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13" MB Air vs 13" MBP

miata said:
My understanding is that you are paying for reliability and performance for applications where you rewriting blocks over and over again -- like swap or scratch disks. For these applications you will use RAID 0 and get the benefits of the over provisioned OWC drives.

But for normal applications the the OWC Pro versions should work fine.
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From OWC youtube:

The difference between the two is capacity and protection. The Pro RE series has a larger portion of the drive dedicated to over-provisioning. In it's simplest terms, the Pro RE drive series are designed to last longer and offer superior data redundancy than the Pro SSD models. Speed is pretty consistent between all the SSD drives.
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So yes of course you're correct in saying you do get other benefits from their RAID enabled SSDs but I still maintain that it isn't worth it. To spend hundreds of dollars on a 1xxgb SSD when you could get a HDD for three times less with four times as much space is insane. And for the average user, unless they have money to throw around, it isn't worth it.

When SSDs have similar failure rates and longevity compared to HDDs then I'll for sure get one. But until then I still think they're prototype technology. Especially given all the horror stories.
 
The only main problem I have with the MBA is the availability of only 1 USB port and the lack of Superdrive, those are particularly big turn-offs for me, and that's where I personally think MBP> MBA in terms of feature set.
 
greygray said:
The only main problem I have with the MBA is the availability of only 1 USB port and the lack of Superdrive, those are particularly big turn-offs for me, and that's where I personally think MBP> MBA in terms of feature set.
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MBA has two USB ports, one on both sides.
 
If you don't need more than 4GB ram, optical drive (or can deal with an external one), too much hard drive space, or firewire, the MB Air is great.

Seems like a lot to give up (for me included) but there are a good chunk of people who are perfectly fine without those things. For them I would recommend the MBA due to portability, standard SSD, and the better screen, things they will appreciate.
 
Having actually used a 11" MBA for two weeks, and owning a 13" MBP, I am amazed at how fast even the 11" with it's slow 1.6ghz processor is.

For practically every activity i could come up with, the MBA was faster than my MBP. In rare cases the MBP was barely faster. Running handbrake compression the MBP was almost twice as fast. In many cases, the MBA was up to 10 TIMES faster. That is a HUGE difference.

I filled up the drive, and had not noticed any performance degradation. I was seeing 200MB/s read speeds from the drive. Stock hard drive on the MBP can peak around 60MB/s but often less than 30 and if trashing, can be 1-2. The SSD was much much faster in all cases making the whole system behave faster than the MBP.

And you get a machine about half the weight. Display resolution is higher. The portability increase is significant. Why else have a laptop?

My wife just got a Lenovo w510 with a quad core i7 processor. It benchmarks twice as fast as my MBP in CPU and GPU tests. But the thing is HUGE and weighs a ton. It feels more like a luggable vs. the MBA as a revolutionary tiny piece of machinery.

Apple has set a new benchmark for how small a useful, powerful machine can be. They've made it so small, the electronics has become almost irrelevant. The machine is the smallest possible size with a full size keyboard, useful screen and good trackpad. The display thickness is astounding. I can't imagine a piece of glass that thin, much less an aluminum frame, LED backlight and LCD panel. And the camera is likewise incredibly thin.

Bottom line, the new MBAs are as fast as most people need, faster in real world situations than than the MBP, and the ultimate in portability.

What more can you ask for in a portable computer?
 
There is a lot of misinformation here.

First of all 8GB RAM is only ~120. That's not expensive at all.

Second, SSDs slow down over time, but they never get as slow as a 7200rpm drive (sandforce, intel). In fact, at their slowest they still easily out perform raptors.

Third, the MBA suffers from lack of customization. You can't change the ram, and currently you can't change the brand of ssd. On the mbp, you can easily switch hds. If sandforce comes out with a faster drive, I can upgrade to that. The mba is stuck with slow toshiba ssds that don't perform anywhere near sf1200 drives.

Fourth, ssds and hdds are not comparable in terms of reliability. A spinning needle and disk is far more prone to failure than flash memory. Ssds will always come out on top in terms of reliability.

Fifth, apple did not downgrade sata. It automatically switches based on what drive is connected.

Apologies to the weird caps, blame the iPad.
 
vant said:
Fourth, ssds and hdds are not comparable in terms of reliability. A spinning needle and disk is far more prone to failure than flash memory. Ssds will always come out on top in terms of reliability.
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Are we sure about that?

