Ok, I've asked just to log that you cannot provide proofs. 
Here are your reviews:
Here are your reviews:
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15in MaBook Pro w/ Touch Strip --- Worth It?
- Thread starter ECB
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Amazing. Do you understand the difference between 13" and 15"? If you can't use Google, I expect you don't.Ok, I've asked just to log that you cannot provide proofs.
Here are your reviews:
View attachment 697024 View attachment 697025 View attachment 697026
I haven't seen any formal tests of the version that only has the Iris Pro, which is what I suppose you mean. It's not really a comparable machine to the versions that have a dGPU. Probably the results for internet browsing would be similar for the 2015 with dGPU, as the dGPU normally isn't engaged in that. I don't recall the details of the video playing tests, but they might not involve the dGPU either.
If you google the reviews of the 2015 and 2016 15" models from Ars Technica and Notebook Check (which has reviews for the 450, 455 and 460), you'll find the results for battery tests for various usages. Notebook Check collects the links for all four reviews in its battery life comparison chart for the 2.9 460, as I recall.
Tried the old keyboard on the MacBook Pro 2015, and it feels cheap compared to the new keyboard on the 2016. Really hard to choose. There simply isn't a 15" from Apple worth the money at the moment. Waiting for the first Pro to loose its beta feel.
Had too many issues with the 2016 to justify keeping it, but the 2015 is simply too old for the price many retailers want for it.
Had too many issues with the 2016 to justify keeping it, but the 2015 is simply too old for the price many retailers want for it.
The MacBook Pro 2016 does have 10:36 hour battery life.
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-15-inch
And I have gotten 14 hours numerous times with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and statistics software running. This was with brightness about 1/2 way. When brightness is above 75% battery life drops to about 6-7 hours running those tasks. While running the dGPU it further drops to about 4-6 depending on the activity and whether or not a secondary monitor is attached.
The 2016 MBP is a really nice machine to use. And for those that think the touch bar is a waste without having used it, I have written the majority of my PhD dissertation in biological sciences with it. Since Microsoft released touch bar support, it has really been much better. Also, Windows 10 runs amazingly on it when needed for various laboratory software. If you have the money go with 2016. If you want to save money go with the 2015, plain and simple.
[doublepost=1492885305][/doublepost]Here is another one. http://www.pcmag.com/review/349093/apple-macbook-pro-15-inch-2016
They found battery life over 11 hours. And if you think 12 minutes is statistically significant from the 2015 model... They I have no answer for you.
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-15-inch
And I have gotten 14 hours numerous times with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and statistics software running. This was with brightness about 1/2 way. When brightness is above 75% battery life drops to about 6-7 hours running those tasks. While running the dGPU it further drops to about 4-6 depending on the activity and whether or not a secondary monitor is attached.
The 2016 MBP is a really nice machine to use. And for those that think the touch bar is a waste without having used it, I have written the majority of my PhD dissertation in biological sciences with it. Since Microsoft released touch bar support, it has really been much better. Also, Windows 10 runs amazingly on it when needed for various laboratory software. If you have the money go with 2016. If you want to save money go with the 2015, plain and simple.
[doublepost=1492885305][/doublepost]Here is another one. http://www.pcmag.com/review/349093/apple-macbook-pro-15-inch-2016
They found battery life over 11 hours. And if you think 12 minutes is statistically significant from the 2015 model... They I have no answer for you.
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No one has said Google is the source. Google will lead you to the reviews by Ars Technica and Notebook Check. This isn't nearly as hard to understand as some are making it out to be.
Under certain circumstances? For sure.
As did MacBook Pro 2015.
The only thing being discussed is that its battery life is on par or slightly worse than '15 and this hasn't been proven wrong yet. To prove this wrong you'll have to test them under same circumstances.
Such a test has been shown for 13" above by me. 13" '16 has almost 8% worse battery life than '15 there unfortunately.
@Sanpete claims he has such a test for 15" and we're patiently waiting when he provides the proof. Maybe he'll end the debate once and for all.
But the debate is over. The links I posted showed the same thing. The 2016 15 inch is pretty much the same as the 2015 in terms of battery life according to both articles. Sometimes it is slightly shorter, other times it is slightly longer. There is not problem with the battery and it definitely should not make or break a purchase as the MBP still has some of the longest battery life on the market.
But it is pretty much superior in every other metric than the 2015. The speakers are quite amazing and loud for such a thin device. The screen is gorgeous and it is blazing fast.
Oh, not again.
