pulled out of an apartment dumpster. This OS, known as Winblow.., I mean Windows, having the unabashed quality of being utterly advanced, automatically updates your computer with "Flame" spyware, utterly and totally free of charge, thereby enabling remote monitoring of you and your computer. Sure, you have no idea who is monitoring you, but if you're lucky they won't be perverts, murderers, and/or identity thieves. Nor will video of you fapping to Steve Ballmer's "Surface" keynote while quietly chanting "use me like you use surface" mysteriously make it's way to youtube... if you're lucky.
that surface though sure looks good doesn't it? Live tiles and all. I remember apple is bringing auto updating widgets to ios, last time I looked though the ipad looked like an oversized phone os. They are probably gonna be coming with ios 6 I guess...😉
As for windows 8, just install them on your mac, especially a 3+ years old mac and enjoy the blazing speed. 🙂 And if your spanking new retina macbook pro stutters or lags, windows 7 (and soon 8) are your best buddies, no reported lags there. Enjoy!
And since I said microsoft, you know how much windows 8 costs to anyone having bought a pc within the last few months, $14. That's right $14 for a really new os not a service pack, one that doesn't actually tout reminders and notes apps as new features but core os coding to make your machine faster and more future proof. Redmond is the new Cupertino!
As for windows 8, just install them on your mac, especially a 3+ years old mac and enjoy the blazing speed. 🙂 And if your spanking new retina macbook pro stutters or lags, windows 7 (and soon 8) are your best buddies, no reported lags there. Enjoy!
And since I said microsoft, you know how much windows 8 costs to anyone having bought a pc within the last few months, $14. That's right $14 for a really new os not a service pack, one that doesn't actually tout reminders and notes apps as new features but core os coding to make your machine faster and more future proof. Redmond is the new Cupertino!
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I hear that everything in Redmond costs a fortune because of all the millionaires who retired from MS. It must be nice knowing you paid all that money to them so they could live such lovely lives that it altered the economy of an entire city. I know that when WinXP blue screened and damaged my HDD I was thinking, thank god for all those rich MS employees in Redmond, they sure do such wonderful things for the world...
I 've sadly paid my fair share to these bunch of crooks, little did I know though ten years ago when an innocent looking apple toting computer joined my daily life how much I 'd be paying to the others...🙂
You're referring to the $19.99? Or are you personally shouldering the 1 billion dollars you think Apple is going to make off ML?
Blow45, I think you are exaggerating here.
Don't like versions? Don't use it.
Don't like duplicate? Don't use it. Save As has been restored in ML.
Don't like Resume? Don't use it. ML has a new option to automatically close all windows before quitting an app.
Never had this problem. My guess is you are using poorly program Apps, blame the developers.
I made do just fine with 4gb of RAM on Lion and it was always very fast and never gave me problems. That was plenty for an any average user. I'm now on a system with 8gb of RAM on ML and have no issues whatsoever, I'm typically only using up about 4.5gb of RAM. So again, the 32gb is pure exaggeration.
Fine, I can understand you don't like the look. Not everyone shares your aesthetic taste though. I find Apple's taste quite good.
Incorrect.
Don't like versions? Don't use it.
Don't like duplicate? Don't use it. Save As has been restored in ML.
Don't like Resume? Don't use it. ML has a new option to automatically close all windows before quitting an app.
Never had this problem. My guess is you are using poorly program Apps, blame the developers.
I made do just fine with 4gb of RAM on Lion and it was always very fast and never gave me problems. That was plenty for an any average user. I'm now on a system with 8gb of RAM on ML and have no issues whatsoever, I'm typically only using up about 4.5gb of RAM. So again, the 32gb is pure exaggeration.
Fine, I can understand you don't like the look. Not everyone shares your aesthetic taste though. I find Apple's taste quite good.
Incorrect.
John, some of these points make sense and are well taken, I have to point out however that in a way the validate my larger theme here, that lion implemented a lot of very dubious "features" that have been reverted, or rather have come as close as apple's ego will allow a revert, which is to offer an option for the a different way to do things. Users have been asked to pay again for these ui fixes. Some users, myself included, cannot run ml at all in several of their macs because apple is obsoleting devices that they don't have to obsolete.
I wish I could have snow leopard with a few of lion's good features, whatever these are, and nothing comes immediately to mind, well icloud instead of the defunct mm I had in sl, maybe the new filevault, there could be a couple more I am missing... and have a faster more reliable system.
