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LepusQuan

macrumors newbie
Oct 9, 2012
8
0
I don't think Apple will update the 15 inch models. It's been about 4 months since they came out and if you check the buyers guide Apple has been pretty consistent with waiting at least 8 months between updates for the macbook pro line. This'll probably be like when the 17 inch Intel MBPs came out back in 2006. First they released the 15 inch models then a few months later they came out with the 17 inch models with no update to the 15 inch line. But then again, the buyers guide is just a guide not a rule.

I'll be pissed if they release a 15 inch model update tomorrow as I just bought my rMBP a week and a half ago. Anyone know if its under 14 days and they release a new model can I trade mine in?
 

bchreng

macrumors 65816
Jul 26, 2005
1,058
347
Will be interested in your findings. I don't play games, but I can say that for heavy workloads involving lots of computational analysis and graphics, I never find the rMBP overheating, it performs just as well as my 2012 Mac Pro, which amazes me.

My old C2D white Macbook got pretty warm when rendering videos on iMovie. I wouldn't expect any less from a MBP.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,466
1,893
none
Will be interested in your findings. I don't play games, but I can say that for heavy workloads involving lots of computational analysis and graphics, I never find the rMBP overheating, it performs just as well as my 2012 Mac Pro, which amazes me.

The rMBP has been very tricky to monitor CPU frequencies in real time. Nearly there now though.

Edit: Nope. Darn it! That didn't work and now I can't even start it. Kernel panics so I have to restore from an image. I am able to monitor CPU frequencies and turbo boost on a 2011 MBA, but I can't use the same method on the rMBP. The only way I can do this is via bootcamp, but that's not really proving the point that I am making here. :( Back to the drawing board.
 
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rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
Anyone know if its under 14 days and they release a new model can I trade mine in?

I'd assume that even if you cant trade it directly, you can get a refund and then buy the new one. It depends where you are (country wise) though I guess.
 

nontroppo

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2009
430
22
The rMBP has been very tricky to monitor CPU frequencies in real time.

Yeah, the lack of any reliable frequency monitor makes getting measurements under OS X close to impossible; we can only hope the hackintosh guys (more low-level knowledge of OS X than any "real" Apple community!:cool:) update their tools...
 

Cory Bauer

macrumors 6502a
Jun 26, 2003
615
233
I'd love to see the $2,799 model get 16GB RAM standard; since that's an upgrade you can only get from Apple now, it really limits your buying options.
 

skitzogreg

macrumors 6502
Oct 31, 2007
311
5
Arkansas
I'd love to see the $2,799 model get 16GB RAM standard; since that's an upgrade you can only get from Apple now, it really limits your buying options.

Technically, every upgrade on the rMBP can only be purchased from Apple 'now'. Prices will drop as component prices drop.
 

akdj

macrumors 65816
Mar 10, 2008
1,186
86
62.88°N/-151.28°W
A. price drop - 0% chance

I wouldn't be surprised to see an improved cooling system, because the current one in the rMBP is simply not up to the task. It sucks for us early adopters, but such is life.

Interesting...both of ours have certainly been up to the task. Logic, FCP7/Premier and After Effects, tons of photoshop, LightRoom, Aperture and Illustrator. I've played DiabloIII on it...and I'm terrible at closing tabs...often a dozen or more open in Safari and/or Chrome. In fact, as an owner of both 17" models from 2010 and 2011--my opinion...our rMBP are easily the coolest running, fastest, most efficient machine I've ever had the pleasure of working on. Don't think I've heard the fans, ever. Not that I'm an iStat monitor...but I've got the program installed. Suppose I should pay more attention. Didn't realize it wasn't up to the task til you said so...quite honestly, I've never EVER worked on a faster computer. It's. Amazing.

No early adopter issues here!


Will be interested in your findings. I don't play games, but I can say that for heavy workloads involving lots of computational analysis and graphics, I never find the rMBP overheating, it performs just as well as my 2012 Mac Pro, which amazes me.

As will I. I'm Flat Floored by the performance of these new computers...and the screen is absolutely out of this world. It's truly a dream computer. Plain and simple. I'm glad that's where Apple is headed if the 13" rumors hold true. I hope everyone can afford one of these beauties within 18 months. I never want a non retina screen/spinning HDD machine asset of my life again, ever!

I'm hoping other manufacturers catch on...and Windows 8 starts popping up on retina displays. This high PPI technology is something else. And as a 41 year old male that has just started to need prescription eye wear to read within the past 5 years--it's a revelation. I'm again able to read without glasses.

I'm actually blown away by any nay sayers of the first gen rMBP. Will they get better with each generational change? You Bet! But I can never get the last year of my life back. Regardless of what you've read in negative terms...the rMBP is an absolute engineering/computing marvel.