There must always be a "But..." even though I've only agreed with you in my last post and nothing more.Yes, the speakers are quite amazing and loud for such a thin device but to some they're barely different from the 2015 where they were quite amazing and loud as well. These 2 statements don't contradict each other.
Yes, the screen is gorgeous but to some it's barely different from the 2015 where it was gorgeous as well. The most noticeable difference - much better brightness - is said to be seen the most only under direct sunlight which is not the way everyone uses their MBPs.
Yes, it is blazing fast but this is barely different from the 2015 which was blazing fast as well.
Therefore all these things are marked as neutral and it is explained to "better go check yourself before you buy" near them as you might not want to pay the premium for them.
Just look at the adjectives you use: amazing, gorgeous, blazing. They're all subjective.
No. Your Laptop Mag link doesn't even compare to the 2015. If you do check their review of the 2015, it reports significantly shorter battery life (9:08 vs 10:32). I don't rely on that source, as it doesn't make clear the tests are the same, but it certainly doesn't conflict with what I've said at all.
The PC Mag link also fails to make clear that the testing is carefully controlled from year to year. That's why I rely on Ars Technica and Notebook Check, which are more clear about that, and which seem to be more careful and thorough in the tests.
So different reviews say different things... Unbelievable. As if the issue is controversial and not a one way street.
P. S. Don't forget to provide the data you make your claims based on. Simply mentioning the reviews is not enough. Follow @JustinRP37 lead.
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P. S. Don't forget to provide the data you make your claims based on. Simply mentioning the reviews is not enough. Follow @JustinRP37 lead.
[doublepost=1492891165][/doublepost]
Stop beating a dead horse. It's dead.
Oh, not again.
Yes, the speakers are quite amazing and loud for such a thin device but to some they're barely different from the 2015 where they were quite amazing and loud as well. These 2 statements don't contradict each other.
Yes, the screen is gorgeous but to some it's barely different from the 2015 where it was gorgeous as well. The most noticeable difference - much better brightness - is said to be seen the most only under direct sunlight which is not the way everyone uses their MBPs.
Yes, it is blazing fast but this is barely different from the 2015 which was blazing fast as well.
Therefore all these things are marked as neutral and it is explained to better go check yourself before you buy near them.
You just seem to have a grudge against this machine. There are way to many threads about people's thoughts on the 2016 MacBook Pro. Honestly, the main problems from this laptop was the initial batch did have a lot of issues. I had to send my first one back (and a lot of people I know had to do the same), but since then it has been perfect. USB-C is a dream, and to those going on about legacy ports, it has not been a problem and I work in a lab with A LOT of legacy crap. Never had an issue. Now if you want to talk about a problem, then discuss the lack of an upgradable hard drive or RAM. Those are big problems for 'Pro' machines, but Apple is not the only manufacturer doing this.
As to your speakers comment, that is blatantly NOT true. The 2016 have a MUCH better design and are 58% louder than 2015: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...louder-built-in-speakers-thanks-to-new-design
The screen is also much brighter than previous models and can comfortably be used with full sun. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...pro-2016-review-apples-almost-perfect-laptop/
The screen is 67% brighter than previous models:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...pro-2016-review-apples-almost-perfect-laptop/
Further I never recommend buying last generation ANYTHING from Apple if you can afford to buy current because they can and have arbitrarily cutoff support for certain features like late 2008 MacBook Pro not having Windows 10 support, just because. So if we are going to discuss issues, talk about the issues that are really an issue. The 2016 is a better laptop than the 2015 and this has been confirmed by just about every publication. And it is certainly faster than the 2015 model because of the super fast hard drive: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/
Lastly, yes before you drop large amounts of cash on ANYTHING, you should definitely try it out for yourself if you can.
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I'm just confused. Battery life is not an issue with the 2015 or the 2016 model. They are both really similar from everything I have seen online. Both of the links posted have stringent tests as well. Ars Technica did not discuss the 2015 in the review I have seen: https://arstechnica.com/video/2016/11/the-2016-13-and-15-inch-touch-bar-macbook-pros-reviewed/
All of the Apple laptops did excellent. I call this case closed on battery life discussion since Apple has been very consistent with battery life.
Using a notebook in front of a client unless you have no other options is not professional. Most people tend to put the notebook between them and the client which is rude and not personal at all. Use good old pen and paper or a tablet instead because you can lay them flat on the table so you can remain in contact with the other person.
