12inch and 17inch Powerbooks Released

[G4scott]

I like the idea of the midrange enhancing speaker on the 12" PowerBook G4, but looking at the pictures, I'm wondering, where are the normal speakers? Are they were the iBook's speakers are, or are they on the back panel of the laptop, kinda reflecting the sound off the bottom of the screen panel? I saw some holes looking like those might be them, but I wasn't too sure. I just can't wait to get my hands on one...

I'm looking to replace my 12" iBook (600mhz, combo) with a 12" PowerBook, but I'm going to wait a while... Hopefully I'll know more about these wonderful machines.

 

[Mr Kyle]

Memory on 17 inch

anyone else notice that the 17 inch has pc 2700 as oppose to the pc 2100 that apple has been using

 

[jaguarx]

Yup, i can't wait to get my hands on one of those 17" =)
Pity about 7-10 week wait!!!!!!

 

[dguisinger]

Re: Re: MWNY 2003

Originally posted by lmalave


Too soon I think for the 970. G4s are supposed to go up to 1.8GHz by that time, though, so maybe we'll see 1.4GHz and higher G4s. IBM has delivered early before, though, so who knows?

I'm not so sure about that. IBM has revised saying early Q3...which is right in time for MWNY announcement, shipping within a months time, which is standard for Apple.

However, after looking at SPECint and SPECfp marks and IBM's 970 pdf, I will have to revise my previous post and say they will still be dual. I took some time to do some calculations for processor efficency with IBM's and Intel's benchmarks.

970 @ 1.8GHz
SPECint2000 - 937
SPECfp2000 - 1051

P4-HT @ 3.06GHz
SPECint2000 - 1099
SPECfp2000 - 1077


SPECxxx2000 rating per clock cycle
970 @ 1.8GHz P4 @ 3.06GHz
int 0.52 0.36
fp 0.58 0.35

The efficiency of the P4 even with HyperThreading really sucks compared to the 970. Look at the FP gap. I would think to 95% of the people here, the integer operations at this speed are completely worthless....most operations for scientific or compression or rendering are all floating point now days, its funny Intel still seems to favor their ALU over the FPU.

Obviously though, we have a problem. Intel will be at 3.5GHz atleast by the time the 970 comes out....not only is that a marketing delema, but the added performance will drag the 970 through the mud if used as a single processor, so dual systems will probably be standard across all Pro towers. Assuming the efficiency stays the same, the P4 @ 3.5GHz would be 1260int/1225fp. However that means you only need 1 1/3 970's to catch up in performance.......meaning a dual machine will smoke a P4.

If IBM surprises everyone and launches with a 2.0GHz while Intel is at 3.5...lets see what there numbers would be: 1040int/1160fp. To match a 3.5GHz P4 processor in theoretical performance, a single 970 would have to run at 2.43 GHz. Unfortunately I do not see that happening at launch........which means we will remain behind.

As long as we remain behind in speed, price will not come down, as dual processors will be required to outpreform the x86 equipment.

 

[Gelfin]

Re: Memory on 17 inch

Originally posted by Mr Kyle
anyone else notice that the 17 inch has pc 2700 as oppose to the pc 2100 that apple has been using

Well, yeah, of course. PC2100 is the "right" speed for DDR266, and PC2700 is the "right" speed for DDR333.

I'm finally taking the day off to go to MWSF tomorrow, with my primary goal being to play with a 17". I was thinking maybe it was too big, but then a friend pointed out that I walk around with sketch pads that size all the time. I think I'm going to wind up needing one, but I won't know for sure until I get some hands-on time with it. It's a fantastic solution. Means I get a better desktop machine than the 17" iMac I was considering, and a MAJOR upgrade to my existing PB667. I was afraid Steve was going to leave me on the horns of a dilemma this year, but instead I think he greatly simplified my next Mac purchase decision.

 

[pnz999]

Anyone actually seen the new PB in person.

Thats it get Hot? maybe compare to the 15" Ti or the iBook?

 

[t^3]

Anybody know if these PB's have the new G4 (7457) that actually takes advantage of the DDR RAM, unlike the current PowerMacs?