At the stage apple has put me in I am arguably paying on some macs for bug fixes and enhancements (wiki definition for a service pack), on an os update that again falls miserably short of doing any real backbone work (kernel is one behind ios) or adding any new features. We 've come to the extent where pinch to zoom in text edit, is included as a new feature, along with a notes app, chinese support (who the eff cares anyway if you are not chinese? Are the going to be touting every language they add from now on as an os feature) etc etc. in a list on apple's site that you read through in a few secs, and you go ho hum, nothing there pretty much.
And in some of my macs I am stuck with lion or a downgrade (there's no question which option I ll chose of course).
All that doesn't really make me a happy camper, all the more so, when I see redmond has put a lot of effort in core work in their os to make it even faster than windows 7.
I just feel that the world's most advanced os is currently a joke, with obj. c, an archaic kernel, an old file system, and a bunch of slap on features from ios. It keeps some of it's former glory in some prior ui and automation choices, but it's not getting any better. On the other hand the hardware apple uses is getting insanely better all the time. But what about the software?
That's why I said $50 isn't cheap, and a bilion and a half returns to apple (just by half the user base upgrading, surely more will) are simply not warranted for their efforts, imho. I went as far as to say $0 would have been a better price here (aren't ios updates free anyway?). I take that back, $20 for both lions would have been a fair price, provided lion was fast and bug free, which of course it wasn't.
All that doesn't really make a happy camper, you know.
Next time apple release a software, fast fire release cycles notwithstanding, I 'd rather they charged me $100 instead and gave me something that really was worthwhile, hell I wouldn't have a problem paying $200 if the os warranted it. But I do have a problem paying an extra $20 on bug fixes and enchancements and damn twitter, I do have a problem that half of my macs are stuck in lion cause apple said so. 🙂
I wish I could have snow leopard with a few of lion's good features, whatever these are, and nothing comes immediately to mind, well icloud instead of the defunct mm I had in sl, maybe the new filevault, there could be a couple more I am missing... and have a faster more reliable system.
At the stage apple has put me in I am arguably paying on some macs for bug fixes and enhancements (wiki definition for a service pack), on an os update that again falls miserably short of doing any real backbone work (kernel is one behind ios) or adding any new features. We 've come to the extent where pinch to zoom in text edit, is included as a new feature, along with a notes app, chinese support (who the eff cares anyway if you are not chinese? Are the going to be touting every language they add from now on as an os feature) etc etc. in a list on apple's site that you read through in a few secs, and you go ho hum, nothing there pretty much.
And in some of my macs I am stuck with lion or a downgrade (there's no question which option I ll chose of course).
All that doesn't really make me a happy camper, all the more so, when I see redmond has put a lot of effort in core work in their os to make it even faster than windows 7.
I just feel that the world's most advanced os is currently a joke, with obj. c, an archaic kernel, an old file system, and a bunch of slap on features from ios. It keeps some of it's former glory in some prior ui and automation choices, but it's not getting any better. On the other hand the hardware apple uses is getting insanely better all the time. But what about the software?
That's why I said $50 isn't cheap, and a bilion and a half returns to apple (just by half the user base upgrading, surely more will) are simply not warranted for their efforts, imho. I went as far as to say $0 would have been a better price here (aren't ios updates free anyway?). I take that back, $20 for both lions would have been a fair price, provided lion was fast and bug free, which of course it wasn't.
All that doesn't really make a happy camper, you know.
Next time apple release a software, fast fire release cycles notwithstanding, I 'd rather they charged me $100 instead and gave me something that really was worthwhile, hell I wouldn't have a problem paying $200 if the os warranted it. But I do have a problem paying an extra $20 on bug fixes and enchancements and damn twitter, I do have a problem that half of my macs are stuck in lion cause apple said so. 🙂
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Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
You seriously lose any credibility and show the true troll nature of your posts the second you attempt to call it a service pack.
well it is isn't it? According to wiki it's "A service pack (in short SP) is a collection of updates, fixes or enhancements to a software program delivered in the form of a single installable package. "
Isn't ml about updates, bug fixes and enhancements? Or is it about completely new features?
Let's see new features: airplay. period. (do you really want me to count in notes taking a divorce from mail and reminders taking a divorce from ical? how about facebook and twitter, or the messaging app and notifications?)
Let's see about enhancements and bug fixes: mission control, autosave options, restoring save as, all sorts of minor ui tweaks (the much touted pinch to zoom in text edit...🙄), bug fixes and enhancements to safari (maybe finally it won't leak as much), bug fixes to ical (calendar), hopefully some bug fixes for the few tens of threads on particular bugs in apple's support forum (fingers crossed although from what I read it doesn't seem like it a 2.0 version of their smb protocol that actually works). GATEKEEPER, some of you might put that down as a feature, but let me remind you that it's exactly what ms did in their service packs, brought on new additional security measures.