The other unprofessional thing here is not solving the actual problem which is trying to mash/pound the keys. The issue is there too with any other notebook, just a little bit less noticeable (the new keyboard makes this issue more noticeable due to the clickyness). I have a colleague who does that and I can hear him type on the old keyboards too (and yes he knows he's pounding them).
Besides it being unprofessional it is also a health risk because mashing and pounding has a negative impact on things like finger joints and such. It is a better idea to follow touch typing classes so you learn a more subtle way of pressing the keys.
As is the case for any keyboard: it is rather personal. Some hate it, some love it, some don't notice or care. And that also applies, to some extend at least, to what someone finds professional or unprofessional.
@JustinRP37, I hope you're a more reasonable person than @Sanpete so I'll try to explain you sincerely.
I'm still not saying that speakers are bad or even at least worse. All that I'm saying is different people have opposite opinions regarding them (me and you to name a few) so better check yourselves when you will be buying.
The same comment as about speakers.). The question is "better" vs "good" for $X difference. And this question is much more difficult to answer and the answer would vary person from person.
However this is meaningless. SSD is technically faster but practically the difference is negligible - read some of the top SSD reviews on AnandTech and you'd understand why. Top SSD market is like muscle cars - amazing but small practical sense. Hopefully Optane will change this soon.
[doublepost=1492893549][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1492893712][/doublepost]
You see, I've had middle to top BTO late 2011, late 2013, mid-2015 and late 2016 MBPs 15". I've had all of them free of charge from my employers. Also I'm a tech savvy guy so I understand the most parts inside. So first - I can compare myself. Second - I don't need to justify money spent to be worth it since I've got them for free so my justification is entirely based on perception and not on money, I won't defend MBP'16 just because I want to show that I've spent money right. Third - I don't like claims made without technical explanation why it is likely so or without unbiased review from respectful organisation. To conclude, sincerely, I don't have a grudge against this machine. I think it's better than 2015 just not THAT much some want to picture it like. And after that I try to explain for possible future buyers who would spend their hard earned money what difference to check themselves and for what difference to rely on online information.
I agree with you but even after all the fixes there are controversial topics and the reasons might be the same. When first problems arisen people started to talk **** about MBP'16 like "2-3 hours battery life". Of course this is not true - we see it now. But at the same time there were even bigger amount of butthurt fanboys (since 1% broken laptops vs 99% normal ones) on the defensive claiming more than there really is, like (I exaggerate) "I've worked in a dark room with lowest brightness on a Word document for 1 hour and only 5% of battery is spent thus new MBP'16 can achieve 20 hours of battery life! DAMN!" Of course we both understand this is not true either. Since then the consensus is slowly balancing up-down-up-down to real value. Reviews help this but the problem with reviews is that a lot of them make claims without providing the explanation of the testbed and one more problem is that testbeds on two review sites cannot be compared directly so one must find reviews of both '15 and '16 models on the same site and it should be trustworthy enough. Without doing it because it's quite hard (not really) people read just the review they agree with and carry this on to forum. It's called confirmation bias I believe. Let's try to fight it.
AppleInsider is biased. Their source is an even more biased Apple. So sorry but I disregard your link. HOWEVER.
I'm still not saying that speakers are bad or even at least worse. All that I'm saying is different people have opposite opinions regarding them (me and you to name a few) so better check yourselves when you will be buying.
Biased source - Apple. No technical testing. Sorry, disregarded as well. HOWEVER.
The same comment as about speakers.
I agree. However 2015 was not bad as well. So the question is not "ultimately bad" vs "ultimately good" where there is a definitive answer (if you're not evil
). The question is "better" vs "good" for $X difference. And this question is much more difficult to answer and the answer would vary person from person.
What stated in article is marketing ******** from a biased source. The same article might have been written about Samsung 960 Pro NVMe long before MacBook Pro came out to name an example.
However this is meaningless. SSD is technically faster but practically the difference is negligible - read some of the top SSD reviews on AnandTech and you'd understand why. Top SSD market is like muscle cars - amazing but small practical sense. Hopefully Optane will change this soon.
This is best advice IMHO. Don't listen to anything written here no matter from me or my opponent. If you have enough cash to freeze for 14 days - buy it, try it, return it if you can't justify the cost.
[doublepost=1492893549][/doublepost]
Amen.
[doublepost=1492893712][/doublepost]
I've just had a thought about Microsoft Surface Book commercial.
