15” MBA — any reports on PWM, dithering, and eye or brain sensitivity?

[Saturn007]

Was looking for reports about the 15” MBA display and those with vision or headache sensitivities. Anyone seen one online or have personal experiences they can report?

Would be especially interested in hearing from MacRumors users who have had sensitivity to PWM (or dithering) on other Mac laptops. What's been your experience with the 15”?

I realize it has a similar display panel to the 13”, but there are still often idiosyncrasies in them that can affect users.

Also waiting for Notebook Check's report on the 15“, so please let us know here if you discover it's been posted.

Thanks!

 

[IJBrekke]

Mine arrived today and I haven’t yet opened, but I will definitely be reporting back on this. Neither the 13” M2 MBA or the 14” MBP worked for me due to variations of eye fatigue and pain.

 

[lbass]

The M1 air or M1/M2 13" Pro work best for me.

The MacBook Pros are the worst (laptop wise, but not as bad as the oled iPhones).

I found the M2 13" air somewhere in the middle. One day of use of the 15" and I have nausea and migraines. The 15" isn't as bad as the pros, but slightly worse than the 13".

And on a random note. I have the studio display with the matte texture. I can work on it all day without problems.

 

[IJBrekke]

Update: I only set up and used it for about 30 minutes tonight, but by all accounts it appears to have the exact same screen as the 13” M2 Air. That means it likely will not work for me, but I intend to give it a more thorough test drive in the coming days.

The feeling I get from using these M2-based screens is similar to staring into a flashlight. No matter how low I turn the brightness, it always happens over a long enough period of time. But it never happened on Intel-based Macs.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I didn't seem to have any headaches with the 13" M2 MacBook Air, however I did immediately pick up on some sensitivity when trying the 15" MacBook Air at an Apple Store. I'm not sure if this is due to my becoming accustomed to the 14" MacBook Pro, which has a Mini LED display that definitely causes headaches for me. On the other hand, the display looked great and exceeded my expectations for contrast and color upon first impression.

The plan was to sell my 14" MacBook Pro due to the surprising PWM sensitivity despite its relatively high rate and get the 15" MacBook Air, so it would be puzzling if that also caused any sort of sensitivity. I believe that I'm only sensitive to PWM, and not dithering or any other possible issues.

 

[jimmy_uk]

The M1 air or M1/M2 13" Pro work best for me.

The MacBook Pros are the worst (laptop wise, but not as bad as the oled iPhones).

I found the M2 13" air somewhere in the middle. One day of use of the 15" and I have nausea and migraines. The 15" isn't as bad as the pros, but slightly worse than the 13".

And on a random note. I have the studio display with the matte texture. I can work on it all day without problems.

I've read more posts about people having issues with the M1 Air. And I have two Studio Displays at work (non matte) and I'm struggling with them. The first day was eye strain and headache city. This has subsided now (a week later) but my focus feels off. The variations on all these displays is crazy!

 

[Saturn007]

I didn't seem to have any headaches with the 13" M2 MacBook Air, however I did immediately pick up on some sensitivity when trying the 15" MacBook Air at an Apple Store.

Wonder if that’s due to the bright lighting in the Apple Store…

Do they use overhead LEDs? Perhaps True Tone or the auto-adjustable brightness does weird things under overhead LEDs.

Those issues might not be a problem at at home… Let's hope so!

Thanks to all who have chimed in so far. Quite helpful. Please post more as you have more time with the 15”.

Hope others will chime in, too.

 

[hajime]

Is the Air series causing headache to some users? I got a 15" yesterday. Tried for a few hours and got headache. Not sure if they were related. However, don't have a headache today so far.

 

[Harmonious Zen]

For whatever it's worth, I had this issue with the MBPs, but I've been happily using a 13" MBA M2 for a while with no issues.

 

[bill-p]

Was looking for reports about the 15” MBA display and those with vision or headache sensitivities. Anyone seen one online or have personal experiences they can report?

Been about 48 hours now. No headache. Much more pleasant to look at than my 14". Texts are big and sharp, with massively more space for me to place apps. I'm selling the 14" for sure!

 

[Saturn007]

Notebook Check review is out.

They found no PWM on the 15” MBA.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...eryday-MacBook-now-in-15-inches.726811.0.html

Fastest way to get to those results is to search for “screen flickering” on that web page. (If you search for PWM, you end up having to jump through several hits before getting to the substance.)

 

[Saturn007]

Anyone seen any issues with the color dithering (FRC or whatever it's called)?

Or, other sources of eye strain, especially compared to the M2 13” MBA?

 

[Saturn007]

Bumping this in the hopes of seeing more reports about the 15" MBA's display and eye comfort.

How are you finding the display after weeks of use? Getting any strain? How does it compare to other Mac laptops you've used?

What resolution have you settled on? The default one -- or some other? Has that helped or hurt eye comfort?