I honestly do think and I am not trolling anyone here, that this is a service pack. I know it's tough to hear this for some of you guys, but I can't change my assessment of it because of that. 🙂 It's a service pack to lion, rushed and presented out of the blue, to put lion behind them. Of course apple being apple would never admit they were issuing a service pack, so they just added a couple of mickey mouse ios like (how unexpected...) apps and functionalities, added airplay to ship a few more atvs too, and did their fixes and enhancements for lion. They didn't even manage to update it on par to the darwin kernel that ios has...
Actually I can't think of any way of how this isn't a service pack.
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eagandale4114
macrumors 65816
How much is apple charging users who have bought a mac recently for mountain lion?
Nothing.
Agreed, this is disappointing, but as I mentioned in another thread, I think overall it was better to release Lion, as it was, incomplete, than to have waited for the more refined and polished Mountain Lion. At the end of the day, 50$ is a good bargain for the combo. As for the hardware being obsolete, that would have applied anyway if they only released one version of Lion this year, so again it's a bonus to have release Lion and Mountain Lion separately. Some people thought Lion a nice upgrade from Snow Leopard.
Right, and that's fine from the consumer's point of view, but it isn't a realistic expectation of a for-profit company. Could they offer more for free? Certainly. Is it a big deal that they do not, when they price their OS so cheaply? I don't think so.
Well this is very debatable. All the new iCloud integration, Notes, Reminders, Messages, Notification Center, that's all very nice stuff, for a significant portion of us. PowerNap? Brilliant. Airplay Mirroring, unprecedented. Retina displays and their scaling operations, that's some deep backbone stuff right there. Yes they released it for Lion, but that was a provisional release. We all know Lion wasn't truly capable of handling the HiDPI mode. It's really designed with Mountain Lion in mind. Again, that might not be your cup of tea, but even Andantech thinks it took some very ingenious work to get the OS to be able to handle it as well as it does. Dictation? Very nice. Should all this have been part of Lion? Yes, but then there is no way Lion would have released 2 years after Snow Leopard. So again we're back to my first point, the new release cycle is much more desirable. Many will claim each one is simply a service pack, and in some sense that's right, but when you start to look at the progression over the typical development cycles, you'll notice a heck of a lot is happening.
To limit ML to simply that is to miss the total-package and it's experience. Don't try and look at this piece-meal, i.e. how much more does this give over Lion. Ask yourself, how much more can I do now than I could 3 years ago?
Oh the irony! People are deriding OS X for becoming more iOSified, and yet they compare it to Windows 8 that is being designed for PC+ computing, where according to Microsoft's most recent claims is the stage of computing where tablets and computers have fused. Apple's public claims? Let's keep these separate but allow them to influence each other.
It's on a yearly release cycle. Who's to say they aren't going to employ a tick-tock, tick-tick-tock model where you get the deep level revisions you are looking for down the line? ML was designed in one year. For the changes you are seeking, I'd think a more reasonable time frame would be for next summer or the one following. Honestly, ML, even if archaic in some places, is still a very performing environment.
50$ isn't cheap, and they make a truckload of money. But you are missing the point here. How much is Microsoft charging, and what do their returns look like? Yet when you applaud them, you don't mention that, why? That strikes me as somewhat inconsistent.
I know, and I'm trying to show sympathy where I think it is warranted. I find this conversation interesting, so hopefully you won't take my replies as an attempt to sell you on ML and Apple's direction. I'm just trying to share my perspective so that we may mutually influence each other, and to ask for further explanation where I'm not sure I understand the criticism, which is also why I explain how I see the issue.
Fair enough, but surely you realize there are tons of people like me who are very happy with ML since it meets our needs. We aren't fully informed and don't really care about the backbone and kernel tasks. We don't care about memory management and file structures. All I care about is this: Does this computer help me effectively produce my work? Do I enjoy working with this machine? Is it reliable? Is it fast? And so far, if I answer honestly, all those needs are more than met. The fact that this release integrates all my devices to seamlessly work together is phenomenal. I didn't buy those devices to be toys, but because they actually enhanced my work environment, so I rather have an update, sooner rather than later, that makes everything work together rather than wait for the deeper changes. 20$ sounds like the right price for giving me that extra facility.
yeah but a, ms's timeframe has been much wider, and b. 8 is a new os with much much progress over and under the hood over a long time of development, mountain lion is notes, twitter, airplay and growl, and game center. I don't think there's any comparison there. Maybe combined the two lions can be compared to windows 8, although they 'd still fall short I guess.