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15inch PowerBook Problems

it's interesting that they say that there are heat problems. they've moved from a 0.18 micron to a 0.13 micron process for the 7457 and it's only gone up to 1.33GHz. that alone doesn't seem like it would be much of a problem.

isn't the die size smaller on the 7457? could they have heat problems because they're trying to put two of them in there?
 
Originally posted by cb911
it's interesting that they say that there are heat problems. they've moved from a 0.18 micron to a 0.13 micron process for the 7457 and it's only gone up to 1.33GHz. that alone doesn't seem like it would be much of a problem.

isn't the die size smaller on the 7457? could they have heat problems because they're trying to put two of them in there?
Click to expand...


I don't recall the article saying anything about heat issues, as i stated in my above post, we don't KNOW that it is heat issues so lets not get all stirred up about it.

It does mention fan noise but that has been a complaint for the past couple powerbook revisions.

My fan is pretty loud at full tilt on my rev. A tibook.
 
we don't know much about anything regarding the 15" PB other than it should be released soon. This is a page2 thread, anything said in this thread is purely speculative and thus should not be subjected to any sort of analysis.
 
I am beginning to think the 12" PB is meant to be an ibook replacement, but because the motorola chips were so slow, they can't make a formidable ibook otherwise nobody would buy powerbooks.

I think the engineering problems all come from the fact that they are trying to squeeze so much technology in a 1 inch thin computer. Likewise we need bluetooth, the new airport and other modifications making the 15" powerbook truly a challenge. I won't be suprised if the new line of 15" pbs had its own host of problems.
 
Heat issues? Fan Noise.

My speculation on Fan Noise being the issue was not one necessarily stating anything about heat issues.

The PB 12" has heat issues. Right under the left side, where the HD is. Turn on HD sleep, it will be a lot better.

Fan noise also has to do with acustics.

It may also be that they have a limited choice of suppliers for fans, and the ones they're using are technically more powerful than needed, and make more noise, but the model down from those will not always be enough, though would be in ideal conditions. While this is not a major concern, deal with the unit getting a little warmer, or creating a little more noise, it's give and take. And this is but one possibility.

Keep in mind, the chip isn't the only thing that creates heat. Also, more technology is being shoved in.

But again, no reports of the unit having heat issues, only that they are having fan noise issues.

And given the materials they'd be using, I'm not surprised that they would encounter this.

But this is hopeful news, because it *is* in beta, and I'm certain it was nowhere near beta in January, and that many design issues have been resolved.

However, there may be an as-of-yet unannounced feature that is being incorporated into all PowerBooks, which would make sense for this long delay. But again, aside some minor issues with the 15", if Moto had kept their end, we could have had new machines at WWDC.

At least announced.

Right now I'm not expecting anything more than 1GHz and 1.3GHz though I am anticipating new goodies if not in this rev, in the next. I have a feeling Apple is about to do something new with portables that no one else is even close to doing, and will revolutionize the industry again. Of course, until it happens, whatever it is, it's just fluff. I just have a feeling...

Jaedreth
 
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids.
 
That doesn't make sense, though. If they don't sell the new 15" because of remaining 15" Powerbooks on shelves, but no one is buying them because the new 15" Powerbooks are waiting, then it'd be a long, long time before that would work itself out. It just doesn't make sense. I am sure the new Powerbooks will come out the moment they are able to be sold in a practical quantity.
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
That doesn't make sense, though. If they don't sell the new 15" because of remaining 15" Powerbooks on shelves, but no one is buying them because the new 15" Powerbooks are waiting, then it'd be a long, long time before that would work itself out. It just doesn't make sense. I am sure the new Powerbooks will come out the moment they are able to be sold in a practical quantity.
Click to expand...

According to the recent analyst call-in after the earnings announcement the PBs are selling fairly well. There is no evidence that there is a glut of PBs in the channel. The delay of the PBs is clearly an engineering/vendor problem, not a marketing decision. Not everyone reads the rumor sites and those that do don't always believe them. Besides, if you need a PB and you have the funds there is nothing wrong with the Ti Book. It works well.
 
