Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The both of you should ask the iPod mini what happened to it during it's prime. In fact it was Apple's best selling iPod (and thus the best selling MP3 player in the world).

Ok, that's actually a good point. A MBA with Ivy Bridge might be as powerful as the current MBP 13''. With SSD prices going down, they might be able to offer the 13'' MBA at the $1199 price point of the current MBP, thus making it completely obsolete.

We'll see. I think it will be another year and a half before the 13'' MBP goes away, but who knows.
 
Ok, that's actually a good point. A MBA with Ivy Bridge might be as powerful as the current MBP 13''. With SSD prices going down, they might be able to offer the 13'' MBA at the $1199 price point of the current MBP, thus making it completely obsolete.

We'll see. I think it will be another year and a half before the 13'' MBP goes away, but who knows.

It is also ironic how the iPod nano that replaced the iPod mini favored flash memory and a smaller form factor over the mini's regular hard drive.

MBA (flash memory and smaller form factor) replacing MBP (bulkier with regular hard drive).
 
It is also ironic how the iPod nano that replaced the iPod mini favored flash memory and a smaller form factor over the mini's regular hard drive.

MBA (flash memory and smaller form factor) replacing MBP (bulkier with regular hard drive).

Yeah, I looked the iPod mini up on wikipedia. Basically once apple had the technology to replace the mini with an equally powerful but slimmer/smaller device, they did it.
 
I agree. I would by a 13" Pro if it had the higher resolution screen. That is the only thing holding me back.

That's a really good point actually: if it was the case and the price didn't change, I'm willing to bet that more than half of MBA owners would have an hi-res 13" MBP instead.
 
I too like many think it will disappear to get rid of fragmentation. Apple hate fragentation as they use the word for Android so often in interviews etc.

Think 11" and 13" air for ultimate portability. Whereas the Pro will be the professionals notebook. standard quad core cpus, more powerful GPUS for when needed and I think it would make sense for apple to bundle a nice external dvd-rw if they are to remove the optical drive. As lets face it a 16x external dvd-rw could be manufactured for apple for about $10 if they order say a million.
 
All I see is speculation and conjecture, there's nothing pointing to the 13" MBP being eliminated.

I know most people are assuming Apple is going to do away with the optical drive and somehow have one 13" notebook (as opposed to the Pro and the Air). but it would be foolish of them to get rid of it.

Optical media is not dead, it's dying, but it's not dead. It's still going to be around for a long time. Just because Apple says it's dead doesn't mean it's dead.

Apple just makes design decisions (no matter how stupid) for the sake of making them. Look at the new Mac Mini, only God in his infinite wisdom knows why a desktop computer shouldn't have an optical drive, especially since Apple left the other hard drive bay empty by default.

Edit: Yeah yeah, I know optical drives don't see use everyday for the average user, but neither do memory card readers, should we then eliminate memory card readers too? Apple just wants to do away with optical drives because it doesn't allow them to make certain products as 'stylish' as they would otherwise want.
 
Having once owned a 13" MBP and now a 15" MBP, I can definitely see the case for having both of these machines in the lineup. I really think, like others have stated, if the resolution of the 13" MBP was higher I might have gone that route.

Now that I am on the 15", though, I don't think I would go back to the 13" even if they did increase the resolution - since I use this as my primary machine now, and have been spoiled a little bit (not to mention that my eyes are aging and increased screen size is always a plus for preventing tired eyes).

If the 13" MBA would get a RAM bump to 8GB, then I could definitely see much less of a need for the 13" MBP. I was actually considering the 13" MBA but the 4GB ceiling is what sent me quickly in another direction.

The interesting thing is that the 13" MBP has only been around for 3 years (introduced in 2008), so going back to the pre-2008 lineup of a 15" and 17" MBP would not surprise me at all.
 
This got me to think of the difference between a 13" MBA and the upcoming new 13" MBP.
Well, this insight has never been discussed here before. :eek:

As cash cows go, the MBP13 is Apple's finest moo-ers in the Pro line. The Air does well too. Why drop revenue by merging 2 products that cater to different end users into a single "no choice" offering?
 
Optical media is not dead, it's dying, but it's not dead. It's still going to be around for a long time. Just because Apple says it's dead doesn't mean it's dead.

And if Apple and other computer manfacturers continue to do away with optical drives, then CDs may well be dead, as companies turn to alternative means of transferring data in a bid to work around this limitation.

Apple doesn't say "I think CDs are going to be around, so I keep the disk drive". They say "I want the CD to disappear, so I will do away with disk drives in a bid to kickstart this phenomenon." :D
 
And if Apple and other computer manfacturers continue to do away with optical drives, then CDs may well be dead, as companies turn to alternative means of transferring data in a bid to work around this limitation.

Apple doesn't say "I think CDs are going to be around, so I keep the disk drive". They say "I want the CD to disappear, so I will do away with disk drives in a bid to kickstart this phenomenon." :D

Except old habits die hard.

People aren't going to change their computing habits overnight because Apple wants them to. They're going to look for a computer that will accommodate their usage patterns.

If Apple says, discrete graphics is dead and stops including discrete graphics in its computers ... Do you think people will just nod and say, I guess they're right, or do you think they'd search for a computer that has discrete graphics?

Similarly, if Apple opts to remove an optical drive, then people who want an optical drive will simply not buy an Apple computer.

One would think these points are fairly obvious.

Edit: I know optical media is going to be replaced (on the consumer level anyway) eventually, but it still has a large enough presence to warrant its place on some computers.
 
That makes no sense

It would make no sense to discontinue the whole 13" line. It's not the case here, they would just update it while changing the name.

They would just replace it with its logical evolution. Just like the mini -> nano evolution people pointed out.

