15" MBP: Buy or wait?

[Dave245]

I don't know actually. I think what this depends on really, is how well the 2016MBP is due versus their own projected sales. If its meeting Apple's own expectations then what you predict is likely. If however as many suspect the 2016 models are not selling great and the 2015 continues to sell well, then I think we could see more drastic changes sooner. The other possibility is a price drop at some time. I personally would not buy now all things considered. If my existing machine died tomorrow however, I would buy a refurb 2015 model as my first preference.

You could be right, but after what Phil Schiller said during the Mac Pro meeting with the press Apple are happy with how the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar has been selling

"Obviously, as you know, we just did a very major update to the MacBook Pro line. That’s going very well. Customers absolutely love it, we’ve had a lot of customers buying them. Big numbers, as I said, 20 percent growth year over year. We’re very proud of those products; we know there’s feedback on things that can be done better on them. There’s things that we want to do better on them. We know they matter to our pro customers, and we have every intention to advance that Mac Book Pro line in the years ahead and make it better and better for our core customers, but we think we’re off to a good start there."

The Touch Bar was mentioned later in the interview

"We think we’re off to a good start with the Touch Bar. That it is intuitive for everybody in general and specifically does give some incredible capabilities for pro users. And as we’ve started to see more and more adoption in pro apps, our own – obviously Logic supports it, as does Final Cut and third-party apps have done a real good job starting to support it. We’re seeing some really brilliant uses of it.

And we think that this is a good path that we’re on. The opportunity to integrate touch where it can most add additional value in the Mac experience is the smart way to go, just as we’ve made the trackpad better at gestures and a really smooth, intuitive experience. We think that’s a great place to go with touch and that’s what the Touch Bar is. We’re still going to learn a lot more. It hasn’t been that long that it’s been out there and we’re still trying to learn and gather data from customers – research mostly and a lot of different interview with customers and we’re going to learn. And we think, if we’re right, this is a great direction for the Mac."

I don't think the 2016 MacBook Pro has been as much doom and gloom as it's been made out on the negative posts and threads on these kinds of forums, the average user may be enjoying them. It seems Apple is happy with the numbers at least.

 

[maflynn]

then I think we could see more drastic changes sooner.

Agreed, if this fall rolls around and we only see a spec bump and nothing else, then we can infer that Apple is happy with the state of its hardware/sales/profit margins

The other possibility is a price drop at some time

I think this can and may happen. The sooner the better. One of the major metrics I use is whether I'm getting value for my money, a lower price helps that equation

 

[8692574]

I wonder why the majority says wait... people cannot really expect a price drop... especially if the MacBook is the new trend, as secondo version cost as much as the first, they cannot expect a usb A, as Apple has been quite clear on that, they cannot expect an update, i mean october mich see a speed bump..

So why wait? (i am not criticizing) but asking...

 

[Dave245]

I wonder why the majority says wait... people cannot really expect a price drop... especially if the MacBook is the new trend, as secondo version cost as much as the first, they cannot expect a usb A, as Apple has been quite clear on that, they cannot expect an update, i mean october mich see a speed bump..

So why wait? (i am not criticizing) but asking...

According to the very reliable Ming-Chi there will be a price drop, which makes sense since Apple usually does this the year after a redesigned Mac hardware.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/31/2017-macbook-pro-rumors/

 

[maflynn]

So why wait? (i am not criticizing) but asking...

If you don't need the computer now, then CW (Conventional Wisdom) advocates waiting. Even if its a minor spec bump, then you get the kaby lake processor. Waiting also helps in that Apple should correct some of the bugs/short comings that are being reported with the current model, so that will be a plus as well.

 

[8692574]

According to the very reliable Ming-Chi there will be a price drop, which makes sense since Apple usually does this the year after a redesigned Mac hardware.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/31/2017-macbook-pro-rumors/

I get that, but it did not happen with the MacBook...

If you don't need the computer now, then CW (Conventional Wisdom) advocates waiting. Even if its a minor spec bump, then you get the kaby lake processor. Waiting also helps in that Apple should correct some of the bugs/short comings that are being reported with the current model, so that will be a plus as well.