Yeah, I also believe it's purely a technical reason why they aren't selling the new 15" books right now. I remember reading rumors back in April (I think from Macwhispers) and they were declaring that the 15" AlBooks were already finished and in warehouses ready to be sold once Apple clears the channels of the Ti models. Perhaps if there was a large quantity that could be a just excuse for a month or so, but I refuse to believe that Apple has a huge stock of new Powerbooks that they refuse to sell simply because there are a few Ti models on shelves. At this point, I can see Apple wanting to flood the channels ASAP once they have the new models in hand and not withholding them to make a few bucks on selling older ones. If new ones are out, I am sure people would still buy old ones at a reduced price just as there are people buying the old G4 PowerMacs even when the G5 is available for order.
 
Who's to say that we are only going to get 1.3 GHz? Remember most people where expecting only 1.8 GHz for the 970s. I honestly believe that Apple is putting alot of effort into hitting atleast 1.5 GHz with these machines. I could be wrong as I really have no contacts what so ever, but the 7457 is not only a die shrink but other process technologies are being applied. (Which may be part of the reason for the delays) This would explain at least in some part the rumors about heat, because otherwise they should run cooler. A 50% or better raw performance increase would be ideal.

I'm with you as far as the NVidia chip goes. ATI would be a better choice. Even here ATI could have been part of the reason for the delay as it took them a long time to release their last laptop chip.

I'm not sure when it is going to happen, but I think Apple realizes that if they don't deliever something in the next couple of weeks alot of sales are going to be missed for the next school season.

Thanks
Dave


Originally posted by DrGonzo
What a joke, i thought the 7457s were supposed to REDUCE the need for intensive usage of fans... apparently not. How sad is that, they get a NEW cpu that doesn't even have a yield of 50%, runs hot (or so it seems from this), and is starting to look like it's gunna get used in one revision of powerbooks (hopefully g5 is relatively soon). The thing is only gunna run at like 1-1.3ghz which is essentially what the current g4s run at. So i really can't understand any heat issues. If it was shrinking the die and increasing clockspeed by 500mhz i could understand more. And NVIDIA for display chip? I want the Ati 9600 mobile chip, but i want a 15" powerbook NOW and we know that's not gunna happen ;) Well this sucks, but it's really nothing we didn't know before, delays, delays, and more delays...
Click to expand...
 
You'd think they'd switch to ATI, wouldn't you. I thought to myself maybe they would after seeing the G5 lineup. It seems like Apple realized that ATI was higher end since the low end has the nVidia and the high end has the ATI graphics card.
 
Originally posted by arn
er... sorry, perhaps I should put the reason things are page 2'd regularly.

Basically, PowerPage hasn't been especially accurate lately, and this article doesn't provide any substantial new info.

arn
Click to expand...

Maybe we will get lucky and Steve will get PISSED at Motorola and trash the G4 entirely in Powerbooks in favor of lower speed G5's. Lower heat, longer legs, far better markleting sizzle and (gag) he can GET THE CHIPS!

Rocketman
 
ATI vs NVidia

Well, Apple *used* to ship ATI exclusively, and back then ATI wasn't as good as NVidia.

However, ATI stole Steve's thunder, and announced it's new product in a new and unannounced Apple product just days before a MacWorld. It was shortly after that Apple moved to NVidia.

Jaedreth
 
Rocketman: Get the chips...

Sure he can get the chips...

But the logic boards to support those chips won't be available until at least January.

If Apple did scrap G4 PowerBook for G5 PowerBooks, we'd be waiting until Feb or March.

Jaedreth
 
I sure hope I never piss off Steve *shudders* I can't even imagine how much revenge he may have cooked up for Mr. Gates when he someday tears down Windows...
 
Originally posted by neutrino23
The delay of the PBs is clearly an engineering/vendor problem, not a marketing decision. Not everyone reads the rumor sites and those that do don't always believe them. Besides, if you need a PB and you have the funds there is nothing wrong with the Ti Book. It works well.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with rumors or who reads them.

This is not like G4 iMacs vs G3 iMacs, where there is space for both in the line up.