SSDs have not been really a mainstream product very long and they have not had any sort of history/track record to base this metric on.

I've seen a lot of posts on various forums about SSD failure. I also have seen 10 year old hard drives still work.
 
Second, SSDs slow down over time, but they never get as slow as a 7200rpm drive (sandforce, intel). In fact, at their slowest they still easily out perform raptors.
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I have heard many stories about SSDs becoming virtually unusable after just a few months / one years time. Maybe these were older models, not sure, either way I still don't think SSDs are even remotely worth it.
 
I went with the MBA. For me, MBP doesn't offer much over the Air.

The CPU is only barely better and in my usage the difference in negligible. If 13" MBP had i3 or i5, then I might think twice but since it's the same old C2D, MBA was no brainer in this category.

The GPU is the same in both machines. Although I bet MBA's is underclocked, I don't really care. I'm not planning to play games as I have PS3 for that so 320M is more than fine for me.

RAM wise MBP would have been better as it can take up to 8GB and it's user-upgradeable. I ordered my MBA with 4GB and I doubt I'm going to need more than that. If Apple offered no option for 4GB, then I would again think twice because that doesn't sound too good when I think about the future.

SSD vs HD is one the biggest reasons why I went with MBA. I know I can get MBP and upgrade its HD to SSD but that's an extra expense and brings MBP very close to MBA in terms of price. MBA's SSD may not be the best one on the market but I'm sure it will be lightyears ahead of any HD. I'm also fine with 128GB as I just ordered a 500GB 2.5" external HD for 40€ and I already got one 250GB which is portable (+ 2x1TB and 500GB that are not portable). I will keep most of my data in my iMac and externals, only some photos and music goes to the MBA (I got the external for videos so I can take it with me when I go for a longer trip).

MBA's hi res screen was also a deal-breaker. I don't know is there a difference in quality but according to AnandTech, the screen is very good and the extra pixels are just making it even sweeter. Again, if 13" MBP had had similar screen, the decision might have been harder but since it does not, MBA is the winner in this category.

Battery life is inferior in MBA but in all honesty, how many of us really need the 10-hour battery life? Of course it's something that is nice to have but not something that at least I would need. 7 hours is exactly what I hoped from the new MBA and AT's review and user comments show that you can get up to 10 hours off of it with basic usage. That's very, very nice from an ultraportable.

Multitouch trackpad and second USB port just sweetens the deal and makes it more similar to 13" MBP.

I don't think I really need the extra portability what MBA offers but due to the great updates what MBA got, I find it to be much better deal overall than the 13" MBP. MBA is about 700 grams lighter and little bit smaller form factor but with the same sized screen.

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I don't know yet how much I'm going to carry it around but IMO extra portability is never a minus, especially when you don't compromise on the screen size or other specs. Due to the portability, the weight or size won't be a reason why I can't carry it around.

I have a 24" iMac as my current main machine (possibly secondary soon? :p) so if I need more power or storage, I can always use my iMac. I'm sure MBA will be a perfect secondary computer for me and I can't see why it wouldn't work as a main computer. Some things make MBP better, like more storage and upgradeability but if those things don't bother you or you find the advantages of the MBA to be greater than its disadvantages, it's an amazing machine.

Of course, MBP update may change the game but personally, I don't like the waiting game too much, especially when I know that I don't need the extra power. I tried my luck with iMac waiting game and all I got was a marginally better GPU. Besides, MBP would still be bigger than the MBA.

W000t my MBA just prepared for shipment! :D I didn't know they ship on weekends but I'm very happy that they do
 
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I think the comparison between these two is difficult, but it's pretty strange what some people are coming up with (particularly in the MBA forum) about how the MBA is better period and they may as well stop making the 13" MBP - that's just silly talk.

The MBA is smaller and has some performance gains from the SSD - that's it. In return you're losing an optical drive, any serious storage built in, some processor power (not a lot, but enough to notice on some tasks), and any hope of upgrading or improving the machine in the future. Oh, and pound for pound it costs more.

