Retina Macbook Pro, don't like the screen.

[mark28]

After trying it out in the Apple store, the glare annoyed me. Especially since I got a Matte screen Macbook Pro. The difference is huge. The screen is not really an upgrade since you get a lot of glare in return which is bad.

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

 

[aaronw1986]

After trying it out in the Apple store, the glare annoyed me. Especially since I got a Matte screen Macbook Pro. The difference is huge. The screen is not really an upgrade since you get a lot of glare in return which is bad.

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

Cool story.

 

[ThisIsMe]

After trying it out in the Apple store, the glare annoyed me. Especially since I got a Matte screen Macbook Pro. The difference is huge. The screen is not really an upgrade since you get a lot of glare in return which is bad.

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

LOL! wow you did not like the display? what browser where you using? did you look at some images?

 

[boomboom2]

I'm waiting for the inevitable matte version in the future too...hopefully on a MBA

 

[jcpb]

Water is wet. News at 11.

 

[BlakeBrattina]

I went toying around at Best Buy today during my lunch break, couldn't get enough of the new screen, it's amazing.

 

[J.L.Photography]

Zzzzzz....

And my house is also filled with a ceiling full of flourescent lighting and I shine lights at the screen so I can't see it, crap, owell....

 

[Rajpdx]

Cool story.

It wasn't bad I suppose. I would have liked a little more character development myself. Perhaps some understanding of what drove the main character, his motivation for doing things.

And some love interest might have humanised the story a bit too. Perhaps a foxy Apple chick, or one of those hairy chaps they have wearing the stained wrinkly shorts that look like long underwear - depending on his preference.

 

[mattonthemoon]

After trying it out in the Apple store, the glare annoyed me. Especially since I got a Matte screen Macbook Pro. The difference is huge. The screen is not really an upgrade since you get a lot of glare in return which is bad.

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

Thanks for this, now i can sleep at night.

 

[kdoug]

After trying it out in the Apple store, the glare annoyed me. Especially since I got a Matte screen Macbook Pro. The difference is huge. The screen is not really an upgrade since you get a lot of glare in return which is bad.

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

How dare you express your opinion.

 

[blueicedj]

Let's see if Apple will ship Matte Retina MBP with Haswell next year. That would be a good upgrade for me.

I hate to break it to you, but apple won't make a matte retina display...

 

[zerotiu]

It doesn't make the screen bad because personal preferences.. I'm wondering if each macrumors member shares their personal preference *facepalm*

 

[Beta Particle]

Actually, glare is a significantly worse problem on matte displays compared with glossy displays. Glossy displays typically manage to avoid glare altogether, but do so at the cost of having hard specular reflections rather than diffused reflections.

With a matte screen, any bright light source that hits the display, affects the entire display. With a glossy screen, only the small area that is reflecting the light source is affected.

Matte screen coatings are an additional layer on top of the LCD glass, that also adds speckling/grain to the image and reduces sharpness of the display.

Notice how the matte LCD (left) is significantly more affected by reflections than the glossy one, and contrast over the entire display is reduced significantly.


Without being bonded to the glass, as you have with the iPhone and Sony's Televisions, having a sheet of glass over the display as you had with previous MacBook Pro models, was a big problem, as it introduced double reflections that reduce contrast and clarity of the display. (though it offered good protection and made them easy to clean)

Not putting anything over the LCD glass with the Retina MacBook Pro, is better for image quality.


What I'd much rather see next year instead of a matte option, would be a "high resolution" 3360×2100 retina display. (4× 1680×1050, rather than 1440×900)

The standard 1440×900 "retina" resolution just doesn't offer enough workspace for me, and there's a noticeable reduction in image quality when using the scaled 1680×1050 or 1920×1200 resolutions.

 

[Bradllez]

Cool story.

 

[eba]

Given all the posts here by folks touting the RD as the greatest technological achievement since the semiconductor - unabashed gushing like "everything looks better" or "everyone needs one" - there's certainly nothing wrong with someone injecting a little objectivity into the mix.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Given all the posts here by folks touting the RD as the greatest technological achievement since the semiconductor - unabashed gushing like "everything looks better" or "everyone needs one" - there's certainly nothing wrong with someone injecting a little objectivity into the mix.