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Unbelievable indeed. Again, the reviews don't say different things. Again, the reviews @JustinRP37 cited don't say whether they apply the same standards each year, for example, so they don't necessarily conflict. Again, the reviews I've very clearly cited do apply the same tests to both models.
The two sources you cited earlier don't describe the conditions of their battery tests, so we can't assume they're stringent, let alone the same from year to year. I five them some credence, but I prefer tests that are more specific about being controlled and consistent. (Laptop Mag has some bizarre test measures in other areas, so I'm a little skeptical of their results for other reasons.) The other Ars Technica review is here:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/0...e-2015-15-inch-retina-macbook-pro-reviewed/2/
The 2016 lasted for 933 minutes, the 2015 603 for the web browsing. That's with the screen set to the same brightness, which of course matters. Notebook Check is even more specific about the tests, with the version of the test and the brightness. Their findings are here:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...016-2-9-GHz-460-Notebook-Review.195702.0.html
They find 10:02 for the 2016 vs 7:12 for the 2015 for wifi surfing, and 8:36 vs 6:53 for HD video watching.
Stop beating the dead horse. It's painful to watch.
[doublepost=1492895236][/doublepost]
Finally you've provided the sources. Your 13th attempt to do it and you aced it! Congratulations, @Sanpete!
Now to the sources.
Looks painfully similar to 13"
[doublepost=1492896296][/doublepost]
Not justifying the cost does not necessarily mean being in debt if you buy it.
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I don't know if the OP is still following the thread after all the bickering.
I uograded from a 2015 13-inch to a 2016 15-inch. This was mostly because I was being an upgrade junkie but I persuaded myself that this was OK because I "needed" a bigger screen.
All this guff about battery life is irrelevant nonsense to me. I have never run out of battery while using this machine. My battery app reckons I'm getting at least ten hours (pro rata) but I charge it every night and who the hell is using their laptop for more than 10 hours a day and has no access to a power socket if they do more?
I can't tell if the screen and speakers are better. They're fine.
I love the keyboard. I touch type and I do so faster on this keyboard. I personally prefer the aesthetics of it.
I've had minimal issues with the enormous trackpad. It's fine.
The touch bar is a bit gimmicky. Like everyone else, I love Touch ID, though I have an Apple Watch I can use for automatic log-in. Despite being a grown-up, I do actually use the touch bar for emojis. I quite like the volume slider. Occasionally the touch bar is useful.
I can't tell if it's faster than my old machine. Probably is. I still have to wait a few seconds for Adobe InDesign to load. I rarely have to wait for anything else.
These forums can be hypercritical about Apple products. They seemed to pan the 2016 MBP. I have zero complaints about mine. It's definitely an overall all-round improvement on my 2015 MBP.
Of course whether that improvement is worth the £2,200 minus the £600 I got for my old machine is another question.
It basically comes down to two questions: How do you use your laptop and what do you use it for? (That counts as one question, lol.) And: How much does the cost matter to you? (In other words, how rich are you/your parents.)
I uograded from a 2015 13-inch to a 2016 15-inch. This was mostly because I was being an upgrade junkie but I persuaded myself that this was OK because I "needed" a bigger screen.
All this guff about battery life is irrelevant nonsense to me. I have never run out of battery while using this machine. My battery app reckons I'm getting at least ten hours (pro rata) but I charge it every night and who the hell is using their laptop for more than 10 hours a day and has no access to a power socket if they do more?
I can't tell if the screen and speakers are better. They're fine.
I love the keyboard. I touch type and I do so faster on this keyboard. I personally prefer the aesthetics of it.
I've had minimal issues with the enormous trackpad. It's fine.
The touch bar is a bit gimmicky. Like everyone else, I love Touch ID, though I have an Apple Watch I can use for automatic log-in. Despite being a grown-up, I do actually use the touch bar for emojis. I quite like the volume slider. Occasionally the touch bar is useful.
I can't tell if it's faster than my old machine. Probably is. I still have to wait a few seconds for Adobe InDesign to load. I rarely have to wait for anything else.
These forums can be hypercritical about Apple products. They seemed to pan the 2016 MBP. I have zero complaints about mine. It's definitely an overall all-round improvement on my 2015 MBP.
Of course whether that improvement is worth the £2,200 minus the £600 I got for my old machine is another question.
It basically comes down to two questions: How do you use your laptop and what do you use it for? (That counts as one question, lol.) And: How much does the cost matter to you? (In other words, how rich are you/your parents.)
Can't tell if you're joking, but those aren't comparable tests. I've already listed the comparable results.