15" Retina MacBook Pro Actually Got More Expensive...

[kwokaaron]

What "Pro user" applications require discreet graphics? Seems more a gamer feature.

No offence but no matter how much it seems useless to the average user would you really call a laptop a "Pro" if it doesn't even have a discrete graphics card? I honestly don't think it'll cost them THAT much just to add a discrete graphics card in their "Pro" laptops. It would be reasonable for an "Air" laptop really but for the "Pro"? Seriously? I thought only having discrete graphics for the 15 inch in the past was bad, this is worst.

 

[Imory]

So let me get this straight. They decided to make the 15" Retina model stay at the same price point as last year, but remove the dGPU?

I thought the whole point of getting rid of the non-Retina models was to later on lower the price of the Retina models and simply replace the old ones. Now it seems they got replaced, but instead they keep the same prices.

Doesn't the 15" Retina cost what the old 17" used to be at?

 

[MH01]

What "Pro user" applications require discreet graphics? Seems more a gamer feature.

Nah must be a pro application requirement , my gaming Laptop has 2x680m SLI

 

[sholzer]

So let me get this straight. They decided to make the 15" Retina model stay at the same price point as last year, but remove the dGPU?

I thought the whole point of getting rid of the non-Retina models was to later on lower the price of the Retina models and simply replace the old ones. Now it seems they got replaced, but instead they keep the same prices.

Doesn't the 15" Retina cost what the old 17" used to be at?

How is it the same price point? lol For the base model, last year, you got 8GB of ram, 256GB ssd, and a GT650M. This year you get the same amount of RAM, same storage space, but faster PCIe based storage, Iris Pro graphics (which will be on par or better for most users), and 802.11ac for $200 dollars cheaper. For the high end model, this gen for 2600 you get 5200 + 750m and 2gb ram plus all the other things above (faster PCIe, 802.11ac), and last gen you got HD4000 + 650m with 1GB ram for 2800. So again you have better or the same specs as before for $200 dollars cheaper

 

[Imory]

How is it the same price point? lol For the base model, last year, you got 8GB of ram, 256GB ssd, and a GT650M. This year you get the same amount of RAM, same storage space, but faster PCIe based storage, Iris Pro graphics (which will be on par or better for most users), and 802.11ac for $200 dollars cheaper. For the high end model, this gen for 2600 you get 5200 + 750m and 2gb ram plus all the other things above (faster PCIe, 802.11ac), and last gen you got HD4000 + 650m with 1GB ram for 2800. So again you have better or the same specs as before for $200 dollars cheaper

So they did reduce the price? People here were raving about it being as expensive as the last time without a dGPU.

Although Iris Pro graphics is not exactly on par or better than the 650m. But we're going have to wait and see Anandtech's review.

 

[Quu]

No offence but no matter how much it seems useless to the average user would you really call a laptop a "Pro" if it doesn't even have a discrete graphics card? I honestly don't think it'll cost them THAT much just to add a discrete graphics card in their "Pro" laptops. It would be reasonable for an "Air" laptop really but for the "Pro"? Seriously? I thought only having discrete graphics for the 15 inch in the past was bad, this is worst.

Professional applications use OpenCL. The Iris Pro is faster at OpenCL than the 750m by a substantial amount.

So if this is a "Pro" notebook all it needs is Iris Pro, running OpenCL utilising pro software on the 750M is actually slower, the only benefit the 750M provides is to games.

 

[bniu]

Actually, for me, things got cheaper. I have a policy of always buying the maxed out configuration or not buying at all. The previous high end 2.8/16/768 costed $3449. Current high end is only $3299. With student discount, I can take it down to $3029. Still got a couple months of AppleCare left on my 17" pro and even after that, the 17" pro outta last several more years, so I'm also not in a hurry to upgrade either...

 

[ppone]

I don't think iris pro or the 750m are in any way meaningfully faster than the 650m.

The speed increase will in the range of 0-30% depending on benchmark or application. Some things you might see decrease.

Apple hasn't mentioned the performance improvements over the 650m on their webpage, if there was any meaningful improvements they would have mentioned it.

I think Apple makes decisions that are best for them and not just the customer.

You know why they released haswell rmbp now and not when the haswell iMac was released.

