15" MacBook Pro (SB) Thermal application/guide

[daneoni]

This thread has scared the crap out of me. I plan to get a 15" MBP base, should I hold out, or will this never be fixed? I'm definitely NOT going to be tearing down my MBP... What's the deal here? Should I wait?

Waiting will solve nothing. This is how MBPs have been assembled all the way back to the Core Duo models. Blame chinese mass production.

another nooby observ here... what are those pill-shaped things on the logic board with a "+" sign on them?

i counted 24 of those on the 2011 mbp logic board, compared to only 14 on the mid-2010 mbp.

while i am at it, i am also curious about those grey-colored cubes right next to the cpu. user tilezzz has an "SCR" sticker on one of them. i counted 4 of those right next to the cpu on the 2011 mbp, compared to just 2 on the mid-2010.

i am just fascinated by these photos, btw.

any engineer care to answer?

iFixit has hi-res pictures of their disassembly and usually label components too.

If i were to guess (not an engineer) they are capacitors. as for the SCR...i think more info here

 

[namethisfile]

This thread has scared the crap out of me. I plan to get a 15" MBP base, should I hold out, or will this never be fixed? I'm definitely NOT going to be tearing down my MBP... What's the deal here? Should I wait?

not sure why reapplying thermal paste is necessary either. is it because:

a) divert potential overheating down the road, as implied by ifixit?

or

b) instantly lower running temperature of cpu/computer as noted in this
thread.

or

c) because it's fun and geeky to open up the macbook pro and show how a real pro applies thermal paste?

or

d) not sure.

 

[brentsg]

It's got nothing to do with danger or damage. People that are capable of doing this know that they can drop temps by 10C, so they do. In the era of turbo, any headroom you gain is a potential performance gain. Plus, the 10C might be the difference between an audible fan and silence.

This is really nothing new. Computer manufacturers have been doing a sloppy job applying thermal paste since day one. It's just that Apple is really pushing the envelope with thermals and form factor so every little bit counts.

 

[namethisfile]

right. sort of reminds me of how car guys and girls fine tune their cars.

 

[namethisfile]

iFixit has hi-res pictures of their disassembly and usually label components too.

If i were to guess (not an engineer) they are capacitors. as for the SCR...i think more info here

ok. interesting. the 2011 mbp's logic board seems to be a lot denser with more capacitors and SCR's than the previous model.

 

[namethisfile]

This is really nothing new. Computer manufacturers have been doing a sloppy job applying thermal paste since day one. It's just that Apple is really pushing the envelope with thermals and form factor so every little bit counts.

do you think the current mbp design is pushing the thermals with the quad cores and amd gpu?

from what i have gathered around the net, the previous model (mid-2010) used the first gen icores with 35 watts and ~23 watts for the Geforce 330M for a total of ~58 watts for the cpu+gpu.

the current 2011 mbp has a 45 watts quadcore and ~25 watts amd 6750 for a total of ~70 watts for the cpu+gpu.

that's an increase of ~20 watts in the same enclosure.

is that something to be concerned about? or will the mbp handle it fine?

i guess a good indication would be to get the total cpu+gpu wattage of previous mbp's and even powerbooks to see if the increase wattage of the 2011 mbp's will hold up.

ie, i am typing this on a 12" powerbook* and i feel like apple pushed the thermal envelope then and my powerbook is still going strong for 8 yrs now.

*i have a mid-2010 mbp but prefer the powerbook for bed-puting. fits my chest better. lol.

 

[brentsg]

is that something to be concerned about? or will the mbp handle it fine?

I haven't gone through and counted the watts, but I think it's fine. This generation might have a tendency to be a touch less civilized than previous, with a warmer chasis and the occasional bit of fan noise. I definitely think it's a bit early to be making this call though.

But honestly, I think it's always been like this.. at least for unibody. My early '08 kicks the fans up pretty good if I try to do anything difficult.

I should probably go read a bit more about the turbo modes, but I think this concept is designed to utilize previously wasted potential. In theory this technology should ensure that the thermal envelope is being stretched as much as possible.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The TP is not going to melt away and onto your logic board, but eventually will need to be replaced. Usually that equals the life of your computer, unless you take it apart/break the seal in which you will need to apply a new layer.