Nothing wrong with objectivity, but a "review" that proclaims "...the glare annoyed me" is by definition, subjective.

 

[blow45]

Given all the posts here by folks touting the RD as the greatest technological achievement since the semiconductor - unabashed gushing like "everything looks better" or "everyone needs one" - there's certainly nothing wrong with someone injecting a little objectivity into the mix.

fair point. People shouldn't be jumping all over the guy. Matte and glass introduce problems of their own, namely grain on one hand and glare on the other. From what I can tell the rmbp's screen still uses untreated glass, albeit as part of the screen, so the glare issue hasn't been resolved as rumored, just made better. One is justified in saying they 'd rather go with matte instead. As one is justified in saying they prefer some glare and more well defined text and images with the glass. Unless apple introduce some of the very high end tech available at the moment that reduces glare to .something there is always a decision on the compromise to be made. For me the most foolish choice at the moment would be the glassy mbp, the worst of all worlds, both glary as sin and non retina.

 

[bluesteel]

Actually, glare is a significantly worse problem on matte displays compared with glossy displays. Glossy displays typically manage to avoid glare altogether, but do so at the cost of having hard specular reflections rather than diffused reflections.

are you serious? i have several of both, and there is virtually no glare/reflections on a matte screen macbook pro compared to the glossy screen....glossy is the one with more glare/reflections, a lot more glare.

 

[Doc69]

Actually, glare is a significantly worse problem on matte displays compared with glossy displays. Glossy displays typically manage to avoid glare altogether, but do so at the cost of having hard specular reflections rather than diffused reflections.

You must be joking? Have you ever used a matte display? There is NO annoying glare on a matte display. Perhaps technically, light is also reflected on a matte display, but it's so diffused that you don't notice it under real world conditions.

A glossy display is ok if you work in a windowless room or if you mainly use your computer to watch movies. However, if you WORK on it for hours on end, matte is the only way to go.

 

[Beta Particle]

are you serious? i have several of both, and there is virtually no glare/reflections on a matte screen macbook pro compared to the glossy screen....glossy is the one with more glare/reflections, a lot more glare.

"Glare" and "Reflections" are not interchangeable terms.

There are three basic ways you can categorise reflections, Diffuse Lambertian (Dl) Specular (S) and Diffuse Haze (Dh)

Glare on a matte LCD is a combination of Diffuse Lambertian (reduced contrast) and Diffuse Haze. (large area of impact, even from point light sources)

The Retina MacBook Pro is primarily affected by specular reflections, lambertian reflections + haze reflections are minimised due to the glossy surface.



Most of the images in your post are of the older MacBook Pros which have an additional pane of glass over the display. (you can tell from the "MacBook Pro" text, and the terrible reflections)

The images at Anandtech show a far more realistic comparison between the display types in more typical usage scenarios (though most people won't have video lights hovering above their notebook while they try to use them)

1. "Glossy" MacBook Pro on the left, Retina MacBook Pro on the right:

Note the significantly reduced intensity of the specular reflections. This is because it's reflecting directly off the LCD glass, rather than having an additional pane of glass over the display with an air-gap in the midddle.

2. Retina MacBook Pro on the left, Matte MacBook Pro on the right:

Note how the Retina MacBook Pro image is significantly higher contrast than the matte display, this is because diffuse reflections in the matte film mean that any light source hitting the screen affects the entire display, making it look washed out, and not just the area of the light source itself.

And look at the amount of glare (haze) over the area where the light is hitting the display. That's far worse affected than the same area on the Retina MacBook Pro. Try reading the menu bar on the matte display, then try reading the Retina display's menu bar.


The only time where a matte display has a possible advantage, is using them outdoors, where you might have a very low contrast, very dull, but usable image, rather than one that is darker with a lot of reflections. In most lighting conditions, the Retina MacBook Pro will look better.

Furthermore, because there is nothing over the front glass of the LCD, I am quite sure that there will be third-parties offering matte films for the Retina MacBook Pro.