So that dumb reviewers would compare the 10.9 mavericks haswell rmbp to 10.8 ivy bridge rmbp.

They would conclude that the haswell version flies due to the new gpu. When it was actually Mavericks all along. They also created a framework for smooth scrolling in Mavericks.

Btw I installed mavericks on my ivy bridge rmbp and I see no lag on heavy websites in safari.

 

[nill1234]

Yep the same here. Installed Mavericks on my "old" rMBP 15" and all lag is gone for now

 

[blueroom]

No offence but no matter how much it seems useless to the average user would you really call a laptop a "Pro" if it doesn't even have a discrete graphics card? I honestly don't think it'll cost them THAT much just to add a discrete graphics card in their "Pro" laptops. It would be reasonable for an "Air" laptop really but for the "Pro"? Seriously? I thought only having discrete graphics for the 15 inch in the past was bad, this is worst.

How is it the worst not having a dedicated GPU? What apps aside from games demand it?

Just saying seems more a gaming requirement.

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Btw I installed mavericks on my ivy bridge rmbp and I see no lag on heavy websites in safari.

Do you have an example of a non gaming website that lags because of the GPU?

 

[iPersian]

Don't forget the US prices shown are without local sales tax, EU prices are with.
Still, for the last gen machine you would've paid $3860 (€2800). So more bang for the euro too.

still how much is the tax 10%? 20 % add that up and youll see that EU prices are many hundred dollars more.

 

[Count Blah]

Actually, for me, things got cheaper. I have a policy of always buying the maxed out configuration or not buying at all. The previous high end 2.8/16/768 costed $3449. Current high end is only $3299. With student discount, I can take it down to $3029. Still got a couple months of AppleCare left on my 17" pro and even after that, the 17" pro outta last several more years, so I'm also not in a hurry to upgrade either...

If you were the target audience for a maxed out system, or close to a maxed out system, the price went down slightly. If, however, you are not, then the value for $$$ decreased with this new release, unless the extra hour(exclusively from mavericks?) is of the highest priority.

Mid or lower spec'd folks took a hit, if they desire a dGPU. They would be better if going with a refurb now. If I were in the market, sure as ish, that is what I'd be doing.

 

[john123]

Now actually this is a surprise, a performance decrease for discreet graphics and a price rise!

Err, that's not what the OP said, nor is that what's going on. You can choose between a performance and price decrease, or a performance and price increase. (Or, if TB2 and the extra hour of battery life aren't that important to you, you can wisely get a previous generation model and maintain equal performance.)

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Mid or lower spec'd folks took a hit, if they desire a dGPU. They would be better if going with a refurb now. If I were in the market, sure as ish, that is what I'd be doing.

Yup. Not surprisingly, Apple didn't lower the prices on the 2012 base refurbs at all—and their inventory was exhausted before the day was out yesterday. I found that to be very telling.

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So that dumb reviewers would compare the 10.9 mavericks haswell rmbp to 10.8 ivy bridge rmbp.

They would conclude that the haswell version flies due to the new gpu. When it was actually Mavericks all along. They also created a framework for smooth scrolling in Mavericks.

You are spot-on here. TechCrunch was guilty of this in their evaluation of the machine yesterday, I believe.

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*shrug* if you NEED a dGPU, you probably also want the upgraded storage and memory

I don't know why you would say this. The place where the dGPU matters most is actually gaming, since that's OpenGL, not OpenCL. You don't need crazy RAM or storage as a gamer...

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How is it the same price point? lol For the base model, last year, you got 8GB of ram, 256GB ssd, and a GT650M. This year you get the same amount of RAM, same storage space, but faster PCIe based storage, Iris Pro graphics (which will be on par or better for most users), and 802.11ac for $200 dollars cheaper.

Actually, there are several things wrong in this statement.

For starters, you presume that Iris Pro is equal or better. Per the above, it isn't. Casual users won't notice a difference, OpenCL users will see an improvement, and gamers will see a regression. That does not equate to "on par or better for most users."

Second, declaring it "$200 cheaper" is not real world and suggests you drank a bit too much of the kool-aid . Before yesterday's keynote, you could get an Ivy Bridge 15" Retina off Amazon for $1999. Today, you can get a Haswell 15" Retina off Amazon, Apple, or any other retailer for $1999. Using MSRP as your benchmark is disingenuous, since anyone buying from Apple yesterday was simply pissing away money.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

in denmark the dGPU version will cost me at least 3600 dollars!