Paste yes. I am a fan of thermal compound which does not go bad after a while. Now draw back to the compounds is they get hard and will pretty much glue the CPU to the heat sink after a little while of burning in. Of the 4 times I have pulled of my heat sink over the years every time the CPU would come with it then I would have to pry the CPU off of the heat sink. It takes about a week to get that point.

^ How much thermal paste did you put on your's?

If memory serves me the correct amount is about the size of a grain of rice. I am a fan of put it the center then let the heat sink spread it out. On desktops I do that then twist the heat sink back and forth a few times followed by locking it down.

Word of warning on AS5 it is conductive so on GPU make sure all of it stays on the silicon other wise you will short out the system.

 

[frijec]

Thinking of doing this on my mbp when I get it next week. Just need the correct tools.

But then again, I want to change the HDD to SSD later and put a normal HDD in the opticalbay too, so I will need the tools.

 

[fr4c]

If memory serves me the correct amount is about the size of a grain of rice. I am a fan of put it the center then let the heat sink spread it out. On desktops I do that then twist the heat sink back and forth a few times followed by locking it down.

Word of warning on AS5 it is conductive so on GPU make sure all of it stays on the silicon other wise you will short out the system.

A application about the size of a grain of rice should suffice, and you can "wiggle" the heatsink on the MacBook Pro just a bit before you screw it down. By the way AS5 is capacitive not conductive, but you should still keep if off the chips. Users shouldn't have to worry about this if they apply the thermal compound correctly (amount, spread, etc.)

Thinking of doing this on my mbp when I get it next week. Just need the correct tools.

But then again, I want to change the HDD to SSD later and put a normal HDD in the opticalbay too, so I will need the tools.

http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/266sets.htm

What I use now, and when I worked for the mothership.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well I'm going into Apple this morning and see what is up. I'm running 63 C pretty much at idle and that just seems too high from my 2010 model with same drives and configuration . I will give a little for the quads with heat but the 2010 box was about 48C. This is just bugging me, worst case i will go ahead and redo the thermal paste. Like to know where you folks are getting the AS5.

I do have a Fry's electronics store here in Phoenix and any other tools one may need would be helpful. Thanks

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I do have a question after redoing this how long should the unit sit and cure before turning it back on and getting to work.

 

[fr4c]

I do have a question after redoing this how long should the unit sit and cure before turning it back on and getting to work.

You can use it right away; AS5 requires about 200 hours of thermal cycles/use to properly settle. I'm not sure if Fry's carries AS5, but you can order it from Amazon or Newegg for about $10. There's other TC you can use as well if you prefer (Ceramique, MX-2/3, Shin-Etsu).

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thank you just watched a video at Newegg on how to apply AS5. Looks pretty easy

 

[ninja2000]

do you think the current mbp design is pushing the thermals with the quad cores and amd gpu?

from what i have gathered around the net, the previous model (mid-2010) used the first gen icores with 35 watts and ~23 watts for the Geforce 330M for a total of ~58 watts for the cpu+gpu.

the current 2011 mbp has a 45 watts quadcore and ~25 watts amd 6750 for a total of ~70 watts for the cpu+gpu.

that's an increase of ~20 watts in the same enclosure.

is that something to be concerned about? or will the mbp handle it fine?

i guess a good indication would be to get the total cpu+gpu wattage of previous mbp's and even powerbooks to see if the increase wattage of the 2011 mbp's will hold up.

ie, i am typing this on a 12" powerbook* and i feel like apple pushed the thermal envelope then and my powerbook is still going strong for 8 yrs now.

*i have a mid-2010 mbp but prefer the powerbook for bed-puting. fits my chest better. lol.

I have been monitoring both a 2010 and 2011 mbp 17 with a Kilowatt meter.

The 2010 on heavy load (gaming in windows with OCed 330m @ 650/950) is between 70-75watts.
The 2011 on heavy load (again gaming in windows with stock 6750) is 80-85watts.
What I have also noticed is the turbo kicks in a 3ghz on 8threads loaded but as temps rise to 80+ degrees its drops down to 2.6ghz and the fans ramp up.