Personally, I bought the 13" MBP a year ago with 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive, as a notebook that my wife and I could both use as the sole family computer, with enough storage and power to hold all our iTunes, photos, video etc and still stow away neatly under the coffee table. The MBA couldn't achieve a fraction of what that little computer achieves without being permanently attached to external drives and generally being a massive PITA and expensive mistake, so if I was buying again now I'd make the same choice.

SSDs are nice and all, but I'll equip our MBP with one when they're sensible sizes are affordable - I'd never pay through the nose for one now, especially not integrated in the way the MBA's is.
 
Dented said:
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I think the comparison between these two is difficult, but it's pretty strange what some people are coming up with (particularly in the MBA forum) about how the MBA is better period and they may as well stop making the 13" MBP - that's just silly talk.

The MBA is smaller and has some performance gains from the SSD - that's it. In return you're losing an optical drive, any serious storage built in, some processor power (not a lot, but enough to notice on some tasks), and any hope of upgrading or improving the machine in the future. Oh, and pound for pound it costs more.
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Want an upgradable machine? Get a tower desktop machine for a few hundred dollars. What, you can't replace the graphics card in the MBP? I can't change the optical drive to a decent bluray burner? What, no replaceable battery? Geez. So much for upgradable.

Pound for pound it costs more?
That's the whole point. It should cost more per pound. You don't want weight. You pay extra to get less weight, not more. Again if you want heavy, a desktop tower machine is your best bet.
 
Come to think of it, I barely plug anything into my MBP, except a memory stick or a printer (once in a blue moon). I will however need to use 1 USB port and a minidisplay port (and perhaps a sound jack).
 
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I don't need a new graphics card, and I dint have/want room for a tower. A bit more ram? Yeah, that might be useful in a year or two. So might a bigger/faster hard drive. I can add both easily and cheaply to my MBP whenever I want.

At the end of the day any portable is a compromise, but next to the perfectly portable MBP the MBA is a compromise too far - unless you NEED an ultra portable.
 
Dented said:
At the end of the day any portable is a compromise, but next to the perfectly portable MBP the MBA is a compromise too far - unless you NEED an ultra portable.
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Maybe for you. In real world, how many people really upgrade the HD or RAM? An average Joe doesn't do things like that, he just gets a new computer. Maybe handful of them upgrade something after few years because they come to a forum where someone recommends upgrading something.

I think I made myself clear in my post above. Just because you think MBA is way too compromised doesn't mean that we all do. If I was buying my main computer, then MBP might win due to upgradeability but MBA is still more than fine for an average Joe. Even without upgradeability.

You just got to understand the limitations of MBA to find its awesomeness. It may not be for everyone but neither it is meant to be.
 
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I never suggested the MBP was for everybody, my original point was simply that the MBA wasn't either. I've seen people seriously suggest that the MBA should replace the 13" MBP in the lineup, as if there's literally no reason to buy the MBP anymore, and that's nonsense.

If I was buying again now I'd get the MBP still for the same reasons I got it before - because it's a fully featured laptop with (if you configure it that way) enough ram and storage to be a serious desktop replacement, but in a very small and portable package. The MBA is not that - it's more portable, but that extra portability comes at a significant cost, and I'm not talking $.

If Apple scrapped the 13" MBP, as some people are suggesting, then there wouldn't be a computer for me in the lineup anymore. I don't have room for a desktop machine, the MBA would never work as my main or only computer, the vanilla MB would need upgrading immediately and be pretty poor value, and the 15" MBP is too big and expensive.

I don't know about the "average Joe" and I'm not really interested - at the end of the day, the real average Joe's buy PCs and don't even look at Macs in the first place.
 
This thread is interesting.

I'm all but resigned to the fact that I'll need a laptop in the short term. I'm going to try to hold off until 2011 because my company will kick in some $$ to offset the cost, if I buy one next year. With that said, I do have travel plans for the end of the Decemeber that will require a laptop. I'll see if I can scrape by with my dell mini 10v.

Anyways, as I obsess over MBA vs. MBP, I see the advantages of the MBA and the MBP.

I visited my local apple store and was blown away at how light the 13" MBA feels in comparison to the MBP, even though we're only talking 1.6lbs. The extra screen real estate is another plus.

As for the MBP, I get more ports, more memory, larger storage, the display has a wider gamut, and a backlit keyboard. Yet with all these advantages, the sexy siren call of the new sexy MBA calls me.

since I have a core i7 for a desktop, I will not need a lot of processing power and what ever laptop I opt for will be secondary. My kids may use it for time to time (so durability is a must). There will be periods of inactivity so price is a factor and lack of features may not be much of a factor.
 