What Apple is doing is theft!
have no idea now. i might consider a dell or samsung :-(

I'm looking at the Razer Blade, it's a 14" laptop with a discrete GPU and about as thin as the rMBP. The only downsides as far as I can tell is that Razer doesn't have a track record for laptops, at all. They released their first one roughly 18 months ago, and the Blade has only been on the market for a few months.

Otherwise it's probably the nicest non mac laptop you can get - they even included a dedicated chip to make the trackpad useful.

 

[li3to]

Any idea how does Iris fares vs 6750m 1gb gddr5 from top 2011 model?

I am considering an upgrade but i live in europe so i cant really buy refurb and $2600 looks abit absurd. Not that i cant afford it but i always considered myself a smart buyer and this price just doesnt look that smart.

 

[priitv8]

still how much is the tax 10%? 20 % add that up and youll see that EU prices are many hundred dollars more.

I'm no expert, but US sales tax varies between the states. I'd say it's between 5% and 10%.
The rest of EU vs US price diff is due to other EU taxes. Try to import it legally into EU and you'll be paying the price diff at the border.

 

[pancakedrawer]

What "Pro user" applications require discreet graphics? Seems more a gamer feature.

3D Modelling programs like ArchiCAD, Maya, 3D Max etc. for a start

 

[sonicrobby]

I noticed this and was highly disappointed :[ I would get the high end of that model with the 1TB upgrade, which would cost me upwards of 3100 before tax! Im going to stick with the first gen retina until it completely poops on me.

 

[dusk007]

If you are a casual gamer and want the 2GB 750M it is kind of a cold shower now having to pay so much.

I would have hoped if they do both, iGPU and 750M, they would start at 1800 or even lower and not make the 750M part of a starting config with 16GB and 512GB SSD. Most people are fine with 256GB SSD and especially for gaming you don't need any more than 8GB. It is a lot of unnecessary extra cost.

It does however reflect Apple's strategy of pushing buyers for the higher specced models whenever possible.
The odd things is that serious professionals need to spend less than people that just want a Mac with the best gaming potential because they are programmers (not much performance needs) who like to play games too.
For that extra cost you can almost fit a small desktop that is faster into the price difference, you just cannot move that around on trips.

 

[blueroom]

3D Modelling programs like ArchiCAD, Maya, 3D Max etc. for a start

I'd hazard a guess the majority of professional MBP users don't do 3D modeling. On the other hand CAD users will likely be just fine with Iris Pro graphics.

My 2¢ says Apple removing the GPU on the entry 15" will make a very popular option for business users.

 

[jamesjingyi]

Err, that's not what the OP said, nor is that what's going on. You can choose between a performance and price decrease, or a performance and price increase. (Or, if TB2 and the extra hour of battery life aren't that important to you, you can wisely get a previous generation model and maintain equal performance.)

No, thats what I meant. I mean the price goes up if you want the graphics card, and if you don't and want to go cheaper, its less powerful.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I'm looking at the Razer Blade, it's a 14" laptop with a discrete GPU and about as thin as the rMBP. The only downsides as far as I can tell is that Razer doesn't have a track record for laptops, at all. They released their first one roughly 18 months ago, and the Blade has only been on the market for a few months.

Otherwise it's probably the nicest non mac laptop you can get - they even included a dedicated chip to make the trackpad useful.

The Blade is overpriced without a high-res display.

 

[MH01]

The Blade is overpriced without a high-res display.

The 14 is suppose to be a really good machine with a bad display. The 17 blade is better machine , and a good alternative for people who are interested in a gaming laptop .

 

[MICHAELSD]

The 14 is suppose to be a really good machine with a bad display. The 17 blade is better machine , and a good alternative for people who are interested in a gaming laptop .

They are fantastic; just a shame the displays are mediocre.

 

[TechZeke]

The Blade is overpriced without a high-res display.

Not really. The money that would have went toward a retina display went towards a better GPU.

Also, the blade is a gaming computer. A retina display is the last thing you would want on a gaming computer if you actually want decent frame rates in current games.