 

[arcite]

From a weeks use, I'd say the new 15 air has a slightly more glossy screen than the old 2015 13 air.

This could cause eye strain if there are reflections. I turned off Font Smoothing, which for me greatly increased readability. Otherwise, I enjoy the better color reproduction. The 60hz screen doesn't bother me, videos look fine. Sure....it's noticeable during scrolling, but no big deal.

I do notice the view angle variations with the larger screen. Details can look ever so slightly distorted if you're not directly centered. But again, not a big deal.

The 15 AIr lcd is head and shoulders above most other brands in similar price points.

I wear glasses.... so I'm sensitive to eyestrain, but I have no issues so far with the new 15 air. I'm still messing with font sizing/resolution combinations to find the best fit. The 15inch screen offers a lot of real estate.

 

[motulist]

the new 15 air has a slightly more glossy screen

This is a great point. I still often use an ancient MBP because it has a matte screen. ALL of the so-called "anti-glare" screens have distracting reflections and cause eye strain.

 

[dizmonk]

Bumping this in the hopes of seeing more reports about the 15" MBA's display and eye comfort.

How are you finding the display after weeks of use? Getting any strain? How does it compare to other Mac laptops you've used?

What resolution have you settled on? The default one -- or some other? Has that helped or hurt eye comfort?

I was using my M1 14 Pro for almost a year. I got the 15 to try out and went back and forth between the two. The 14 hurt my eyes a lot after using the 15. I then sold it and am likely to stick with the 15. I do wonder about the 16 though.

 

[arnolds1]

Interesting that you ask - comparing to the 16-inch M1 MBP, I find the 15" MBA's display causing bit more eye strain. This is odd since the MBA apparently doesn't have PWM - so I don't know why, but I am finding the MBA's display a bit worse off than the M1 MBP.

As IJBrekke mentioned, I never had this problem with the Intel Macbooks - there is something inherently different either with the new MacOS font rendering techniques or the screens on the Apple Silicon Macbooks (which I am 100% sure are built by different suppliers than the ones that built the ones for the older Intel Macbooks).

 

[jimmy_uk]

Interesting that you ask - comparing to the 16-inch M1 MBP, I find the 15" MBA's display causing bit more eye strain. This is odd since the MBA apparently doesn't have PWM - so I don't know why, but I am finding the MBA's display a bit worse off than the M1 MBP.

As IJBrekke mentioned, I never had this problem with the Intel Macbooks - there is something inherently different either with the new MacOS font rendering techniques or the screens on the Apple Silicon Macbooks (which I am 100% sure are built by different suppliers than the ones that built the ones for the older Intel Macbooks).

Throw in the screen lottery and dithering as well.

I cannot use any OLED iPhone and it seems I also now have an issue with the LCD iPads. I am most certainly sensitive to PWM but it looks like dithering is also an issue for me. For example: While I couldn't use the iPhone 11 in the past, as it strained my eyes, the one I own now (through necessity) is 100% fine - I got lucky. When I've tried to use any iPad Pro since 2018, my eyes sting and strain but I recently spent a few good days using my friend's iPP12.9" 2020, which has PWM, and this was fine 🤷‍♂️.

I read people mentioning strain with the M1 and M2 MBA here + reddit and Apple forums, I also read comments from those who are usually sensitive and they have no issues. There has to be a screen lottery in effect (calibration, different manufacturers etc) + the 8-bit + FRC to fake 10-bit P3 colour gamut. It most certainly makes me pause on a £2k purchase with the MBA 15".

 

[dizmonk]

Interesting that you ask - comparing to the 16-inch M1 MBP, I find the 15" MBA's display causing bit more eye strain. This is odd since the MBA apparently doesn't have PWM - so I don't know why, but I am finding the MBA's display a bit worse off than the M1 MBP.

As IJBrekke mentioned, I never had this problem with the Intel Macbooks - there is something inherently different either with the new MacOS font rendering techniques or the screens on the Apple Silicon Macbooks (which I am 100% sure are built by different suppliers than the ones that built the ones for the older Intel Macbooks).

Do you have any access to or see any difference with a 14" MBP?

 

[arnolds1]

Do you have any access to or see any difference with a 14" MBP?

Nope, I don't have a 14" MBP - so can't compare with it.

 

[novagamer]

Throw in the screen lottery and dithering as well.

I cannot use any OLED iPhone and it seems I also now have an issue with the LCD iPads. I am most certainly sensitive to PWM but it looks like dithering is also an issue for me. For example: While I couldn't use the iPhone 11 in the past, as it strained my eyes, the one I own now (through necessity) is 100% fine - I got lucky. When I've tried to use any iPad Pro since 2018, my eyes sting and strain but I recently spent a few good days using my friend's iPP12.9" 2020, which has PWM, and this was fine 🤷‍♂️.