Unlike trying to put a matte film on an iPad or the older MacBook Pros, this will be no different to any matte Retina MacBook Pro that Apple may or may not release at some point in the future, as all matte LCDs are simply a matte film laid over the LCD glass, and the Retina MacBook Pro surface is the LCD glass.

For example, removal of the film from a matte Dell monitor by soaking the panel with wet paper towels for a few hours:

Source

 

[Trey M]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and glare isn't factual it's subjective to each person. Some people can't stand it others don't mind it that much. It's okay you don't like it, but a lot of people do...

btw your post pissed me off

 

[macNewbie02]

"Glare" and "Reflections" are not interchangeable terms.

There are three basic ways you can categorise reflections, Diffuse Lambertian (Dl) Specular (S) and Diffuse Haze (Dh)
Image

Glare on a matte LCD is a combination of Diffuse Lambertian (reduced contrast) and Diffuse Haze. (large area of impact, even from point light sources)

The Retina MacBook Pro is primarily affected by specular reflections, lambertian reflections + haze reflections are minimised due to the glossy surface.



Most of the images in your post are of the older MacBook Pros which have an additional pane of glass over the display. (you can tell from the "MacBook Pro" text, and the terrible reflections)

The images at Anandtech show a far more realistic comparison between the display types in more typical usage scenarios (though most people won't have video lights hovering above their notebook while they try to use them)

1. "Glossy" MacBook Pro on the left, Retina MacBook Pro on the right:

Note the significantly reduced intensity of the specular reflections. This is because it's reflecting directly off the LCD glass, rather than having an additional pane of glass over the display with an air-gap in the midddle.

2. Retina MacBook Pro on the left, Matte MacBook Pro on the right:

Note how the Retina MacBook Pro image is significantly higher contrast than the matte display, this is because diffuse reflections in the matte film mean that any light source hitting the screen affects the entire display, making it look washed out, and not just the area of the light source itself.

And look at the amount of glare (haze) over the area where the light is hitting the display. That's far worse affected than the same area on the Retina MacBook Pro. Try reading the menu bar on the matte display, then try reading the Retina display's menu bar.


The only time where a matte display has a possible advantage, is using them outdoors, where you might have a very low contrast, very dull, but usable image, rather than one that is darker with a lot of reflections. In most lighting conditions, the Retina MacBook Pro will look better.

Furthermore, because there is nothing over the front glass of the LCD, I am quite sure that there will be third-parties offering matte films for the Retina MacBook Pro.

Unlike trying to put a matte film on an iPad or the older MacBook Pros, this will be no different to any matte Retina MacBook Pro that Apple may or may not release at some point in the future, as all matte LCDs are simply a matte film laid over the LCD glass, and the Retina MacBook Pro surface is the LCD glass.

For example, removal of the film from a matte Dell monitor by soaking the panel with wet paper towels for a few hours:

Source

Do you want to say that the difference between the glossy unibody MBP and the matte unibody MBP is that in the glossy there is a gloss on top of the LCD whereas in the matte they don't have the additional layer of the glass and instead they put on a matt film on top of the LCD? If so, why in the "naked" eye can't we see the film? How do they install them without seeing bubbles?

Thanks for the info.

 

[kdoug]

"Glare" and "Reflections" are not interchangeable terms.

There are three basic ways you can categorise reflections, Diffuse Lambertian (Dl) Specular (S) and Diffuse Haze (Dh)
Image

Glare on a matte LCD is a combination of Diffuse Lambertian (reduced contrast) and Diffuse Haze. (large area of impact, even from point light sources)

The Retina MacBook Pro is primarily affected by specular reflections, lambertian reflections + haze reflections are minimised due to the glossy surface.



Most of the images in your post are of the older MacBook Pros which have an additional pane of glass over the display. (you can tell from the "MacBook Pro" text, and the terrible reflections)

The images at Anandtech show a far more realistic comparison between the display types in more typical usage scenarios (though most people won't have video lights hovering above their notebook while they try to use them)

1. "Glossy" MacBook Pro on the left, Retina MacBook Pro on the right:

Note the significantly reduced intensity of the specular reflections. This is because it's reflecting directly off the LCD glass, rather than having an additional pane of glass over the display with an air-gap in the midddle.