During my research, I found a site that has some closeups of both new models, including some with Apple System Profiler on:

http://www.macitynet.it/immagini/visitaconnoi/mwsf2003/powerbook17/
http://www.macitynet.it/immagini/visitaconnoi/mwsf2003/powerbook12/

Interestingly, the 17" model is running a build of 10.2.4 (6J11), while the 12" runs a build of 10.2.3 (6H28).

 

[gooddog]

Re: Re: 15" updated soon?

Originally posted by MUrhino


I think you're right on target here. I was comparing an iBook to a TiBook at my Bookstore and I did notice a difference between the two. The iBook was brighter, but not by much. The resolutions both looked equal though. One reason for the brightness is most likely the space behind the screen. The iBook has more space for the inner-components of the actual screen as opposed to the TiBook. With the new line being even thinner I think we can expect it to be about the same as the old TiBooks.

********************************

You're right ---

But SJ said as much about the 17" PowerBook in his Keynote:

the same LCD was given a "slimmer" backlight
--- I figured it would be slimmer in power as well to not kill the batt too soon.


----

At first I was excited about the Mini Al --- then
I remembered that the 12" iBook is more ruggedized than the Powerooks.

And, since the 800 MHz G3 iBook is more than fast enough for anything I might do at the school where I teach --- I did an unexpected thing _ bought the 800 iBook instead.

Now I have a 15" 800MHz/1Gig/ iMac for
LightWave 3D / FCP / Photoshop etc. work

and the little iBook 800 with 384 MB RAM for
teacher stuff. My school is so backward I won't be allowed to use any wireless for the foreseeable future anyway.

===========================

I wonder what the target market will be for the
Mini Al ???????

Seems 2 me that,

SMALLNESS > HIGH MOBILITY > NEEDS TO BE RUGGED (it isn't?) ALSO - NEEDS ADC PORT EVEN MORE SO FOR AT-HOME 23" JOY

AND CONVERSELY,

G4 POWER > VIDEO WORK (but ...tiny screen??? )

I hope it doesn't go the way of the Cube !!!


Any ideas on this ?????

---gooddog

 

[NitroPye]

Ruggedized?

I would think with the new base material and more compact design the 12" AlBooks would be more ruggadized then the 15" TiBooks I dont know about the comparison between the 12" ibook and the 12" AlBooks though

 

[Dave K]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Is anyone else dissapointed that the 12.1" G4 powerbook doesn't include 64mb vram or firewire 800? How much more room would an extra 32mb of memory take up in the notebook?

A quick look at the Sony, IBM, and Toshiba product reveals that it appears to be the only machine in it's market segment using a full bore graphics chipset. What I can see of the others shows that they are all using either integrated shared memory or tiny 8mb ATI Rage quality solutions.

Read into that whatever you want.

Another thing to note is that all of the 12.1 solutions I've seen above, except the IBM, max out at 512 MB of system memory. But, while the IBM solutions will take up to 1 GB and are ~1 lb lighter, they also start at the same price as the SuperDrive equiped 12.1 without an optical drive to speak of and half the memory/hard disk space...

Which makes the 12.1 SuperDrive extremely competitive in terms of price/features in it's market segment IMO, given that only Sony has models that list cheaper and they only offer an external device for DVD burning which brings the total MSRP of the device up above $2k...

 

[psxndc]

Re: Re: Re: 15" updated soon?

Originally posted by gooddog
I wonder what the target market will be for the
Mini Al ???????

Easy: Me. Someone that is, like someone else mentioned, a "ProSumer". I'm a software engineer and I need to have a lot of things running at the same time (especially if I'm doing .NET work in Virtual PC). I need the power of a G4 in my laptop, but....

I love my iBook 700. I love the size (12" isn't bad screen-wise when you use Virtual Desktop), the heft, just about everything. But it _is_ a little slow. I'd _love_ it if I had a G4 iBook especially if it had a SuperDrive.