I read people mentioning strain with the M1 and M2 MBA here + reddit and Apple forums, I also read comments from those who are usually sensitive and they have no issues. There has to be a screen lottery in effect (calibration, different manufacturers etc) + the 8-bit + FRC to fake 10-bit P3 colour gamut. It most certainly makes me pause on a £2k purchase with the MBA 15".

Try turning off FaceID Attention Awareness,, it's under accessibility -> Face ID & Attention. Toggle everything in there off. It took me months to realize it was the constant bombardment of the Face ID sensors that were scanning for attention all the time that were completely messing with my eyes. Now OLED Phones are not a problem, and I can use Face ID to unlock etc. without an issue.

The fact that you have this issue with iPads makes this somewhat likely it also affects you the same way, I had the same issue with an M1 iPad Pro which led me down this path of discovery.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Try turning off FaceID Attention Awareness,, it's under accessibility -> Face ID & Attention. Toggle everything in there off. It took me months to realize it was the constant bombardment of the Face ID sensors that were scanning for attention all the time that were completely messing with my eyes. Now OLED Phones are not a problem, and I can use Face ID to unlock etc. without an issue.

The fact that you have this issue with iPads makes this somewhat likely it also affects you the same way, I had the same issue with an M1 iPad Pro which led me down this path of discovery.

It's good advice but I do this as soon as I setup a device and reduce motion as well as turn off true tone. 🤷‍♂️ I try all the other "fixes" like reduce white point etc but have zero joy. The fact people have issues with Macbooks, including iPad Airs, iPad 10, iPad Mini 6, iPhone 8+ and SE which don't have face ID, points to dithering and screen lottery to me. Seems it started when they aimed for P3 colour gamut.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Had my 15" MBA for a week or so and the display does cause me eye strain. I think it's because text looks a bit fuzzy at the default resolution. Pointing my iPhone camera at it shows there's some kind of weird scaling or sharpening artifact where text has a slight halo, almost like a cartoon outline. It goes away if you set the resolution to 1440 x 932 but you lose some of the benefit of the 15" screen real estate if you do that.

 

[novagamer]

It's good advice but I do this as soon as I setup a device and reduce motion as well as turn off true tone. 🤷‍♂️ I try all the other "fixes" like reduce white point etc but have zero joy. The fact people have issues with Macbooks, including iPad Airs, iPad 10, iPad Mini 6, iPhone 8+ and SE which don't have face ID, points to dithering and screen lottery to me. Seems it started when they aimed for P3 colour gamut.

Yeah, some of the older devices were very hit-or-miss, I had a 24" LED Cinema that gave me this problem but only with specific brightness settings, about half of them were totally fine. My 2012 Retina MBP was the best glossy screen I've ever had as far as motion blur on Macs prior to Apple Silicon, but the 2015 Retina MBP screen I got was absolute garbage and text was unreadable when scrolling. I also had to return a 23" Cinema many many years ago due to image retention after 4 RMAs. Apple does not have a wonderful history with displays for me personally.

I have a 16" Intel MBP that is pretty good and rarely bothers me at all, I'm kind of scared to upgrade it actually after reading some of these comments about the Mini LED Screens, I thought they'd be much better.

Had my 15" MBA for a week or so and the display does cause me eye strain. I think it's because text looks a bit fuzzy at the default resolution. Pointing my iPhone camera at it shows there's some kind of weird scaling or sharpening artifact where text has a slight halo, almost like a cartoon outline. It goes away if you set the resolution to 1440 x 932 but you lose some of the benefit of the 15" screen real estate if you do that.

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Using native 2x scaling is an absolute must IMO in casual scenarios, but you're right it does greatly decrease screen real-estate on the 15" MBA. I switch between them depending on what I'm doing, general web browsing etc. is fine at native 2x IMO, but I'm on a 16" MBP so I get a bit more pixels.

I was pining for a 15" MBA to use as a dedicated computer for Obsidian & web browsing, but I'm definitely re-thinking that now.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Using native 2x scaling is an absolute must IMO in casual scenarios, but you're right it does greatly decrease screen real-estate on the 15" MBA. I switch between them depending on what I'm doing, general web browsing etc. is fine at native 2x IMO, but I'm on a 16" MBP so I get a bit more pixels.

I was pining for a 15" MBA to use as a dedicated computer for Obsidian & web browsing, but I'm definitely re-thinking that now.

I hear you. I will likely end up returning my 15" MBA because of it (not the only reason - I can't get used to the weird acceleration curve on the trackpad either).

Surprisingly, the 14" MBP M2 doesn't show this same sharpening artefact at similar non-2x scaled resolutions, so I think it may be a limitation of the scaler in the base M2 chip used by the Air, and the M2 Pro and Max chips may have fixed the issue since the M2 was designed.