Yeah thats correct, but it seems like the 15” throttles a bit more. Since Intel now pulled the Power Gadget i have a little doubt about the accuracy. What i can tell is that the 15” is quicker in day to day tasks like browsing, mailing and Office stuff. Not by a large margin but noticable.
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13" Base and 15" Base model available for testing
- Thread starter dof250
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I have this issue!I'm just an idiot and get all the new Apple stuf when it comes out.
Throttles more, but even then runs 6 cores or up to 50% more throughput, regardless of clock speed.
Okay wow... This is crazy man... I just ran this test on my 15" with the CPU locked with Volta to 45Watt and there is a massive speed increase. Its now done in under 2 minutes and the CPU cores run pretty steadily at 2.9Ghz!
Now I'm sure Apple is going to fix this. They just need to lock the usage after some time to get this right. I will now try my 13" model with the same settings.
EDIT: The 13" is done now and also sees more stable speeds, but not the massive speed increase like the 15".
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The keys do all sound the same. Only the spacebar is maybe a little bit "louder" because its bigger, but also maybe because I'm hitting it harder
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Its updated now
I really cannot thank you enough for your time. I am very appreciative as I am strongly considering purchasing one of these machines as a 3d artist. Right now I am trying to determine storage solutions.
The keys do all sound the same. Only the spacebar is maybe a little bit "louder" because its bigger, but also maybe because I'm hitting it harder
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Its updated now
Thanks!
If you had a gun to your head and had to choose one of the two, which one would you keep?
The keys do all sound the same. Only the spacebar is maybe a little bit "louder" because its bigger, but also maybe because I'm hitting it harder
[doublepost=1532200369][/doublepost]
Its updated now
Thanks. With mine (15" 2018 2.6GHz i7) the backspace key sounds very clicky. In fact all the larger keys are louder than the smaller keys, but the backspace key is particularly different sounding.
No problem! Its a difficult choice. Having both of the machines shows that both have advantages and disadvantages.
Below my thoughts about why I would keep one or the other for now:
Would keep the 13" for:
- Better looking (this is personal preference but to me the 13" is just sexier)
- Much more portable and usable on couch (its just much easier to run around with)
- Performance is now very good with its quad core
Would keep the 15" for:
- Better speakers (the 13" are also massively improved since last year, but the 15" have a tad better mids and bass)
- Even more powerful than the 13" (even noticeable in day to day tasks that don't tax the CPU to the max)
- Bigger screen (this is a pro for me as I'm mostly using my MacBook at a desk all day without second screen.)
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That weird... There is absolutely not such big difference for me. Would get that checked at an Apple store if I were you, my keys are all sounding pretty similar.
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Hehe see above... I'm not ready to choose yetThanks!
If you had a gun to your head and had to choose one of the two, which one would you keep?
Yeah; I spoke to AppleCare and they said its normal because of the way in which the larger keys are supported compared to the small keys. He said I probably noticed it with the other large keys too, which is true to an extent, but it does strike me as odd to have a few keys which sound different and particularly the backspace key.
No problem! Its a difficult choice. Having both of the machines shows that both have advantages and disadvantages.
Below my thoughts about why I would keep one or the other for now:
Would keep the 13" for:
- Better looking (this is personal preference but to me the 13" is just sexier)
- Much more portable and usable on couch (its just much easier to run around with)
- Performance is now very good with its quad core
Would keep the 15" for:
- Better speakers (the 13" are also massively improved since last year, but the 15" have a tad better mids and bass)
- Even more powerful than the 13" (even noticeable in day to day tasks that don't tax the CPU to the max)
- Bigger screen (this is a pro for me as I'm mostly using my MacBook at a desk all day without second screen.)
[doublepost=1532200958][/doublepost]
That weird... There is absolutely not such big difference for me. Would get that checked at an Apple store if I were you, my keys are all sounding pretty similar.
[doublepost=1532201056][/doublepost]
Hehe see above... I'm not ready to choose yet
Tick tock, the next 12 days will pass by quick
No problem! Its a difficult choice. Having both of the machines shows that both have advantages and disadvantages.
Below my thoughts about why I would keep one or the other for now:
Would keep the 13" for:
- Better looking (this is personal preference but to me the 13" is just sexier)
- Much more portable and usable on couch (its just much easier to run around with)
- Performance is now very good with its quad core
Would keep the 15" for:
- Better speakers (the 13" are also massively improved since last year, but the 15" have a tad better mids and bass)
- Even more powerful than the 13" (even noticeable in day to day tasks that don't tax the CPU to the max)
- Bigger screen (this is a pro for me as I'm mostly using my MacBook at a desk all day without second screen.)
[doublepost=1532200958][/doublepost]
That weird... There is absolutely not such big difference for me. Would get that checked at an Apple store if I were you, my keys are all sounding pretty similar.
[doublepost=1532201056][/doublepost]
Hehe see above... I'm not ready to choose yet
Would it be possible for you to help with a speaker comparison of the old 13 and the new 13?
No problem, will do that tomorrow. I now only have an 2017 13" nTB model available, but those speakers already sounded better that the 2017 13" TB I will make a comparison tomorrow of these machines. Ill also throw in the 15" to show the differences
Many thanks! You are not making it easy for me to hold on to my 2016 13" machine.
Although, in India, if these machines come only with 8GB and I have no way to upgrade to 16 on the 13", I will pass on them.
Seems like the 2.2 and 2.6 i7 15" are really benefiting from having a power limit. I wish we could try values higher than that because it seems like the sweet spot for 8th gen is at 52W but Volta only allows up to 45W. Me and a few others have emailed the dev asking him to update the app so hopefully he does it.