Dented said:
I never suggested the MBP was for everybody, my original point was simply that the MBA wasn't either. I've seen people seriously suggest that the MBA should replace the 13" MBP in the lineup, as if there's literally no reason to buy the MBP anymore, and that's nonsense.

If I was buying again now I'd get the MBP still for the same reasons I got it before - because it's a fully featured laptop with (if you configure it that way) enough ram and storage to be a serious desktop replacement, but in a very small and portable package. The MBA is not that - it's more portable, but that extra portability comes at a significant cost, and I'm not talking $.

If Apple scrapped the 13" MBP, as some people are suggesting, then there wouldn't be a computer for me in the lineup anymore. I don't have room for a desktop machine, the MBA would never work as my main or only computer, the vanilla MB would need upgrading immediately and be pretty poor value, and the 15" MBP is too big and expensive.

I don't know about the "average Joe" and I'm not really interested - at the end of the day, the real average Joe's buy PCs and don't even look at Macs in the first place.
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Fully agreed. I don't have the money for a desktop and a laptop (and honestly I wouldn't really want to do two computers, I like having all my stuff on my portable) and with three ports, ability to upgrade hard drive to much bigger sizes, and to increase ram if I want more and on top of that a *cheaper* price, the MBP is a far better fit for me than the 13" Air. Honestly, the Air is not that much smaller and my 13" MBP is quite portable at the size it is. So I'd not compromise the things it loses unless the Air was significantly cheaper (but it's not cause it's not aimed at people on a budget like me, it's aimed at people who need a very portable computer and probably not using it as the main computer). I mean the only advantage the 13" MBA has over the MBP is size and the SSD. And I can add the SSD and the size of my MBP really isn't that big (nor is it that much bigger than the MBA to make up for what I lose and the more expensive price). Honestly, if size was important enough to me to go for the MBA, I'd be going for the 11" that does have a significant size advantage.

The MBP is great for people who want to replace their desktop with the laptop but also want something that is pretty portable (I mean the 13" MBP is pretty easily portable. My old 13" MB was pretty portable and it's thicker and heavier than my new MBP).
 
The MacBook Air is a no go for me as it has no FireWire 800 port like the MBP has. I need this for audio recording interfaces. Also, for audio production you need all the CPU you can afford. IMO the C2D 2.4 in the base model 13" is about as low as I'd personally go for recording and mixing audio. So as a recordist on a budget the MacBook Pro wins.
 
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I got some great news at work, they gave me a bonus, which will cover the cost of the laptop.

I opted for the MacBook Pro primarily because the cost (at microcenter) was 999 for the 13" MBP. For a secondary computer, price is the primary factor. Upgrade ability was second. While I wanted the higher resolution the MBA provided, the advantages of the MBP far out weighed (literally ;) ) the advantages of the MBA
 
Hellhammer said:
Battery life is inferior in MBA but in all honesty, how many of us really need the 10-hour battery life?
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It's great that Apple has a nice selection of different solutions, because the long battery life is essential to me. The advertised 10 hours becomes much much less when you have a firewire800 audio drive plugged in, chained with a Firewire audio interface providing phantom power to condenser microphones. Throw in a USB powered MIDI keyboard now and then too. I need as much battery life as I can get to mix my music when I'm not at a power supply.
 
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I sold my 2010 13" MBP for the new 13 MBA. I am very pleased with the new MBA and wouldn't swap back. Here are a few of my Positives and Negatives for 13MBA vs 13MBP:

Positives

Better battery life on the Air, real life figures over 10hrs (without flash heavy surfing)

Weight & Size

Higher resolution and less reflection on display

Standard SSD gives me great performance and 128GB is easily enough for me on my notebook

Negatives

Miss the glass screen, even though it has more reflections it was so easy to clean and the MBA screen feels fragile when cleaning.

Miss the backlit keyboard

On the rare occasion the fans kick in they are much louder than I ever heard on my 13 MBP

Sounds funny, but I often use my notebook on the arm of the sofa, and the air is so light I always feel like I am gonna knock it off when typing hard.



To be honest they are both great machines.:)
 
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