I am disappointed that the 12" doesn't have the same ports as the 17", but realistically, I haven't used my existing Firewire port at all (I'm still waiting on Audio In in the iPod, Apple) so I don't really need FW800 or the gigbit ethernet. When I'm ready to upgrade in a year or two hopefully the mini Als will have 64MB vram, but other than that, it's pretty darn perfect for existing iBookers that want more power for only $2k.

-p

 

[DHagan4755]

Maybe

Perhaps the speakers are under the keyboard? I don't see them in the photos either

 

[ryan]

Originally posted by NHMac
...
You gotta asumme that the 15"Ti model will be standardized to the Al form factor/maufacturing process in the next 6 months. Wonder if they will trickle down the keyboard technology? Found in Big Al? Does not sound unreasonable.

I could care less about the lighted keyboard but the faster bus, AE, DDR and Bluetooth would be nice additions to the TiPB. I was all ready to buy a 1GHz TiPB but I thought I would hold off until after Macworld, "just in case" and now I'm glad I did.

 

[Dave K]

Re: Maybe

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Perhaps the speakers are under the keyboard? I don't see them in the photos either

Accorinding to the editors over at MacWorld who've seen them, the speakers are in the slots towards the back and are designed to reflect the sound forward off the LCD...

 

[iShater]

Re: Re: Re: MWNY 2003

Originally posted by dguisinger

However, after looking at SPECint and SPECfp marks and IBM's 970 pdf, I will have to revise my previous post and say they will still be dual. I took some time to do some calculations for processor efficency with IBM's and Intel's benchmarks.

I am not sure they will really need duals across the board. The entry level and mid range PMs will probably stay as single processor machines, they might be slightly behind in performance, but the added cost of making them dual will be keep them expensive. Now, for the top of the line machine, they can go dual, charge a premium, have a huge profit margin, and smoke the P4 machines.

However, Apple needs to prod ATI and nVidia to start releasing some of their PRO graphic cards for the mac. All these machines that we see here are the consumer ones, I am sure there is a reason those companies make professional graphics cards!

 

[dorleac]

Questions about new PB17/12 design

Questions about new PB17/12 design

Okay, somehow I knew this was coming. Everyone told me in November that there wouldn't be another upgrade for a long time, but I held out.

Now I am wondering...

I remember reading speculation in the past about two issues/features that might be resolved/introduced in a Powerbook redesign. Since we have the new AlumiBook, perhaps this stuff is here or coming soon...

(Please forgive me if I either misinterpreted or misunderstood the rumors or if these issues were already resolved. I don't currently own a Powerbook, but have been waiting patiently for the right moment to buy.)

1) Employment of a Mac patent on a new heat-dispersement design for laptops with different placement of heat sinks, different metals used internally, etc. to aid in better cooling of the machine.

2) Variable bus timing where the machine would use power according to how many apps, what screen brightness settings were being used, etc. thereby saving battery life.

Anyone know if these things were included in the design of the new PB(s) or if they're still coming?

Please keep me posted if you hear anything.
Thanks.

 

[Dave K]

Re: Re: Re: Re: MWNY 2003

Originally posted by iShater


However, Apple needs to prod ATI and nVidia to start releasing some of their PRO graphic cards for the mac. All these machines that we see here are the consumer ones, I am sure there is a reason those companies make professional graphics cards!

The main problem here is that the major difference between the pro and consumer cards is that the drivers for those cards are certified for each software package (Maya, Lightwave, etc), they run and are tuned for visual quality and accuracy over performance.

Getting those certifications and doing that tweaking costs lots of money and that's why they cost a fortune compared to other cards. This makes whether or not these cards get ported to the Mac much more of a case of Mac users showing demand to use them with those products than anything Apple can do.

I do seem to recall 3DLabs making whispers in this direction at one point though...

 

[Huked on Fonick]

New 12 Inch Ibook

I just ordered a new 12 inch ibook, i was orignally going to get the 12 inch alubook but my ibook with 640 ram, airport card, printer, 3 year warenty cost me 1680.

I compared what i god and prices and ibook is alot better deal.

