15rMBP: Early2013 vs Late2013 vs '2014 Haswell/16GB refresh' hardware problems

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by meekeen, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. meekeen macrumors newbie

    Jul 28, 2014
    Hi Guys

    Kinda new here...

    I am a PC guy but want to start my adventure with 15 inch rMBP.

    I nearly bought 2.0/16GB/256GB but then I came across an article which highlighted some serious hardware problems that the Early2013 had namely:
    -display panels burn in/ghosting (LG panel)/yellow tint(Samsung panel)
    -fan issues (random activation, speeding and so on)
    -graphics problems (freezing, crashing)
    -battery life problems

    I must say I was stunned how a machine which starts at $2000 can have so many problems.
    I was originally thinking of buying high spec 15 inch one but I am really interested in Broadwell and it's fanless design (I hate fans) with possibly Beats speakers (at last some good quality speakers), maybe display bumped up to full 4K and new trackpad (what are your bets guys?).
    It turns out it is not coming out for like a year now so decided on lowest spec 15 inch (maybe apart from adding 16GB) in the meantime end maybe change in one year time when the Broadwell is out on rMBPs and turns out to be a big innovation.

    So the question is:
    Do you know if the Late2013 (released in October 2013) has the same problems? Did Apple change panels while doing this refresh? Did they solve other hardware problems mentioned above? Where can I look for info on that please? I am really eager to research this matter and have no problem on spending time on it.
    I am not looking to buy Early2013 model of course BUT if Late2013 has the same issues then...sorry Apple but I am not forking out $2k on a laptop which is not TOP QUALITY.
    Ah yeah, and there is the Haswell refresh, which is going to be announced very shortly (tomorrow?). I don't care that much for CPU speed bump but 16GB in the base model is very welcome as I wanted that anyway. In my mind if this seems to be a very minor refresh then internal architecture and components will be very similar, if not the same, to the Late2013 model so...... will have to do with same bugs and issues.
    So in the end I think that with a bit of luck I could pick up Late 2013 base 15 incher (only with RAM bumped to 16GB) for a good price as they will become 'old models' when the minor 'Haswell CPU bump' update is brought to the market....

    So I just want to make sure the machine I am thinking of getting (Late 2013 15inch base with 16GB) will be free (hopefully entirely) of severe hardware problems of the Early2013 model.
    If not then just buy the new one, minor Haswell refresh hoping they finally fixed it? IF (still) NOT..... I will have to wait for a major upgrade that will arrive with Broadwell next year......?

    Please help..... I have worked so hard to get the money for that laptop...... If it arrives and it turns out it's not such a high quality machine I will be devasted....

    thank you very much


    ps. Can you also advise me if I am thinking correctly about Iris Pro or dedicated graphics card. At the beginning I was thinking of getting the much more expensive one with dedicated graphics as 'more power is better' but..... since I am so excited about Broadwell fanless/4k/Beats, and will be probably upgrading to that in a year or so when it's out, the 'low key approach' of getting cheapest 15 inch for now (since I will be selling it on in a year or so) is the right one to have?
    with Iris (i.e. without dedicated graphics) the battery should last longer and laptop should generate less heat (I hate when laptops generate a lot of heat) right?
    Let me just say I won't be using my rMBP for extensive graphics apps or gaming.
    Most of the time it's listening to music, browsing www (really a lot of tabs open at the same time) and, of course, DJing using Serato DJ.
    Please help and thank you so much in advance guys.
  2. tpjunkie macrumors 65816


    Nov 24, 2002
    I own a 2.3ghz late 2013 rMBP...no issues at all with regard to battery life, display, or fans. No problems whatsoever with it.
  3. TheIguana macrumors 6502a


    Sep 26, 2004

    I would take forums with a grain of salt, people with issues are way more likely to speak out about them than those who have computers that work just fine.
  4. x3n0n1c macrumors regular

    Jul 9, 2014
    I have a late 2013 15" with the 750m. I have none of the issues you have mentioned. I should say that I have owned this laptop for 9 months now.

    My display is a samsung and suffers no image retention, is not yellow, and has no dead pixels that I have found.

    Battery Life is great, and the fans only speed up when temperatures climb to near 90 degrees.

    One thing I very much dislike is how stingy apple is with their cooling, but that is the case for all of their computers except for the new Mac Pro.

    I very much like this laptop and would recommend taking the plunge if it really does appeal to you.