2. Retina MacBook Pro on the left, Matte MacBook Pro on the right:

Note how the Retina MacBook Pro image is significantly higher contrast than the matte display, this is because diffuse reflections in the matte film mean that any light source hitting the screen affects the entire display, making it look washed out, and not just the area of the light source itself.

And look at the amount of glare (haze) over the area where the light is hitting the display. That's far worse affected than the same area on the Retina MacBook Pro. Try reading the menu bar on the matte display, then try reading the Retina display's menu bar.


The only time where a matte display has a possible advantage, is using them outdoors, where you might have a very low contrast, very dull, but usable image, rather than one that is darker with a lot of reflections. In most lighting conditions, the Retina MacBook Pro will look better.

Furthermore, because there is nothing over the front glass of the LCD, I am quite sure that there will be third-parties offering matte films for the Retina MacBook Pro.

Unlike trying to put a matte film on an iPad or the older MacBook Pros, this will be no different to any matte Retina MacBook Pro that Apple may or may not release at some point in the future, as all matte LCDs are simply a matte film laid over the LCD glass, and the Retina MacBook Pro surface is the LCD glass.

For example, removal of the film from a matte Dell monitor by soaking the panel with wet paper towels for a few hours:

Source

Well, obviously Dell isn't making apple monitors because ifixit says the matte display is optically bonded to the LCD, next......
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Unibody-Mid-2010-Matte-Finish-LCD/7257/1

 

[Beta Particle]

Well, obviously Dell isn't making apple monitors because ifixit says the matte display is optically bonded to the LCD, next......
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Unibody-Mid-2010-Matte-Finish-LCD/7257/1

The film is optically bonded on that Dell display as well. All matte LCDs are a standard LCD panel with a matte anti-glare film bonded to the front of the display glass. Soaking the panel for a few hours, as shown above, is enough to loosen the adhesive so that it can be removed.

Not being optically bonded would mean that the film was just resting on top of the glass, or there was an air gap between the film and the display glass.

Because it's just a very thin film on top of the LCD glass (rather than the LCD bonded to a pane of gorilla glass with the iPhone) it's relatively easy to remove the matte film from most LCD panels though.


My point being, that as all matte LCDs are simply a normal LCD panel with a matte film bonded to the surface of the display glass, and the front surface of the Retina MacBook Pro is the display glass itself, so applying a matte film to that display would be no different from what Apple would do if they sold a matte model.


This is different from the older MacBook Pros or an iPad, because they have cover glass that sits over the LCD display panel with an air gap in the middle. Applying a film to the cover glass of those displays puts the film millimeters above the display glass, which is drastically worse than being directly on the display glass as you have with a "matte LCD."

Do you want to say that the difference between the glossy unibody MBP and the matte unibody MBP is that in the glossy there is a gloss on top of the LCD whereas in the matte they don't have the additional layer of the glass and instead they put on a matt film on top of the LCD? If so, why in the "naked" eye can't we see the film? How do they install them without seeing bubbles?

Thanks for the info.

That is exactly what I'm saying. The "glossy" MacBook Pros had an uncoated LCD panel under a pane of cover glass (very glossy/reflective) which is why they suffered so terribly in bright conditions.

The matte MacBook Pro removed the cover glass, and had a matte film bonded to the front of the display glass.

I don't know what the process is for applying the matte film at the factory, but they would be using some sort of liquid adhesive, and clearly they have perfected the process of not having any bubbles/dust between the film and the display.

There is no such thing as a "matte LCD panel", it's an LCD with a matte film bonded to the surface.

Because the surface of the LCD glass is exposed with the Retina MacBook Pro, the results of putting a matte film on the display will be dramatically better than putting a matte film on an iPad, previous MacBook Pros etc.

 

[ethana]

Beta Particle - Very informative. Thank you so much for this information. I never knew. Now it makes sense why Apple doesn't offer matte anymore as an option.