Value over whats in IBOOK

Airport Extreme- Have airport at my School just spent a fortune putting in 802.11a/b network they are not gona upgrade. Value: -25 (difference of Price between airport and airport extreme)

Bluetooth this is a Plus but i could all ways get an adapter and i dont have anything bluebooth my phone is a Motorola t720i its not bluetooth and my printer is USB i would put its value at $50 price of adapter

G4---No L3 Ibook has twice the size of L2. Value maybe 10.... Most of my apps arnt Altivec enhanced except OS X and Photoshop.... and there allready fast enough on my 600ibook with 640 ram

DDR ram: Its Fake FSB is still 133 and lack of L3 kinda of sets its value. Value 50 bucks

60 Gig Hard Drive Now thats nice but its not Rubber sock Mounted like the Ibooks, it cost 47 more than the regular 40 gig, and its a 2.5 inch drive Value: 80 Bucks.

Video Card: True is has DDR Ram but there both 32 megs and on a AGP2x Bus it wont make much difference not to mention i think the 7500 is a better chipset it lots of ways. Value: 50 Bucks

Case: Its Pretty Value 10 Bucks

Duel Monitor Suppot: You can Hack Ibook to do this. Value O

.3 pounds lighter- The extra weight of the ibook is going to break my back......... maybe apple needs to invest in a new scale.. Value 0

Slight smaller Speca all under .5 of an inch.. Value-0 icant even find a case small enough for my ibook and the smaller size is that big of a deal. Value 0

Line in... Would Never Use it cant u get the same things in through a usb addapter or USB.- Value 10 bucks

Shipping 2-3+ weeks but 3-5 days transit time.Value -50

Total Extra Value $185

Ibook G3 800 512 L2 cache 640 megs of ram, Airport, Printer, 30 gig Hard Drive, 3 year warinty- Price 1684 (throug Macmall Standard Ground Shipping)

Alubook G4 867 256 L2 cache 640 megs or ram, Airport Extreme, 60 gig Hard Drive, Printer, 3 year Warinty- Price $2,414.00 +245(tax) = 2659 (through Apple EDU Store Standard Ground Shipping)

Difference 2659-1684=975!!! $975.. you could by a CD-ROM only ibook for that 2 computers for the price of one!

Total extra value i see not more than $250 but somehwre around $175 what it cost extra=975!! thats a difference of $690 over what i would pay and what it cost.!! NO WAY!

I could by like a new snowboard and Boots and a ipod and and and for that!!

IF it had L3 i would probably Get it....

-pat

Edit Changed format made post shorter

 

[G4scott]

Does anybody know what they keys on the keyboard are made out of? Are they plastic or what? Jobs said that the keyboard was their most durable to date.

Oooh, I can't wait to get my hands on one...

 

[pnz999]

Jobs said: This is the year of the notebook for Apple!


Do you think Apple will revamp all of its notebooks.. iBooks to PB!

 

[User X]

Has anyone checked out the education price for these things.....$300 off the entire line!!!!! Now that is a sweet deal. I wonder if I can convince the wife that this is a necessity?

 

[Huked on Fonick]

Originally posted by User X
Has anyone checked out the education price for these things.....$300 off the entire line!!!!! Now that is a sweet deal. I wonder if I can convince the wife that this is a necessity?

Uh where you getting that??

12 inch 100 off
12 inch with superdrive 110 off
15 inch combo 100 off
15 inch super drive 150 off
17 inch 150 off... i dont see 300 there???

ADC?? but thats trickey and u only get 1 purchace a lifetime and u gona prove that your takeing a development corse....??

ADC PRICES

12 inch 360 off
12 inch with superdrive 400 off
15 inch combo 460 off
15 inch super drive 560 off
17 inch 660 off...

Humm thats more than 300?? are u talking about ADC prices??? cuz thats a little more than the education store and i think apple checks up on ADC orders oh yea add 100 to those orders cuz u gota by the ADC Plan- student ADC=99 dollars...

Edit- Added ADC Prices

 

[NitroPye]

Re: New 12 Inch Ibook

Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
I just ordered a new 12 inch ibook, i was orignally going to get the 12 inch alubook but my ibook with 640 ram, airport card, printer, 3 year warenty cost me 1680.