It truly is awesome. And with the iPhone 4/4s/5...& the 'new' iPad...I've been spoiled by 'retina'. It's not hype. It's real. And it's Awesome!

J
 

wethackrey

macrumors 6502
Feb 27, 2007
259
17
Redondo Beach, California
A. price drop - 0% chance

I wouldn't be surprised to see an improved cooling system, because the current one in the rMBP is simply not up to the task. It sucks for us early adopters, but such is life.
Just what problem are you having with the MBPr? I'm usually running several processor intensive apps in MacOS and at least one VM and I have no cooling problems at all. It runs cooler than any other Mac I've owned in fact. Particularly on the bottom. All of the reviews I've read agree. Anandtech actually has a chapter in their MBPr review titled "Vastly Improved Thermals".
 

terraphantm

macrumors 68040
Jun 27, 2009
3,814
663
Pennsylvania
The rMBP has been very tricky to monitor CPU frequencies in real time. Nearly there now though.

Edit: Nope. Darn it! That didn't work and now I can't even start it. Kernel panics so I have to restore from an image. I am able to monitor CPU frequencies and turbo boost on a 2011 MBA, but I can't use the same method on the rMBP. The only way I can do this is via bootcamp, but that's not really proving the point that I am making here. :( Back to the drawing board.

Are you referring to the thermal throttling? That's been measured. Anandtech found the throttling to be much less compared to other macbook pros. The latest EFI update throttles very aggressively, presumably due to a bug since SMC resets effect it. I don't think that's due to a flaw of the cooling design itself. I actually find that mine will throttle well before the fans even hit 100%.
 
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gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
1,870
5,047
Italy
15" rMBP - Update/pricedrop tomorrow?

untitle.JPG
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,466
1,893
none
I am well aware of what the Anandtech review says guys. I read all of their reviews and have a lot of respect for their work, but I feel that they dropped the ball on this one. If you read the bit about throttling it simply does not make any sense.

They managed to see minor throttling using a relatively non-intense and old game (HL2), yet they could not see throttling using Cinebench. So I decided to dig further. The problem is that right now there is no way to see in real time whether throttling occurs. Anandtech made the conclusion that throttling is not occurring based on the fact that Cinebench produced the same results when they ran it 20 times in a row, or whatever the number was. Yet, a simple game demonstrated a small drop in performance. None of this made sense to me.

If you read any reviews of the same mobile CPUs (there are some on Anandtech's site even) that are in the rMBP (and MBP) you'll see that throttling normally occurs when the CPU cores reach over 90 degrees Celsius. This is how Intel's Turbo boost is designed. Let me be clear though what I mean by throttling. The CPU runs normally at 2.6 GHz (actually it runs at less when it's idling or not busy, but we're going off on a trangent). It also has Turbo Boost which allows the CPU to run some or all of the cores at a higher frequency when a large load is placed, such as a game or a rendering task etc. The CPU will TurboBoost, but if it gets too hot it will throttle back to the default 2.6 GHz, or near that region. So effectively you're not getting all of the speed that the CPU is capable of. If the cooling system in the MBPs was better and able to keep the core temps closer to 90 degrees Celsius, you would see better performance. I can hit 104 degrees Celsius on some of the cores. Sure, that is still below T junction, but regardless it's not very good for the CPU and you're not taking full advantage of Turbo boost.

Now, the problem is that I still haven't managed to monitor real time CPU frequencies on the rMBP in OS X to be able to prove that I am not just a raving lunatic. Please understand that I am not some kid that does not know what they're talking about and I am not here to shout, "ZOMG you guys, this thing is TOO HOT!@!! lolz run for the hills". Most guys will say, "but it's working fine". Sure, it's working fine, but if the cooling system was better, it would work even more fine. This is the crux of the matter. I would like Apple to man up and address it.

I can do this on a 2011 MBA in OS X and it shows some interesting things when you put a proper load on the CPU. Throttling starts at around 93 to 94 degrees Celsius. The 2011 1.8 GHz MBA (i7-2677M) can turbo boost up to 2.6 GHz when both cores are being used. It will throttle back all the way to 2.3 GHz to try and cool itself down. If the cooling system was able to keep up, you would get the full benefit of an overlock up to 2.6 GHz for longer periods of time. I am not going to extrapolate these results to the MBP. As I said, I am still looking for a way to monitor this on the 2012 MBP and right now I don't have the time, nor the inclination to start mucking about with code to resolve the kernel panics I am having with fakeSMC (which is what allows me to monitor real-time CPU frequencies in older Macs).

