13" MB Air vs 13" MBP

[spmiz12]

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Wondering why people dis the MBP 13" as being such old technology with having a dual core, compared to the newer 15" & 17" MBP....

Also, Wondering outside of the MB Air being lighter, having a SSD drive ( which can be upgraded on MBP), having a wide screen; what else is better then a 13" MBP?? ... I mean they both are a dual core. I mean the mbp has a fast processor, more ram, has drive, and you can always add a SSD... Both have about same size screen space.

So why is the mbp, not compared as being capable as the air??

 

[mrsir2009]

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Wondering why people dis the MBP 13" as being such old technology with having a dual core, compared to the newer 15" & 17" MBP....

Also, Wondering outside of the MB Air being lighter, having a SSD drive ( which can be upgraded on MBP), having a wide screen; what else is better then a 13" MBP?? ... I mean they both are a dual core. I mean the mbp has a fast processor, more ram, has drive, and you can always add a SSD... Both have about same size screen space.

So why is the mbp, not compared as being capable as the air??

What do you mean? The 13" MBP is more capable than the air in every way (apart from portability).

And Core duo isn't "old technology". Its still very good and capable. For most people there is no point having anything better than a core duo anyway.

 

[spmiz12]

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I agree, but why exactly do alot of people praise the air so much?? But yet talk like the MBP is so antique because of no real upgrade for over a year...

I ordered mine, second guessed my decision with either going to a bigger MBP; I even questioned going with the 13" air, but I figure I could add to a MBP later....

Just wondered..

 

[mrsir2009]

Well what are you going to be using a laptop for?

 

[coochiekuta]

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Wondering why people dis the MBP 13" as being such old technology with having a dual core, compared to the newer 15" & 17" MBP....

Also, Wondering outside of the MB Air being lighter, having a SSD drive ( which can be upgraded on MBP), having a wide screen; what else is better then a 13" MBP?? ... I mean they both are a dual core. I mean the mbp has a fast processor, more ram, has drive, and you can always add a SSD... Both have about same size screen space.

So why is the mbp, not compared as being capable as the air??

its mostly because the air is new. the 13" pro processor iisnt that much faster than the 13" mba which has a 6MB cache. that makes the processor perform better than you would imagine it should. the standard ssd also helps the performance so you get a machine that matches up really well, and in some cases, beats the 13 mbp. of course you pay more for it too.

the biggest problem with the 13 mbp is, its a pro. the pro line is suppose to be just that. it shouldnt have that c2d to begin with. maybe even deserves discrete graphics.

 

[dmelgar]

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Wondering why people dis the MBP 13" as being such old technology with having a dual core, compared to the newer 15" & 17" MBP....

Also, Wondering outside of the MB Air being lighter, having a SSD drive ( which can be upgraded on MBP), having a wide screen; what else is better then a 13" MBP?? ... I mean they both are a dual core. I mean the mbp has a fast processor, more ram, has drive, and you can always add a SSD... Both have about same size screen space.

So why is the mbp, not compared as being capable as the air??

Bigger MBPs can have an i5 or i7 chip. These processors are faster than the older c2d. The i7 is offered by intel with 2 or 4 cores, but apple uses the 2 core version.

Meanwhile, Apple charges $350 to upgrade the pro to 128GB SSD. That makes the 13" pro almost $200 more expensive than the comparable Air. The Air also seems to boot and wake up even faster. Apple may have tweaked the firmware/drivers. Both can be configured with 4GB of memory. 8GB is still too expensive.

Other than that, the obvious difference is that the Air is more portable. Lighter and thinner. People buy laptops for portability. The more portable the better. The display on the Air is higher resolution than the MBP.

Overall, the Air is a better deal right now. Theres lots of debate about what the MBP lineup will get in the next update assumed for early next year. Right now Apple has three 13" laptop models. Clearly too many. They're likely to drop at least one model, either the 13" MacBook or 13" MacBook Pro. If the keep the Pro, it will likely get a good update to make it competitive with the Air and provide even more capability for same or less money.

 

[spmiz12]

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I understand; but what do people do with the air when they travel; not ever hotel/ business utilizes wireless Internet?? I mean without a Ethernet port??

I started playing with my 13" pro, and think it gives more options... Not try to upset anyone, just asking to better understand

 

[coochiekuta]

Bigger MBPs can have an i5 or i7 chip. The i7 has 4 cores but 8 threads. It sorta acts like it has 8 cores, therefore much faster than the 13" MBP.

Meanwhile, Have you seen the upgrade price to get an SSD from Apple for the 13" MBP? It's outrageous (very expensive). The Air also seems to boot and wake up even faster. Apple may have tweaked the firmware/drivers. Both can be configured with 4GB of memory. 8GB is still too expensive.

Other than that, the obvious difference is that the Air is more portable. Lighter and thinner. People buy laptops for portability. The more portable the better. The display on the Air is higher resolution than the MBP.