I compared what i god and prices and ibook is alot better deal.

Value over whats in IBOOK

Airport Extreme- Have airport at my School just spent a fortune putting in 802.11a/b network they are not gona upgrade. Value: -25 (difference of Price between airport and airport extreme)

Bluetooth this is a Plus but i could all ways get an adapter and i dont have anything bluebooth my phone is a Motorola t720i its not bluetooth and my printer is USB i would put its value at $50 price of adapter

G4---No L3 Ibook has twice the size of L2. Value maybe 10.... Most of my apps arnt Altivec enhanced except OS X and Photoshop.... and there allready fast enough on my 600ibook with 640 ram

DDR ram: Its Fake FSB is still 133 and lack of L3 kinda of sets its value. Value 50 bucks

60 Gig Hard Drive Now thats nice but its not Rubber sock Mounted like the Ibooks, it cost 47 more than the regular 40 gig, and its a 2.5 inch drive Value: 80 Bucks.

Video Card: True is has DDR Ram but there both 32 megs and on a AGP2x Bus it wont make much difference not to mention i think the 7500 is a better chipset it lots of ways. Value: 50 Bucks

Case: Its Pretty Value 10 Bucks

Duel Monitor Suppot: You can Hack Ibook to do this. Value O

.3 pounds lighter- The extra weight of the ibook is going to break my back......... maybe apple needs to invest in a new scale.. Value 0

Slight smaller Speca all under .5 of an inch.. Value-0 icant even find a case small enough for my ibook and the smaller size is that big of a deal. Value 0

Line in... Would Never Use it cant u get the same things in through a usb addapter or USB.- Value 10 bucks

Shipping 2-3+ weeks but 3-5 days transit time.Value -50

Total Extra Value $185

Ibook G3 800 512 L2 cache 640 megs of ram, Airport, Printer, 30 gig Hard Drive, 3 year warinty- Price 1684 (throug Macmall Standard Ground Shipping)

Alubook G4 867 256 L2 cache 640 megs or ram, Airport Extreme, 60 gig Hard Drive, Printer, 3 year Warinty- Price $2,414.00 +245(tax) = 2659 (through Apple EDU Store Standard Ground Shipping)

Difference 2659-1684=975!!! $975.. you could by a CD-ROM only ibook for that 2 computers for the price of one!

Total extra value i see not more than $250 but somehwre around $175 what it cost extra=975!! thats a difference of $690 over what i would pay and what it cost.!! NO WAY!

I could by like a new snowboard and Boots and a ipod and and and for that!!

IF it had L3 i would probably Get it....

-pat

Edit Changed format made post shorter

Well maybe you got a better deal for what you use it for but for the bang for the buck its indisputable the AlBook is a better deal. And the price you quoted for the Albook is out of wack assuming you got the printer at macmall for free with the ibook. Plus their is no tax online im pretty sure unless your in a specific state (correct me if I am wrong)

 

[blueBomber]

12" alubook

I'm still betting that "prosumer" like me who gets involved in moderate to heavy photoshop work will benefit from the g4 rather than the g3 of the ibook, even with half of the L2 cache, it's still a g4

 

[blueBomber]

at least thats what I'm hoping, considering I passed on the ibook for this thing

For the little extras that I got for going with the new 12" powerbook, ie:

- 60 gig hd
-faster cdrw (didn't get the super)
-integrated bluetooth (no use yet, but it's there)
-airport extreme upgradability
-far more durable enclosure
-faster (yes it is) video
-here's the biggie, multi-monitor spanning using the vga adapter.
-it only cost $300 dollars more for, what seems to me, a superior featured product

considering this is my first mac coming over from windows, this seemed like the best deal for me. It's a very powerful portable, yet can still function as a very fast desktop at home. Considering I'm coming from a 1600+ athlon xp with 384 megs of ram, the ibook just seemed to slow for my first foray into the world of macs. From everything I've read, if you have the option of using a G4 to run osX, do it, the G3 is usually just too slow for alot of things.