It would be fair to assume that production of the 15" Ti ended quite some time ago, given they are still shipping this indicates some residual stock.

With an update like this Apple have always cleared their inventory first.
 
Clear inventory first

Yes, they have, however, these are not ideal circumstances.

If suddenly, Apple had everything together so they could ship these units, yet they still had inventory, they would likely box them out back of the warehouse, and then sell them cheap on a sidebar on the Apple Store.

Apple knows we've been waiting this long, and Moto has been @%!$#%@ so they are trying their best to get these products to us asap.

Jaedreth
 
Old TiBook's

I know that there are plenty of people out there (including me) who would consider buying an old TiBook when new AlPB's are out. That is of course assuming they drop the price a couple hundred $$. Apple knows that they can clear inventory after announcing new Books by dropping prices on TiBooks clearign the channel can NOT be the reason for the wait.
 
I'm just praying this really deserves to be on page two (or three) and not something we see up on page one in the next month or so.
 
Originally posted by wizard
Who's to say that we are only going to get 1.3 GHz? Remember most people where expecting only 1.8 GHz for the 970s. I honestly believe that Apple is putting alot of effort into hitting atleast 1.5 GHz with these machines. I could be wrong as I really have no contacts what so ever, but the 7457 is not only a die shrink but other process technologies are being applied. (Which may be part of the reason for the delays) This would explain at least in some part the rumors about heat, because otherwise they should run cooler. A 50% or better raw performance increase would be ideal.

I'm with you as far as the NVidia chip goes. ATI would be a better choice. Even here ATI could have been part of the reason for the delay as it took them a long time to release their last laptop chip.

I'm not sure when it is going to happen, but I think Apple realizes that if they don't deliever something in the next couple of weeks alot of sales are going to be missed for the next school season.

Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

Yeah, everyone was estimating low before the 1Ghz 15" was released, too. As much as I cannot stand the "delay" that I believe in because of this site--I mean, why else would I expect a release?--I have been constantly impressed when Apple has ended up releasing their products. The PowerMac G5 is the lastest example of this. Even when the image was leaked of the stats, most people, including myself, as I remember, thought that it was obviously a fake because it was so quick.
 
Too Long

Alas, after waiting over half a year, I've decided to break down and get a ThinkPad.

I haven't been impressed with Apple's offerings in the laptop market. The 12" is too small; the 17" is too big and too expensive. The iBooks, are still in the "megahertz" range. PC laptops seem to be faster than the iBooks, and comprable in price.

I have an old G4 450 at home, and it's the only Macintosh I've ever purchased. With the release of Jaguar, the 450 (with 1.5 gb ram) is a dog. It's slow & clumsy. I've wanted to invest in a new more powerful PowerBook for a while, and have been waiting on the 15" to be updated.

To me, Apple has waited too long, and their iBook offereings are not powerful enough, and they're missing a crucial segment (the 15" in the professional market). I think Apple has waited too long in their updates for this machine, and are losing customers now for it.

I'll keep my G4 450, and use it for music, or maybe a server, but will switch to a more powerful ThinkPad to do my work on. At least those are in abundant supply. I am willing to wait for a better product, but 8, 9, 10 months to a year is ridiculous in the computer industry. My own HO is that Apple really is messing this one up, and losing potential customers for it.
 
Originally posted by Mattski
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids.
Click to expand...
Not quite.

It's at the point where it's BETTER business to introduce the new models soon and discount the old PB's a little. Seeing as though school will be back in session in a few months, and there's already a huge amount of people waiting to get their hands on this new aluminium PB. Not to mention the fact that the wait has been so long, they're starting to lose customers to IBM, Gateway, Dell, etc.
 
Do they actually have engineering problem with 15" Aluminium PowerBook? Or is that another way of saying "We are not getting enough G4 processor supplies from Motorola"?
 
2 g5 processors

Is is possible that apple is pulling an Intel?
It seems to me, that apple may just release the new moto processor and put in in the powerbooks as a g5. kind of like what intel did with ther centrino. then the g4 could become the low end of the line, and go into ibooks, increasing the jump for eveything.

what do ya'll think, this seems entirely feasable.
Andreas
 
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