Overall, the Air is a better deal right now. Theres lots of debate about what the MBP lineup will get in the next update assumed for early next year. Right now Apple has three 13" laptop models. Clearly too many. They're likely to drop at least one model, either the 13" MacBook or 13" MacBook Pro. If the keep the Pro, it will likely get a good update to make it competitive with the Air and provide even more capability for same or less money.

just a lil note, the mobile i7s apple uses arent quad core. 8 gig ram isnt expensive if you do it yourself. buy it from apple and yeah youll pay highly for it.

 

[Apple OC]

13 MBP for me ... for the sole reason of the user upgrade options.

 

[spmiz12]

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$107 for 8GB of OCZ ram ( after 32 rebate for old ram ) is rather cheap... Plus give 6 months and SSD prices will come down alot..

 

[alust2013]

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I understand; but what do people do with the air when they travel; not ever hotel/ business utilizes wireless Internet?? I mean without a Ethernet port??

I started playing with my 13" pro, and think it gives more options... Not try to upset anyone, just asking to better understand

It does. And the performance/cost ratio is better for the MBP. Better battery, processor, GPU, more ports, better expandability, backlit keyboard (if you care). On the downside it doesn't come with SSD, 13" MBP doesn't have as high res as 13" MBA, but overall I think it's a better product for most uses.

 

[spmiz12]

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I understand; but what do people do with the air when they travel; not ever hotel/ business utilizes wireless Internet?? I mean without a Ethernet port??

I started playing with my 13" pro, and think it gives more options... Not try to upset anyone, just asking to better understand

It does. And the performance/cost ratio is better for the MBP. Better battery, processor, GPU, more ports, better expandability, backlit keyboard (if you care). On the downside it doesn't come with SSD, 13" MBP doesn't have as high res as 13" MBA, but overall I think it's a better product for most uses.

I do agree also... Just when I was trying to decide, several people bashed the 13 MBP; and praised the 13 Air, I just didn't get it; especially after playing with it.... But then again, I do my heavy work on my iMac... Just trying to learn more, from more seasoned veterans .

 

[wirelessmacuser]

One of the obvious reasons so much attention goes to the 13" MBA over the 13" MBP, is "the latest & greatest" factor. I have both and assure you these are two distinctively different laptops. Therefore, nothing has changed when it comes to how I suggest a certain model when someone asks me.

It's all about what you are going to use the computer for, and under what conditions. From there it's usually a pretty easy decision.

The only factor that turns it into a difficult decision is if the user has trouble determining what they need vs what they want.

 

[Kauai]

As far as an SSD goes is a few seconds here and there really that big of a deal to the average user? Honestly I think SSD's aren't at all worth it at the moment and for all the people who go crazy over them -- wait a year when it starts to degrade unrepairably and your 500$ for a 128gb drive won't seem so smart.

And as far as the display goes...I'd definitely pay for a Hi-res 13' screen on the MBP but c'mon. Is a few pixels really that noticeable for someone who isn't working on photography?

 

[ihonda]

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$107 for 8GB of OCZ ram ( after 32 rebate for old ram ) is rather cheap... Plus give 6 months and SSD prices will come down alot..

where? i will be all over this

 

[spmiz12]

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As far as an SSD goes is a few seconds here and there really that big of a deal to the average user? Honestly I think SSD's aren't at all worth it at the moment and for all the people who go crazy over them -- wait a year when it starts to degrade unrepairably and your 500$ for a 128gb drive won't seem so smart.

And as far as the display goes...I'd definitely pay for a Hi-res 13' screen on the MBP but c'mon. Is a few pixels really that noticeable for someone who isn't working on photography?

SSD is very expensive.... But seagate has a hybrid SSD 7200RPM drive for about 147 bucks; suppose to be 70% faster then standard 7200 drive.... That to me seems more sensible....

Great conversation though... Thought I was missing something that I just wasn't really understanding...

 

[Kauai]

where? i will be all over this

OWC ram costs 139.99 for 8gb and if you return your original 4gb they'll give you a 32$ rebate.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/8566DDR3S8GP/
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/support/rebates/

 

[Kauai]

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SSD is very expensive.... But seagate has a hybrid SSD 7200RPM drive for about 147 bucks; suppose to be 70% faster then standard 7200 drive.... That to me seems more sensible....

Great conversation though... Thought I was missing something that I just wasn't really understanding...

Yeah you're talking about the XT Hybrid which if you want something faster than a 7200 RPM is definitely the best deal right now. For anyone who wants an SSD I'd definitely suggest they get one of those (Hybrids) and wait while SSD technology comes out of it's infancy.

 

[coochiekuta]

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SSD is very expensive.... But seagate has a hybrid SSD 7200RPM drive for about 147 bucks; suppose to be 70% faster then standard 7200 drive.... That to me seems more sensible....

Great conversation though... Thought I was missing something that I just wasn't really understanding...

ssd, they are expensive to be sure but they smoke 7200RPM drives. we are talking a read and write speed of approximately 80MB/sec versus 200MB/sec. if you are someone who deals with large files you will really appreciate that.

besides, the hard drive is the most likely the bottleneck in the system, whichever system it is. another reason to have a ssd, if you can. not for everyone but they have their uses.