  5. T5BRICK macrumors G3


    Aug 3, 2006
    Don't worry about the people complaining about those defects. Most of the issues you brought up are rare or only noticeable if you're looking for them.
  6. NocturnalJazz macrumors regular

    Jun 24, 2013
    I have a late 2013 15" 750m. Works great. No issues.
  7. Beliblis macrumors regular

    Dec 31, 2011
    I own a late 2011 MBP and just two weeks ago started getting the "radeongate" GPU problems that's affecting many of the 2011 machines. Apple does not acknowledge this as a manufacturing problem (although they DID acknowledge it on the 2011 iMacs!)

    If I had no other choice and needed to buy a MBP / rMBP today I would most certainly go for a model with only one graphics card (i.e. the 13" or lower-end 15" models), just to be on the safe side. Time will tell, and I may be wrong. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were gpu problems showing up for newer dual-GPU machines in a year or two. (And with the poor repairability of the rMBP, reballing the GPU would be a lot harder to do!)
  8. gmikesell macrumors regular

    Aug 31, 2009
    Well this sucks. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my late 2013 MBp 15" (base model). However, having only 8gb ram when, just a couple months later (today), they bump up to 16gb ram stings just a bit. Never the less, regardless what ya go with, the next model refresh will leave ya wanting.
  9. psychedelia macrumors regular

    Jan 28, 2009
    I had five replacements of the Late 2013-version, and they all suffered from the yellow tint issue. Saying this is not a wide spread issue is bollocks. It is simply people ignoring the problem if anything.
  10. x3n0n1c macrumors regular

    Jul 9, 2014
    Were these replacement screens, or whole new laptops?

    From what i've read over the past year, most of the "yellow" screens people have received are when they have the screen replaced and not from brand new purchase.
  11. mfram macrumors 65816

    Jan 23, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    Any "yellow tint" problem can likely be alleviated by re-calibrating the color on the display. I ran through the calibration procedure to make my display color a little more 'cool'.
  12. x3n0n1c macrumors regular

    Jul 9, 2014
    I really want to see one of these yellow screens. I can't help thinking that they are simply more correct, and not overly blue like most screens.

    No way to know until I actually see one in person though and no one else I know has a rMBP.
  13. thunng8 macrumors 6502a

    Feb 8, 2006
    You are talking about the 15" model, right? Broadwell will not be fan less for high end models. The only fanless models will be made for tablets and they are dual cores clocking in at 1ghz base clock or less.
  14. psychedelia macrumors regular

    Jan 28, 2009
    I tried both; four of the replacements were brand new replacements, one time exchanging screens. Same issue each time. The problem isn't that the screen is even yellow, but that it has uneven yellowing across the screen.
  15. eneisch macrumors 6502a

    Jul 11, 2008
    The yellow screen issue is somewhat a matter of opinion (in my opinion :)). A more discerning eye can see the issue while your average consumer generally cannot under normal usage conditions. My belief is that this "issue" is an inherent property of the screen technology/manufacturing process currently being used and is not something that can be "fixed", and that Apple QC has determined what they consider to be a range of screen quality that is acceptable.
  16. meekeen thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 28, 2014
    Yeah it seems like it is widespread but......no one wants to talk about it?
    Look here:
    Thread about it with over 1.4m viiews.... like really?

    How do you run calibration procedure on rmbp? Does it work well? Does Apple support this procedure?

    About Refurbs
    I am not sure anymore. Once I read somewhere that it is Apple's refurb policy to change outer cases and install new batteries on all refurbs but I think this has since then changed?
    As it mentions on the apple website that the laptop may have some cosmetic damage so they must have changed the policy?
    If they did.....I'm not so sure tbh.... Getting $2k machine which has been preused (God knows for how long) doesn't sound right. Plus I would have to pay sales tax on that (I don't getting it from online retailers like BH or Adorama).
    On the other hand I spoke to a lady at Apple and she told me once that sometimes 'refurbs' are actually 'overstock' and have never been used. So.......I was thinking I could get a 'refurb' and it comes and I see it has been used I can always send it back for a full refund, and if it looks like overstock then.... be happy.
    What are your thoughts on that plz?

    I am really enthusiastic about 2015 refresh and Broadwell coming but now I read a bit more I don't think Broadwell will be fanless machine when it's 15 inch version. So there may be a bit of disappointment with that big, 2015 refresh (I mean the screen currently is nearly 4K so even if they bump it to full 4K there won't be that much of a difference, maybe they will finally put some high quality speakers like Beats which would be nice, and there are rumors about new chassis being developed but c'mmon.... how much smaller than current rmbp can they even get.... won't be that noticable imho + reliability problems and flex issues and so on.....plus current machine is state of art design wise so they would have to come up with something spectacular to beat that by a long shot and want people like me to upgrade). Maybe I should get a proper full fat rmbp now then (I mean with discrete 750M instead of base Iris and bump up SSD capacity..... but it's so expensive now isn't it) ???
    What do you guys think about what I said in my first post at the end with Iris vs dgpu 750M and it's influance on battery life and heat generation?
    I will not be gaming often (if at all)..... just a lot of DJing, web browsing and listening to music..... does it make sense to pay $500 extra to jump to higher end version of 15 incher???