As much as I understand....you could be waiting forever...as 1 update cycles are very strange... especially for Apple, and 2 there's always something better next release.

considering we hare newar "halfway" the supposed cycle.....

Yeah if you do not need you can wait, but if you do not need you can also not buy at all

 

[Dave245]

I get that, but it did not happen with the MacBook...

That's not the MacBook Pro, the MacBook may get a price drop further down the line but what Ming-Chi is talking about is the MacBook Pro.

 

[8692574]

That's not the MacBook Pro, the MacBook may get a price drop further down the line but what Ming-Chi is talking about is the MacBook Pro.

I got that, I was referring to the fact that it is general wisdom that normally after gen 1 the price is lowered on the next iteration, while in the case of the MacBook it did not happen....may be a new trend?

 

[leman]

Using a data port to charge a computer is the biggest design flaw that I've seen since the lack of the headphone jack on the iPhone 7 (which is just a month prior to the MBP). If you're on a 13" non-Touch Bar, you have only one available port for peripherals while charging. Dire news indeed, I'd say.

First of all, if you use ports a lot, then probably the non-Touch Bar MBP is not a very good choice (its more oriented towards a regular user anyway). Second, I fail to see a design flaw with charging via USB-C. It gives you more flexibility. You can use ports as data ports, you can use them for charging or you can combine the two functions by using an appropriate peripheral. In the office, I connect to all my desk peripherals + charger with a single cable. The only way to make this more convenient + flexible is going full wireless for both charging and data.

• Colorimeter for calibrating display
• Card readers with built-in cables
• Printer
• Camera tethering (both USB 2.0 mini-B and 3.0 micro-B)
• USB mic
• External enclosures with integrated cable
• Flash drives
• Wireless mouse receiver/drawing tablet
• Ethernet
  
  

So just get a $80 hub that has all these connectors and card readers and be done with it. Again, I have one on my desk. And its not like you could connect all these things to any previous Mac laptop at the same time without using any dongles.

Honestly, you criticism just boils down to "ugh, I need to spend money on a new USB hub". Well, duh. If you are not willing to adapt to a bleeding-edge tech, then don't buy a bleeding edge laptop.

That's the kind of situation professionals are left at. Change comes slow because change is expensive. Money talks, and yes, it is painful to pay money for things with diminishing returns

That's exactly what I was saying. Professional market is reactionary. If the focus of a hardware/software manufacturer is just to maintain the status quo, there would be no change at all. I am fairly sure that without Apple's aggressive stance, we would still run around with 2.5-3.0 kg heavy laptops with HD displays.

 

[maflynn]

As much as I understand....you could be waiting forever...as 1 update cycles are very strange... especially for Apple, and 2 there's always something better next release.

If you don't need a new computer yes, why spend so much money on a product you don't need.

Buy when there's a need and then don't worry about what the future revision may have to offer.


I want a 15" laptop (unsure if I'll get a Dell/Lenovo/HP or MBP), but right now, its just a want and not a need, so I'm holding on to my money.

 

[8692574]

If you don't need a new computer yes, why spend so much money on a product you don't need.

Buy when there's a need and then don't worry about what the future revision may have to offer.


I want a 15" laptop (unsure if I'll get a Dell/Lenovo/HP or MBP), but right now, its just a want and not a need, so I'm holding on to my money.

Well I sold my 11 inches MBA because I sold it really well, without much looking at my options (should have)...

Fact is I can wait a bit, but I am in need of one as right now I have no computer, but I am trying to find the "best" deal.

The 15 is awesome, but expensive, the 13 is right, but battery life scares me.... the base 13 is def better than my 11 MBA but the price difference is not worth, and the MB is definetly underpowered for me..

So the point is .. a 100$ drop and< a 0.1 ghz update in October would be meh.... but of course nobody really knows and the main factor holding me back is also the ddr3 ram.

I would consider a PC, but really I use both OS and prefere Mac OS!

