15" Retina due for an update?

[skaertus]

But which Windows laptop is catching up to the Retina MacBook Pro at a significant lower price point? I don't see anything on the Windows side announced for the next 6 months that has a screen that's even 75% the pixel count of the 15" rMBP. Just as a note, 1920 x 1080 is just 40% of 2880 x 1800.

None so far. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The Asus Zenbook U500VZ, which has been announced, is probably the closest competitor of the 15" rMBP. It has a quad-core Core i7, a NVIDIA GT 650, an IPS display, up to 512 GB SSD and weighs about the same. However, the screen resolution is still 1920x1080. Prices have not been announced in the U.S. yet, but it is in the range of 1700 euros for the 256 GB configuration and 2000 euros for the 512 GB version. It's just a little lower than Apple is charging for the 15" rMBP. Look at the review here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Zenbook-UX51VZ-U500VZ-Notebook.84246.0.html

I guess new models will be announced in the near future, and some of them with high resolution displays. Perhaps they are announced when Haswell is to be released (understandably, manufacturers will not want to harm their year-end sales even more by announcing better products for the near future).

So far, Apple's pricing is not far off. In fact, it is quite in line with the competition. A Dell XPS 15 with a Core i7-3632QM processor, 8 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD costs US$ 2,299. A 15" Sony Vaio S with a Core i7-3632QM processor, an NVIDIA GT 640M LE graphics card, 12 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD (2x 128 GB) costs US$ 1,899. These laptops are cheaper than a similar rMBP, but by a small margin. And none of them have IPS retina displays.

Even if Apple drops the cMBP, they still have no reason to drop prices on the Retina 15" if people are willing to pay.

I'm sure we had this same discussion about the 13" rMBP... and you know how that one played out.

Apple is not really interested in pleasing everyone. They just want to sell expensive laptops and make a killing.

Yes, that's for sure. As long as people are buying the laptops, Apple will keep selling them at the same price points.

I don't know if the 13" rMBP is selling well, though. All times I've looked at the Amazon.com list of best-selling laptops, the 13" rMBP were nowhere near the top. Despite being a new (and supposedly "hot") product, sales at Amazon.com were lagging behind all 13" cMPBs and 11" and 13" MBAs. Even the 15" rMBP was outselling it. Of course this represents just the sales of one particular store in some specific days in which I looked that into, and tell nothing about what the whole sales are. The 13" rMBP may well be a huge success and a best-seller for Apple. But, if I had to bet, I would say that it is really lagging behind other Apple's offerings. All reviews I read about the product recognized it as a great machine, but complained about the poor value of the laptop. I think this was a misstep for Apple, and it may well fix it in the next refresh (by dropping the price or increasing the specs). Just guessing, though.

 

[calderone]

I think Apple can discontinue the cMBP just fine even if they can't afford to lower the price point of the rMBP, because then people ail



So do I. But I find it extremely unlikely that Apple will drop the price of the 15" rMBP, since:

1) It's generally considered a good value, and a lot of people bought it.

2) Dropping the price of the 15" rMBP even slightly will cannibalize the 13" rMBP, unless Apple significantly drops the price of the 13" rMBP. But if the 13" rMBP drops more than $200, it'll cannibalize MacBook Air. So then Apple will have to drop the price of the MacBook Air as well. And then it's a chain reaction. You're basically asking Apple to restructure their entire pricing tiers.

3) If the unibody MacBooks stick around for a while, then dropping the price of the 15" Retina will also cannibalize them. Same logic as above will apply.

People often utilize the cannibalization argument, I honestly don't buy it. Take a look at the iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone situation. You may say, "Different devices for different needs" to which I respond, isn't it the same situation with the notebooks? Yes, yes it is.

1) Good value today doesn't mean the price has no room to fall. Again, I reference the Air. We would still have $1799 Airs if that was the case.

2) The 15" and 13" rMBP prices would fall in tandem. I am not asking Apple to do a damn thing. The Air lineup does not consist of only the high-end 13", there is already a wide pricing structure in that line. There is already currently only a $200 difference between the base 13" rMBP and Air, are you telling them there is no cannibalization between those two already?

3) *IF* the regular old MacBook Pros stick around. That is not a matter of if, it is a matter of then they will disappear. But, to respond to your point, do you honestly think Apple would care if the Retina MacBook Pros cannibalizes sales of their regular old MacBook Pros?

The final point I have: The price is going to fall, models will dropped and pricing will get muddy. This is always the storing when you jam new models into the mix.

The question of prices falling is a matter of when, not if. I hold that the price will drop on the next refresh. Presumably you think it is going to be beyond that time. Not matter when it occurs, all of the issues above will still exist and Apple will deal with them.

 

[Krevnik]

I think Apple can discontinue the cMBP just fine even if they can't afford to lower the price point of the rMBP.

It's clear with their current prices that they can price their computers that way not because it costs that much to manufacture, but because people are willing to swallow the high price tags.

Although it will leave gaps in their pricing structure that has worked well for them. By killing the 13" cMBP for example, you effectively push those folks straight to the MBA or out of Apple's product line entirely.

So do I. But I find it extremely unlikely that Apple will drop the price of the 15" rMBP, since:

1) It's generally considered a good value, and a lot of people bought it.

2) Dropping the price of the 15" rMBP even slightly will cannibalize the 13" rMBP, unless Apple significantly drops the price of the 13" rMBP. But if the 13" rMBP drops more than $200, it'll cannibalize MacBook Air. So then Apple will have to drop the price of the MacBook Air as well. And then it's a chain reaction. You're basically asking Apple to restructure their entire pricing tiers.

3) If the unibody MacBooks stick around for a while, then dropping the price of the 15" Retina will also cannibalize them. Same logic as above will apply.

It's pretty clear Apple doesn't care about cannibalizing their own sales. It's still an Apple sale no matter what. It's also hard to say that a bigger, heavier laptop will cannibalize a smaller lighter laptop simply because of price alone. And if it does, what does it matter to Apple as long as the sale isn't going to a competitor? They've said as much on many occasions.

It's worth pointing out that Apple does intend these models to replace the cMBPs in their lineup. They might not settle into the same price points exactly, but a 500$ premium over the existing models is too much in order to outright replace them right now. Its also a bit odd to assume that Apple can't price-drop both rMBP models at the same time in the future. They don't have to price-drop the 15" the moment they can, especially if waiting 6 months to price-drop and do both models at the same time is better strategically.

If the unibody models stick around, it's because they can't/won't price-drop the high-PPI models. I'd imagine that it would go something like this:

- rMBPs get price dropped within say, 100$ or so of the cMBP models.
- Apple watches the sales of both models for 6-12 months just to make sure.
- Apple discontinues the cMBP.