 

[miata]

As far as an SSD goes is a few seconds here and there really that big of a deal to the average user? Honestly I think SSD's aren't at all worth it at the moment and for all the people who go crazy over them -- wait a year when it starts to degrade unrepairably and your 500$ for a 128gb drive won't seem so smart.

And as far as the display goes...I'd definitely pay for a Hi-res 13' screen on the MBP but c'mon. Is a few pixels really that noticeable for someone who isn't working on photography?

For the stuff I do an SSD could provide a big difference. But if you really want the ultimate get a MBP 13 with a pair of SSDs striped. That will blow a MBA away on any day -- and in a couple of years when SSD gets even cheaper you can have a pair of striped 1 TB drives.

Get a drive like the OWC or OCZ with SandForce controller and you don't have to worry about degradation over time.

I do believe that low resolution is an issue though -- especially if you are coming from a 15" MBP or most any other higher end laptop. I sure wish Apple would provide a high resolution option as you mention.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

It does. And the performance/cost ratio is better for the MBP. Better battery, processor, GPU, more ports, better expandability, backlit keyboard (if you care). On the downside it doesn't come with SSD, 13" MBP doesn't have as high res as 13" MBA, but overall I think it's a better product for most uses.

I agree 100%.

There's a lot of excitement around the performance of the SSD in the MBA series. However this is largely because most people have never had one before so naturally they're impressed. I've been using several SSD's for well over a year in my various ThinkPads. Now with the "newness" fading, they are not quite the supreme improvement that many make them out to be. Like anything else they have their pros & cons. Once you've used them for awhile that becomes more apparent.

Personally I maintain the technology is not yet mature enough. While much better than just six months ago, they still have some issues. Another six to twelve months of development will work wonders. Right now unless ever moment spent booting & launching applications is crucial, I'd wait and leave SSD's alone unless they're the default drive.

For the person deciding on just one laptop to live with, I'd take the MBP in a flash & never look back ...

 

[Kauai]

ssd, they are expensive to be sure but they smoke 7200RPM drives. we are talking a read and write speed of approximately 80MB/sec versus 200MB/sec. if you are someone who deals with large files you will really appreciate that.

besides, the hard drive is the most likely the bottleneck in the system, whichever system it is. another reason to have a ssd, if you can. not for everyone but they have their uses.

I'm pretty sure Apple downgraded from SATA Revision 2 to Revision 1 in their MB/MBP lines (not sure about MBA) so that's a whole other reason not to get an SSD. Many SSD's can operate at 300+ MB/sec (for a few months, then they WILL begin to degrade and eventually become worse than a 5200 RPM HDD) but they will be capped at nearly half of that. So even if your willing to throw money at a sinking ship you're not getting your moneys worth.

As you can clearly see I refuse to jump on the SSD bandwagon. Maybe in 1-1.5 years but I'm strongly against them at the moment. Total rip offs.

 

[Kauai]

For the stuff I do an SSD could provide a big difference. But if you really want the ultimate get a MBP 13 with a pair of SSDs striped. That will blow a MBA away on any day -- and in a couple of years when SSD gets even cheaper you can have a pair of striped 1 TB drives.

Get a drive like the OWC or OCZ with SandForce controller and you don't have to worry about degradation over time.

I do believe that low resolution is an issue though -- especially if you are coming from a 15" MBP or most any other higher end laptop. I sure wish Apple would provide a high resolution option as you mention.

Nahh even OWC doesn't say that their SandForce drives won't degrade otherwise they wouldn't offer two versions of them the other having the exact same amount of speed but that isn't suppose to degrade as fast.

 

[miata]

I agree 100%.

There's a lot of excitement around the performance of the SSD in the MBA series. However this is largely because most people have never had one before so naturally they're impressed. I've been using several SSD's for well over a year in my various ThinkPads. Now with the "newness" fading, they are not quite the supreme improvement that many make them out to be. Like anything else they have their pros & cons. Once you've used them for awhile that becomes more apparent.

Personally I maintain the technology is not yet mature enough. While much better than just six months ago, they still have some issues. Another six to twelve months of development will work wonders. Right now unless ever moment spent booting & launching applications is crucial, I'd wait and leave SSD's alone unless they're the default drive.

For the person deciding on just one laptop to live with, I'd take the MBP in a flash & never look back ...

Just curious. Other then the obvious capacity limitations and especially the price/TB for SSD what are the issues with getting something like a OWC or OCZ SSD drive?

 

[miata]

Nahh even OWC doesn't say that their SandForce drives won't degrade otherwise they wouldn't offer two versions of them the other having the exact same amount of speed but that isn't suppose to degrade as fast.

My understanding is that you are paying for reliability and performance for applications where you rewriting blocks over and over again -- like swap or scratch disks. For these applications you will use RAID 0 and get the benefits of the over provisioned OWC drives.

But for normal applications the the OWC Pro versions should work fine.