Another example would be the 2008 Aluminium MacBook. It was selling very well, but they discontinued it. They still introduced the 13" MBP, which was pretty much the same thing, except it was upgraded and had a new name.

It also means with the removal of the optical drive they can add a discrete GPU. You can say that they want people to upgrade to the 15" but people still will because the 15" will still offer a better GPU than the 13". The 13" MBP will not be gone.

The only way I could see both a 13" MBA and 13" MBP (with SSD and no ODD) coexist is if they put discrete graphics into the MBP.

However, most people buying 13" MBPs right now are not pro users. They will compare the price of the old and new MBP and think the price raised for no reason, since they don't need discrete graphics. Most of them will not consider the 13" MBA even though it would be just what they need only because it has a different name. I know it's crazy but just the name of a product has a lot of influence on the buying decision of most people, especially those with poor technical knowledge.

A lot of people used to just walk into an Apple Store and ask a regular MacBook. Yeah, it sucked for the price, but it was the "regular" MacBook. The one that targeted "regular" computer user, what they felt they were. A lot of them wouldn't even consider the other options.

If they discontinued the 13" MBP, I think it would be more obvious that something else could fit their need, even with a different name. A lot of people are now minded that they want a MacBook Pro, because it's now what is considered the "regular" MacBook, the 13" specifically. If you tell them it's gone, they will ask what replaced it, and consider the new option.

It's like if somebody walked into an Apple store after they discontinued the iPod mini and ask for one. They would had offered him the nano instead. If Apple had kept both at the same time, even at the same price, I'm sure some people would have managed to buy the mini just because that's the name they knew.

- The difference between ULV and LV is not negligible.

True. But the thing is that processor performance evolves more quickly than the need of most people. With ULV processors getting better and better, I can see LV-CPU laptops having the same faith as desktops in the future. ULV-CPU laptops will have enough performance for most people while having a more attractive form factor, and LV-CPU laptops will slowly start to be chosen more for specialized tasks such as pro applications and gaming.

- The MBP has more ports. Namely the Ethernet one.

- The MBP has higher potential for RAM upgrades. The MBA's capped at 4GB, while the MBP can go up to 8GB (or even 16GB if you go aftermarket).

- The MBP offers storage space. For 1200€ you get double than what you'd get for a 1600€ MBA. (And if one wants SSD, one can get that as well.)

- The MBP has better screen quality despite the lower resolution.

- The MBP has an Optical Drive. If that goes, it might have a dedicated graphics card.

For all these reasons, I believe the MBP 13" and the MBA 13" are not redundant. And for the fact it's Apple's best-selling laptop, I even more doubt it'll disappear next year.

You are comparing the current MBP and MBA. The thread was about a future, hypothetic new MBP released sometime next year, with SSD and without ODD.

The MBA would probably be updated around the same time, with likely a better CPU and higher storage and RAM options. The MBP could also lose its FireWire and even Ethernet port if Apple feel they are outdated. Apple are like that sometimes.

Optical media is not dead, it's dying, but it's not dead. It's still going to be around for a long time. Just because Apple says it's dead doesn't mean it's dead.

Apple just makes design decisions (no matter how stupid) for the sake of making them. Look at the new Mac Mini, only God in his infinite wisdom knows why a desktop computer shouldn't have an optical drive, especially since Apple left the other hard drive bay empty by default.

It's not dead yet but Apple are doing everything they can to kill it. It's not really just a design thing, it's also an economic decision. If people can't watch DVDs, install disc-based software and rip their music CDs, they will be more likely to buy content on iTunes and the Mac App Store.
 
Last edited:
Next-gen processors mean the 13" could get a quad-core. Personally, I'm hoping now for quad-core and discrete graphics, with no optical drive. But I'm not holding my breath on that one.
 
Except old habits die hard.

People aren't going to change their computing habits overnight because Apple wants them to. They're going to look for a computer that will accommodate their usage patterns.

It's apple. They are arrogant enough to say "This is how we are going to build our products. You can either buy it or get the hell out." And being the masochists we are, we go for them regardless. :D

The lack of a disk drive didn't exactly stop people from buying the MBA. I still bought an Imac despite knowing fully well that it would be nigh impossible to upgrade. Nor did the lack of flash stop the Ipad from becoming a phenomenal success (though I do know of a few friends who returned the ipad because it could not run flash).

People are going to buy said product exactly because it is manufactured by apple. Yes, there will be limitations, and they will then learn to live with and even rationalise the lack of those aforementioned features.
 
It's apple. They are arrogant enough to say "This is how we are going to build our products. You can either buy it or get the hell out." And being the masochists we are, we go for them regardless. :D

The lack of a disk drive didn't exactly stop people from buying the MBA. I still bought an Imac despite knowing fully well that it would be nigh impossible to upgrade. Nor did the lack of flash stop the Ipad from becoming a phenomenal success (though I do know of a few friends who returned the ipad because it could not run flash).

People are going to buy said product exactly because it is manufactured by apple. Yes, there will be limitations, and they will then learn to live with and even rationalise the lack of those aforementioned features.

Lol, speak for yourself. I don't compromise when it comes to things I use on a frequent basis such as my computer. If I need something and Apple doesn't have it, then I will go to the numerous other computer manufacturers to get it.

Who you are describing in your post is the common idiot, the guy with more money than sense. Apple tells him something is in and so he feels he needs to get it.

With regards to the Air, notice I said "habits die hard" ... Early adopters of the Air didn't have the habit of using optical media (or the habit of wanting it rather), and as such it wasn't a deal breaker for them. People's patterns don't change overnight ... Heck even the people who needed optical media and owned an Air, I can guarantee you they had an external optical drive or another computer with one.

But I guess you are right, there are people who bought the 2011 Mini as their only computer after all.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.