The i9 unfortunately requires more than 45W so they really need Volta to get updated, or Apple to push an optimization update soon.
If we can do this, Apple can do much more. Theoretically they can let the CPU boost freely for the first 28 seconds as other manufacturers do then power limit it to 45W~55W for a stable performance. They can also increase the fan curve and make it kick in a little earlier (heard the fans kick in so late on the 2018 models).
Again, Thanks for running these tests. It is unfortunate that we as a community need to do such work and effort when we are paying that much but it never hurts figuring out ways to squeeze as much juice out of our devices.
TLDR; Most of the issues can be fixed with a software update if Apple wants.
Yeah it would be great if Volta could provide some more(higher) options in the usage, I hope its possible for him to build this in. Normally with Volta limited to 45watt I get a cinebench of around 970 consistenlty. But I've also tested a run with no limit to start with and then after a few seconds manually apply the 45watt limit. Then the CPU is at its full potential and there I got a 1030 score in cinebench.
Hey, cool I would find it useful if you'd like to run something like Unigine Heaven or Valley (and post the settings), I don't think that's something I see around for MBP. Also, the CineBench OpenGL would be cool.
If Bootcamp is available I'd also suggest Time Spy/Firestrike, but I don't think they're available on macOS.
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In theory it could also be that they're unable to do it, but that's really not possible in practice.
I would find it useful if you'd like to run something like Unigine Heaven or Valley (and post the settings), I don't think that's something I see around for MBP. Also, the CineBench OpenGL would be cool.If Bootcamp is available I'd also suggest Time Spy/Firestrike, but I don't think they're available on macOS.
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Part of me thinks that Apple does not want to. Given that a community of mostly non-engineers figures this out in about a week, you got to think that Apple engineers would be on top of this within a day or two after receiving first production samples. Even before production samples they should have pretty clear indications. This would presumably have been quite some time ago from now. Granted, there's a big difference between recognising a problem and creating a production fix that goes into millions of machines. But even a minimal emergency fix for release date while they work out the exact power, voltage and fan profiles would have gone a long way, and they didn't do it.
In theory it could also be that they're unable to do it, but that's really not possible in practice.
Hey, cool
If Bootcamp is available I'd also suggest Time Spy/Firestrike, but I don't think they're available on macOS.
[doublepost=1532211411][/doublepost]
Part of me thinks that Apple does not want to. Given that a community of mostly non-engineers figures this out in about a week, you got to think that Apple engineers would be on top of this within a day or two after receiving first production samples. Even before production samples they should have pretty clear indications. This would presumably have been quite some time ago from now. Granted, there's a big difference between recognising a problem and creating a production fix that goes into millions of machines. But even a minimal emergency fix for release date while they work out the exact power, voltage and fan profiles would have gone a long way, and they didn't do it.
In theory it could also be that they're unable to do it, but that's really not possible in practice.
I agree. They should know better than us but something tells me that they might have missed it (somehow). We are talking about a company that forgot to test their keyboards against the evil Bread crumbs and sand.
It's not possible that they missed it. Several of us in the forums predicted that the MBP 2018 would throttle with the new chips if the cooling was unchanged, long before the new models were even released. All it took was a look at past thermal and power specs and performance of the MBP, the thermal and performance of the new chips as they started coming out on other laptops, and you immediately know that if unchanged, then MBP's will throttle with the same chips.
Now Apple would have had prototype boards and chip samples from Intel running at the beginning of the year. They would also know even before receiving the chips, that power delivery and thermals would be a significant risk factor and had to be on the short list of things to learn more about first. Missing this detail, would be like you taking your new car out for a ride and somehow missing that it had a square steering device instead of a wheel.
Same with the butterfly keyboard. There's no way they didn't know about the keyboard problems even before the release of the 2016 models. They might not have known the severity of it, but they had to have known that it was a potential risk. Something like that doesn't get missed. The patent they apparently filed in 2016 shows that clearly if nothing else.
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See, I don't think they give a f*ck about negative media. It takes class action lawsuits to change their minds.After all the negative media attention they will definitely want to.
I have the same. The return key, backspace etc. But I think this is normal. After a while, you do get used to it. I find the keys at the top of the keyboard sound different from those at the bottom, too!
I know that the general consensus is that the 8th gen chips produce more heat than the 7th gen and earlier but as demonstrated here the 2.2 GHz when power limited to 45W (the power the MBP cooling system is rated for, and also max power used in a 7th gen MBP for CPU) it becomes stable at 2.9~3 GHz (Higher than base clock).
If the 2.6 GHz i7 gets set to 45W limit too it becomes more stable and fluctuates between 3.2 to 4 GHz (mostly staying between 3.4 to 3.6 GHz) which is also above its base clock. Unfortunately it is the i9 the seems to require more power because setting it at 45W makes it stick to the base clock (2.9 GHz).
It was also noticed by ALL YouTubers that the fans kick in much much later on a 2018 MBP than previous models. This is not normal. Linus noticed the fans only kicked in about a minute after the CPU hit 100 degrees! Apple should adjust the fan pattern and make it kick in sooner and rotate faster if needed.
Again, the MBP cooling solution is rated at 45W which is the TDP provided by Intel. Notebookcheck mentioned that this seems to be the first time Apple places no power limitation and lets the CPU do its thing with only thermal limitations. This does not seem to be the case with the 2017 models and earlier (limited to 45W).
If Apple power limits the CPUs to 52W after 28 seconds this should let the CPU get to full turbo boost and throttle to a very good performance above the base clock and keep at it. Of course this won't unleash the true power of the i9 as it can use over 100W which an MBP can't even deliver regardless, but who thought an MBP can run an i9 at max performance anyways. Having an i9 just hovering above the base click would be perfect already.