 

[The Mercurian]

You could be right, but after what Phil Schiller said during the Mac Pro meeting with the press Apple are happy with how the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar has been selling

"Obviously, as you know, we just did a very major update to the MacBook Pro line. That’s going very well. Customers absolutely love it, we’ve had a lot of customers buying them. Big numbers, as I said, 20 percent growth year over year. We’re very proud of those products; we know there’s feedback on things that can be done better on them. There’s things that we want to do better on them. We know they matter to our pro customers, and we have every intention to advance that Mac Book Pro line in the years ahead and make it better and better for our core customers, but we think we’re off to a good start there."

The Touch Bar was mentioned later in the interview

"We think we’re off to a good start with the Touch Bar. That it is intuitive for everybody in general and specifically does give some incredible capabilities for pro users. And as we’ve started to see more and more adoption in pro apps, our own – obviously Logic supports it, as does Final Cut and third-party apps have done a real good job starting to support it. We’re seeing some really brilliant uses of it.

And we think that this is a good path that we’re on. The opportunity to integrate touch where it can most add additional value in the Mac experience is the smart way to go, just as we’ve made the trackpad better at gestures and a really smooth, intuitive experience. We think that’s a great place to go with touch and that’s what the Touch Bar is. We’re still going to learn a lot more. It hasn’t been that long that it’s been out there and we’re still trying to learn and gather data from customers – research mostly and a lot of different interview with customers and we’re going to learn. And we think, if we’re right, this is a great direction for the Mac."

I don't think the 2016 MacBook Pro has been as much doom and gloom as it's been made out on the negative posts and threads on these kinds of forums, the average user may be enjoying them. It seems Apple is happy with the numbers at least.

This is just PR/sales talk for the market and investors. I don't believe Phil The Shill. Neither do many others.

But quite apart from that - I was very careful to say projected sales. suppose for a moment 20% growth is true (I doubt it but lets go with it). If they projected 30% growth - they will not be happy and will look to change things. Nobody knows what their projected sales were no matter what anyone on here tells you.

 

[maflynn]

Fact is I can wait a bit, but I am in need of one as right now I have no computer, but I am trying to find the "best" deal.

Sounds like your need is more immediate and waiting until the fall may not be feasible, so yeah buy now then.

 

[TheOkeland]

I want a 15" laptop (unsure if I'll get a Dell/Lenovo/HP or MBP), but right now, its just a want and not a need, so I'm holding on to my money.

Depends on how much performance you need. The current lenovo-models (thinkpads) are i.m.o. completly overpriced. No Quad-Cores, beside the P-Series Thinkpads . Also no Nvidia 10series graphics and they cost about 2.500€ to get MBP-like specs. Dell has a really good price-performance ratio. Quad-Core, GTX 1050 and PCIe SSD for about 1.700€.

 

[Sanpete]

If you're telling me to buy dongles/new wires for all of these, or replace them altogether with nonexistent USB-C/TB3 equivalents, you better be footing the bill for me and all other photogs who are holding off because of Apple's naïveté.

Naïveté? It's naïve to suppose Apple is naïve! If you're a pro who doesn't like to pay for equipment, and you don't want to be able to plug and unplug all at once with a hub as @leman does, it's $5 each to leave tiny adapters (not dongles) on the end of each USB-A cable. That leaves one cheap adapter to get for your ethernet and you're good. That's maybe $50-60 total, in relation to $2500 machine.

I think the resistance to the new MBP is as much emotional as rational. That said, emotions are what makes life great, so there's still the 2015 model with the things some people are so attached to.

This is just PR/sales talk for the market and investors. I don't believe Phil The Shill. Neither do many others.

Lying to investors is a very, very bad idea.

 

[The Mercurian]

Naïveté? It's naïve to suppose Apple is naïve! If you're a pro who doesn't like to pay for equipment, and you don't want to be able to plug and unplug all at once with a hub as @leman does, it's $5 each to leave tiny adapters (not dongles) on the end of each USB-A cable. That leaves one cheap adapter to get for your ethernet and you're good. That's maybe $50-60 total, in relation to $2500 machine.

I think the resistance to the new MBP is as much emotional as rational. That said, emotions are what makes life great, so there's still the 2015 model with the things some people are so attached to.


Lying to investors is a very, very bad idea.