    16GB ram
    Guys, as we know the refresh has happened and now base 15 inch also has 16GB or RAM. I am bit tossed now as to which one to get cause late 2013 versions can be had for a good price online but they have to be 8GB or RAM.
    How much important is RAM in the OS X world? Is it really important to have 16GB (like it is in PC world) ???
    For example, how much on average does Mavericks itself eat up of RAM?
    In PC world for example Win7 takes about 1GB for itself just to run.
    Just curious and want to make an informed decision.

    Thank you very much for all advise guys. Much appreciated.
  17. ColdCase macrumors 68030

    Feb 10, 2008
    The issue with rMBPs were the 2012 models. Those few early rMPB issues were straightened out with the early 2013 refresh. Anything after that refresh is as solid as you can get. Any screen or other issues are a rare failure, a statistical thing. There are some highly picky and color sensitive folks about. Probably a laptop is the wrong device for them (use an external calibrated monitor).

    I've owned and well used both a BTO max optioned March 2013 and March 2014 unit. They are both perfect with the nice LG screen. The 2014 is about 10% faster/quicker in benchmarks mostly attributed to the PCIe SSD.

    Bottom line is that any rMPB built after the early 2013 refresh (about Feb 2013 I think) is as solid as any other since. The late 2013 will get you a bit more performance, but unless you are doing a lot of transcoding, you will not notice.
  18. T5BRICK macrumors G3


    Aug 3, 2006
    Apple has always had that disclaimer about cosmetic damage. Refurbs are USUALLY like new. Some are even overstock.

    You're only planning on using the computer for a year until the Broadwell MacBook Pros are released, so why agonize about this? Just buy the base model 15" late 2013 refurb with 8GB of RAM and use it until it's time to upgrade.
  19. Skylitfly macrumors 6502a

    May 3, 2014
    I completely agree with you. I have the base 15" model from early 2013 and zero issues so far. Super happy with my rMBP.
  20. psychedelia macrumors regular

    Jan 28, 2009
    This is not correct, my last exchange before giving up was a March 2013 rev. I don't look at myself as being overly picky, but I do expect an even lighted/coloured screen in such an expensive product. I've been using Apple laptops since 2007, and never did I have this issue until late 2012/early 2013. Personally I'm getting the new 2014 MBP fully specced next week - crossing my fingers the screen issues have been fixed.
  21. Skylitfly macrumors 6502a

    May 3, 2014
    I don't know how so many people are experiencing this uneven screen issue. I know 2 people beside me who owns early 2013 machine and as far as I'm aware all the displays are flawless. I've even checked rMBPs in apple store and honestly... I can't spot anything wrong with these displays.
  22. carmona macrumors newbie

    May 17, 2014
    A color tint is normal for screens. They can't be calibrated from fabric.
    Our eyes will egalize a part of it with the white balance of our brain.

    At the end, if you want reliable colors you need to calibrate with a hardware colorimeter.

    I use a Spyder4Pro. Was surprised about the difference between calibrated and uncalibrated on my MacBook Pro (2010).
  23. ColdCase macrumors 68030

    Feb 10, 2008
    I think you are an exceptional case, and probably your expectations are way too high for any laptop. As far as the OP question, it makes no difference as you are dissastified with all of them regardless :)

    These laptops are not expensive in comparison to similar performing portables. None, as far as I know, can get close to a good calibrated pro screen, which I think you are looking for. These pro screens typically cost the same as or more than the laptop... so you do have do adjust. And, as you have done, don't like it return it and move on to something more suitable if you can find one. Nothing wrong with that, if the device is not suitable for you, use something else.

    I have a nice LG monitor attached for critical video/image work, but the retina screen is so much better for text that I use both at the same time.
  24. psychedelia macrumors regular

    Jan 28, 2009
    My expectations are not too high by any means, my early 2011 as well as my late 2008 MBP's have uniform screens, albeit non-retinas. There are Windows laptops out there with perfectly uniform lighted screens also (not that I am going down that path ever again) - so it is possible. The problem is Apple's shoddy quality control, or perhaps a problem with the retina screens in general.

    To say this is an exceptional case would not really be correct either. Just take a look at this thread.
  25. Rbk23 macrumors regular

    Jul 8, 2014
    I received my refresh model today. It still has yellow tinting on a portion of the screen. I went through 4 of the previous model so I am giving up and just going to keep this one.

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