Going back to the Anandtech review. Cinebench in OS X is a completely flawed benchmark. Why don't you run it and see. I can run it and get a certain score and then I can max out the CPU to 100%, using "yes > dev/null" or another method, run Cinebench again and I get the same score. So trying to use it to ascertain whether throttling is occurring is like using a big stick with a length of about 2 metres to try and measure the precise size of gap that is less than 1 cm. It simply does not work. Cinebench is not stressful enough to cause throttling on a 2011 MBA. I can demonstrate this since I am able to monitor the real time frequency. Therefore, it's unlikely to be able to cause throttling on a MBP, and, even if it did, the scores it will report are completely pointless to gauge whether throttling occurred.

At the end of the day, allowing a CPU to get to just below T junction is simply not good for it, especially for extended periods. Most of us will probably not suffer from the long term ill-effects, because we change these things quite often, but, the cooling system on Apple's portables definitely needs improvement. In my opinion it is pointless to argue against this. Running below 90 degrees will be beneficial to you and to your Mac.
 
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wethackrey

macrumors 6502
Feb 27, 2007
259
17
Redondo Beach, California
My prediction:
Price drop – absolutely not. No competitive pressure yet.
Technical update – unlikely. The only current Intel processor that Apple doesn't offer as an option is the i7-3920XM and, at 55 Watts TDP, I don't see them adding 22% to the thermal load at this point. I wouldn't expect a change in the processor offerings until Haswell ships next year. Beyond processor, what else would they change? The machine has been wildly popular so there's no competitive pressure to change anything.
 

terraphantm

macrumors 68040
Jun 27, 2009
3,814
663
Pennsylvania
I am well aware of what the Anandtech review says guys. I read all of their reviews and have a lot of respect for their work, but I feel that they dropped the ball on this one. If you read the bit about throttling it simply does not make any sense.

They managed to see minor throttling using a relatively non-intense and old game (HL2), yet they could not see throttling using Cinebench. So I decided to dig further. The problem is that right now there is no way to see in real time whether throttling occurs. Anandtech made the conclusion that throttling is not occurring based on the fact that Cinebench produced the same results when they ran it 20 times in a row, or whatever the number was. Yet, a simple game demonstrated a small drop in performance. None of this made sense to me.

If you read any reviews of the same mobile CPUs (there are some on Anandtech's site even) that are in the rMBP (and MBP) you'll see that throttling normally occurs when the CPU cores reach over 90 degrees Celsius. This is how Intel's Turbo boost is designed. Let me be clear though what I mean by throttling. The CPU runs normally at 2.6 GHz (actually it runs at less when it's idling or not busy, but we're going off on a trangent). It also has Turbo Boost which allows the CPU to run some or all of the cores at a higher frequency when a large load is placed, such as a game or a rendering task etc. The CPU will TurboBoost, but if it gets too hot it will throttle back to the default 2.6 GHz, or near that region. So effectively you're not getting all of the speed that the CPU is capable of. If the cooling system in the MBPs was better and able to keep the core temps closer to 90 degrees Celsius, you would see better performance. I can hit 104 degrees Celsius on some of the cores. Sure, that is still below T junction, but regardless it's not very good for the CPU and you're not taking full advantage of Turbo boost.

Now, the problem is that I still haven't managed to monitor real time CPU frequencies on the rMBP in OS X to be able to prove that I am not just a raving lunatic. Please understand that I am not some kid that does not know what they're talking about and I am not here to shout, "ZOMG you guys, this thing is TOO HOT!@!! lolz run for the hills". Most guys will say, "but it's working fine". Sure, it's working fine, but if the cooling system was better, it would work even more fine. This is the crux of the matter. I would like Apple to man up and address it.

I can do this on a 2011 MBA in OS X and it shows some interesting things when you put a proper load on the CPU. Throttling starts at around 93 to 94 degrees Celsius. The 2011 1.8 GHz MBA (i7-2677M) can turbo boost up to 2.6 GHz when both cores are being used. It will throttle back all the way to 2.3 GHz to try and cool itself down. If the cooling system was able to keep up, you would get the full benefit of an overlock up to 2.6 GHz for longer periods of time. I am not going to extrapolate these results to the MBP. As I said, I am still looking for a way to monitor this on the 2012 MBP and right now I don't have the time, nor the inclination to start mucking about with code to resolve the kernel panics I am having with fakeSMC (which is what allows me to monitor real-time CPU frequencies in older Macs).

Going back to the Anandtech review. Cinebench in OS X is a completely flawed benchmark. Why don't you run it and see. I can run it and get a certain score and then I can max out the CPU to 100%, using "yes > dev/null" or another method, run Cinebench again and I get the same score. So trying to use it to ascertain whether throttling is occurring is like using a big stick with a length of about 2 metres to try and measure the precise size of gap that is less than 1 cm. It simply does not work. Cinebench is not stressful enough to cause throttling on a 2011 MBA. I can demonstrate this since I am able to monitor the real time frequency. Therefore, it's unlikely to be able to cause throttling on a MBP, and, even if it did, the scores it will report are completely pointless to gauge whether throttling occurred.