No argument there. But since he didn't tell us how he calculated 20% growth we cannot say he is lying. Its a sufficiently vague statement to be true in particular contexts. For example - he might mean 2016 MBPs. OR he might mean 2015 + 2016 MBPs. Or he might mean 13"s only. We just don't know. Thats the point. It is a vague and unverifiable statement for people who don't have high level access to their numbers. Vague and unverifiable, but also positive and happy and feel-good. High-5s all round. He is also not speaking directly to investors, but perhaps more to prospective investors and prospective customers. Gives folks like our thread starter here the feeling 'yes this machine must be great with 20% growth - I should but it. Gives prospective buyers of shares the feeling - wow 20% growth apple are on the up I should buy them. But its still a vague and unverifiable 20%. That is - its marketing/ PR speak.

 

[aevan]

Here's a couple things that require dongles, with regularly used ones bolded:

• Colorimeter for calibrating display
• Card readers with built-in cables
• Printer
• Camera tethering (both USB 2.0 mini-B and 3.0 micro-B)
• USB mic
• External enclosures with integrated cable
• Flash drives
• Wireless mouse receiver/drawing tablet
• Ethernet

Sure. Before I bought a new BT Intuos, I used a dongle for its wifi receiver. Also I use it for flash drives. I pretty sure cameras can just replace cables for tethering but I get your point.

Still, for me - dongles are just not such a big deal. If it pushes the industry towards something better, I think it's worth it. I mean, you're not expected to lose blood or endure electric shocks, it's just a dongle. For me, it's a non issue. Even if every single device you owned requires a dongle now, it still doesn't seem like a major hardship to me.

 

[Sanpete]

No argument there. But since he didn't tell us how he calculated 20% growth we cannot say he is lying. Its a sufficiently vague statement to be true in particular contexts. For example - he might mean 2016 MBPs. OR he might mean 2015 + 2016 MBPs. Or he might mean 13"s only. We just don't know. Thats the point. It is a vague and unverifiable statement for people who don't have high level access to their numbers. Vague and unverifiable, but also positive and happy and feel-good. High-5s all round. He is also not speaking directly to investors, but perhaps more to prospective investors and prospective customers. Gives folks like our thread starter here the feeling 'yes this machine must be great with 20% growth - I should but it. Gives prospective buyers of shares the feeling - wow 20% growth apple are on the up I should buy them. But its still a vague and unverifiable 20%. That is - its marketing/ PR speak.

He wasn't clear about the details, as you say, but he did tie the 20% figure to the 2016 specifically, "Customers absolutely love it, we’ve had a lot of customers buying them. Big numbers, as I said, 20 percent growth year over year." If he's being misleading there, that could mean trouble.

 

[aevan]

This is just PR/sales talk for the market and investors. I don't believe Phil The Shill. Neither do many others.

Everything is PR talk, but it doesn't mean it's not true. People believe what they want, and if you believe that MacBook Pro is a failure, not even if every proof indicated it's not, it would still not change your mind.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I was going to post some points here then I realised no one wants to listen its the same people spouting the same rubbish at each other with little regard to the OP.

 

[Eason85]

I was going to post some points here then I realised no one wants to listen its the same people spouting the same rubbish at each other with little regard to the OP.

I was wondering what you were referring to when I realized that I've got some certain repetitive robots on ignore

 

[Dave245]

I was wondering what you were referring to when I realized that I've got some certain repetitive robots on ignore

Ignore, is that a new feature?

 

[maflynn]

Still, for me - dongles are just not such a big deal.

Its not a huge deal, but why spend 3k on a machine that offers less connectivity? Yes I can buy a SD card reader and they're not expensive but yet I now need to compromise to make a premium machine work the way I need it too. HDMI, mag-safe. The list increases and based on what others stated the lack mag-safe replacements don't appear to be very good.

 

[8692574]

Ended up with a 15 inches MBP 2016.....

Found a deal on Amazon who has it at 450€ less than Apple so could not really pass that offer...

Scared about battery life, but I can return it if not satisfied.

 

[Dave245]

Ended up with a 15 inches MBP 2016.....

Found a deal on Amazon who has it at 450€ less than Apple so could not really pass that offer...

Scared about battery life, but I can return it if not satisfied.

Nice deal, battery life seems to be different for people, some say that after the last MacOS update it's got better.