Finally, I have found for gaming I dont need anywhere near 2.6-3ghz so I lock my cpu to 2.2ghz and whilst gaming I only draw 55-60watts and the temps are much better than my 2010 mbp17 yet I still get great fps in all my games

 

[Rodimus Prime]

You can use it right away; AS5 requires about 200 hours of thermal cycles/use to properly settle. I'm not sure if Fry's carries AS5, but you can order it from Amazon or Newegg for about $10. There's other TC you can use as well if you prefer (Ceramique, MX-2/3, Shin-Etsu).

I would like to add that generally speaking you see the temp keep going down as it cures. Once it is cured tends to glue the heat sink down.

A application about the size of a grain of rice should suffice, and you can "wiggle" the heatsink on the MacBook Pro just a bit before you screw it down. By the way AS5 is capacitive not conductive, but you should still keep if off the chips. Users shouldn't have to worry about this if they apply the thermal compound correctly (amount, spread, etc.)

It might be AS3 I was thinking of. It was a silver color that I used and I knew that was conductive and was a big warning that Arctic Silver put on it telling you that it is that way. Not that it is an issue with any CPU that has a heat spreader like the intel 'i' lines.
It has been a while and either way it is good practice to keep the thermal compound OFF of the metal parts of the chips any how because no point to risk it.

 

[stylinexpat]

Thank you just watched a video at Newegg on how to apply AS5. Looks pretty easy

Gotta a link to that video?

 

[MadMac84]

I have been monitoring both a 2010 and 2011 mbp 17 with a Kilowatt meter.

The 2010 on heavy load (gaming in windows with OCed 330m @ 650/950) is between 70-75watts.
The 2011 on heavy load (again gaming in windows with stock 6750) is 80-85watts.
What I have also noticed is the turbo kicks in a 3ghz on 8threads loaded but as temps rise to 80+ degrees its drops down to 2.6ghz and the fans ramp up.

Finally, I have found for gaming I dont need anywhere near 2.6-3ghz so I lock my cpu to 2.2ghz and whilst gaming I only draw 55-60watts and the temps are much better than my 2010 mbp17 yet I still get great fps in all my games

How do you lock the CPU frequency and keep it from throttling?

 

[kappaknight]

It might be AS3 I was thinking of. It was a silver color that I used and I knew that was conductive and was a big warning that Arctic Silver put on it telling you that it is that way. Not that it is an issue with any CPU that has a heat spreader like the intel 'i' lines.
It has been a while and either way it is good practice to keep the thermal compound OFF of the metal parts of the chips any how because no point to risk it.

How come no one here has talked about MX-3 and MX-4 thermal pastes? I just ordered some MX-4 from Amazon and from the reviews, it seems to perform better than AS.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/986/pg2/arctic-mx-4-thermal-paste-review-thermal-compound.html

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Gotta a link to that video?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

BTW went to Apple genius bar. Showed him my system and its temps and pretty much said i am in line with the quad core machines they will run warm and he compared my 2010 I7 duo to the quads in terms of a VW engine compared to a Hemi. Also ran a raw processing program for him that uses all four cores and he watched it all spin up and than spin back down and said I am right in line and basically don't go by last years model duo. I am running right at 62C with mail and safari on. Also had him check if stuff was running in the background and I am all clean. Also we talked about all that is connected here as well a NEC30 inch monitor , Firewire drives and USB and they all create heat.

I will see how it goes but still may do this procedure anyway just to please myself.

 

[brentsg]

It does not seem that you should be idling at 62C. I think he's full of %^#$.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I know still questioning it.

 

[alphaod]

So, what do you think, is it aluminum, or not?

As I already replied to your PM, for everyone else's benefit…

Do not reapply the thermal paste under those heatsinks. They are for better or worse nothing more than just a cover; the gap between those piece of metal and the chips is about .5mm so you can only use thermal pads or if you must use thermal paste, you need a mesh to enforce it.

If you try to put more than a thin layer of thermal paste in that space you are probably doing more harm than good; I had to order replacement thermal pads to replace the one I removed out of ignorance.

Word of warning on AS5 it is conductive so on GPU make sure all of it stays on the silicon other wise you will short out the system.

AS5 is capacitive, not conductive.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I just read this whole thread and feel pretty confident this can be done pretty easily for me and just ordered all the stuff needed. Another stupid question though. Do you have to remove the fans or can you leave them in. My other question is I guess just finding all the screws attached to the frame itself.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Here is what I am seeing in the images posted. Highlighted by red