At the end of the day, allowing a CPU to get to just below T junction is simply not good for it, especially for extended periods. Most of us will probably not suffer from the long term ill-effects, because we change these things quite often, but, the cooling system on Apple's portables definitely needs improvement. In my opinion it is pointless to argue against this. Running below 90 degrees will be beneficial to you and to your Mac.

Cinebench isn't that stressful apparently - notice the cMBP he was comparing to didn't throttle either, while it displayed much more aggressive throttling in HL2. I dont think cinebench utilizes the GPU as much. And try running the HL2 benchmark yourself - even though it's older, GPU usage does hit near 100% according to GPUZ

Until the EFI update, my MacBook very seldom throttled. Temperatures did get high (though not quite 90 unless ambient was very high), but nothing out of the ordinary for a laptop
My buddy's Alienware gets to 100°C before it starts pulling the clocks back

Throttling is definitely bugged with the latest EFI. Not only does it throttle early, but it throttles without maximizing fanspeed. I find my speeds are much more consistent if I force both fans to 6000. Second, for some reason, after the EFI update the CPU is constantly running at 3.4-3.6GHz when idle, while in game it'll drop to 1.2 -- or if you're lucky it'll at least run at 2.6. This throttling will occur well under 80° for me. All that believes that Apple really screwed up with the EFI update; essentially made speedstep work backwards.

Before the system would actually be allowed to reach moderate temperatures and attempt cooling itself before the clocks were pulled back. Back then my system would constantly run at 3.4 and my temperatures reached about 85°C, which is reasonable for laptop.

----------

My prediction:
Price drop – absolutely not. No competitive pressure yet.
Technical update – unlikely. The only current Intel processor that Apple doesn't offer as an option is the i7-3920XM and, at 55 Watts TDP, I don't see them adding 22% to the thermal load at this point. I wouldn't expect a change in the processor offerings until Haswell ships next year. Beyond processor, what else would they change? The machine has been wildly popular so there's no competitive pressure to change anything.

Intel released spec bumps to each tier. The 3630, 3740, and 3840 (and 3940) are the new CPUs. All run 100MHz faster compare to the older CPUs, and intel is selling them for the same prices as the previous tiers.
 

vpro

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2012
1,195
65
Apple to discontinue Mac market.

Apple will just simply and quietly discontinue the whole Mac line, so look for them in the refurb at up to 30% off people. Apple is heading in the iOS big time more than ever. These 'notebooks' they recently launched are farce, the true notebook of them all - the 17" mega Book Pro, is still with us, those who were wise enough to pick up a new one while they were still available and did max the fuzz out of them. Just fanciful predictions.
 

LepusQuan

macrumors newbie
Oct 9, 2012
8
0
Just updating the thread with the new news from apple. Yes they released a 13 inch rMBP but they did NOT update the 15 inch with a processor bump or anything. Good news for me cause I bought mine a week and a half ago. Phew...
 

Rhinoevans

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2012
408
63
Las Vegas, NV
Apple will just simply and quietly discontinue the whole Mac line, so look for them in the refurb at up to 30% off people. Apple is heading in the iOS big time more than ever. These 'notebooks' they recently launched are farce, the true notebook of them all - the 17" mega Book Pro, is still with us, those who were wise enough to pick up a new one while they were still available and did max the fuzz out of them. Just fanciful predictions.

Stay out of the cold. You are not thinking Straight!:eek:
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
Just ordered a 15" rMBP - the 13" one just seemed very poorly priced compared to the 15".
 

vpro

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2012
1,195
65
I know it is fun to be not straight!

Stay out of the cold. You are not thinking Straight!:eek:

Just ordered a maxed out 13" retina wooooooooo hoooooooooo

Gonna play with it for 14 days & throw it back in their face for my cash back at the store hahahahahahaaa the look on people's faces is amazing at the store, when I did that with a maxed out 15" toy it was even more memorable !!!
 

DVD9

macrumors 6502a
Feb 18, 2010
816
579
Just ordered a 15" rMBP - the 13" one just seemed very poorly priced compared to the 15".

The 13" is a massive ripoff.

Only those crazies who post YouTube videos of their Apple "shrines" think the price is OK.
 

Mac-Tech

macrumors regular
Jun 4, 2012
214
0
Toronto, ON
Just ordered a maxed out 13" retina wooooooooo hoooooooooo

Gonna play with it for 14 days & throw it back in their face for my cash back at the store hahahahahahaaa the look on people's faces is amazing at the store, when I did that with a maxed out 15" toy it was even more memorable !!!

13' RMBP is WAYYYYYYYYY to EXPENSIVE!!

It is better to get the 15' RMBP
 
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