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16-Inch M3 Max MacBook Pro Now Costs $7,200 With All Upgrades
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Build quality has always been a strong point of apple products for sure. I am still running mirror door drive powermacs as file servers at work. I still use my MacBook Pro 13” from 2009 when I travel for doing some basic work. I was able to upgrade and maximize ram and storage to ssd’s. Avoiding sending them to ewaste. I have thrown out several other modern macs simply because they could not be upgraded. I am not a supporter of glued together products.
The 990 pro 4 TB has a 2400 TBW warranty. My Studio 8 TB at 98% has a 643 TBW value which would calculate out to a 32,150 TBW value. Assuming the same values on the new systems not a valid price comparison.
The amount of time it takes to develop a cpu almost guarantees that these processors are in development, or have a scheduled time to begin development.
Honestly, I was going to build a Windows desktop for about 3-4K and continue using my old Mac. The Max is at a place where I’m just gonna put in a stand and connect it to a dual 4K setup and, et voila, desktop. Then when I need to relax, grab the Max and crash on the couch.
Exactly. A film production will budget millions to buy kit if that's what it needs, say machines to render the post and that's it, it's recouped in massive sales on the other side.
You can not apply consumer level thinking to pro kit, but with Apple you get the pro kit trickle down and "not junk" into all the products, so you get super quality from apple overall (no operation is 100% perfect), look at the new M2 MBA, they are superb.
Apple has more than made up for its Touch Bar period. I'm seeing the machines most people want with performance they didn't imagine.
On the hunt to find equivalent kit form other manufactures I had a quick look at Dell and I couldn't see where or how to spec a PC laptop with similar top spec, maybe I got close to mid-spec for MBP bit not top spec, what's a good comparator sire/brand to look at?
iCloud has gotten better yeah but you can't compare it with Dropbox still, their chunking method is way more efficient and the interface is really smooth too. I wouldn't use iCloud for storing complex data files other than iPhone/iPad music movies etc. Storing thousands of files with Dropbox always is a breeze, whereas it always takes much more time with iCloud.
Oh yea when it uses all 8 GB of memory and starts using the swap file I definitely see a slow down in performance. More then that I’ll see programs start to freeze intermittently.
I have a 32GB M1 Max studio. And I can hover around 25 or so GB depending on what I'm doing.
I just checked and saw that Microsoft Remote Desktop was using 22 of those GB!!!
Honestly, other than this ridiculousness (thanks M$). I don't notice any slow downs at all. It said I was using about 2GB of swap.
While typing this I'm running another 2 VM's (Ubuntu and Windows 11) with VMware Fusion (13.5, just updated). I have 4 browsers running with an F ton of tabs each (Safari, Firefox, Edge, and Chrome). Seems to be running OK. Now, I'm not rendering anything or playing any games. But, just my general use.
I will admit that 8GB (Shared between CPU and GPU) is a bit weak. But, I don't see anything slowing down or crashing. That isn't to say Firefox will not crash on me or Edge (mostly those 2 if at all). But, I truly haven't seen this machine perform poorly at all. And luke warm at best temp out the back. Mostly it's room temp.
I'm hoping something isn't right on your Mac. Something easily fixable of course.
Yea it doesnt take long for my swamp space to hit 8GB+. My memory pressure under activity monitor routinely hits yellow or even red. Then I start closing some threads like for Firefox. After using the computer for 30 minutes Firefox can easily hit 3 to 5 GB, and the Finder can do the same and that doesn’t include all the other threads from other programs.I have a 32GB M1 Max studio. And I can hover around 25 or so GB depending on what I'm doing.
I just checked and saw that Microsoft Remote Desktop was using 22 of those GB!!!
Honestly, other than this ridiculousness (thanks M$). I don't notice any slow downs at all. It said I was using about 2GB of swap.
While typing this I'm running another 2 VM's (Ubuntu and Windows 11) with VMware Fusion (13.5, just updated). I have 4 browsers running with an F ton of tabs each (Safari, Firefox, Edge, and Chrome). Seems to be running OK. Now, I'm not rendering anything or playing any games. But, just my general use.
I will admit that 8GB (Shared between CPU and GPU) is a bit weak. But, I don't see anything slowing down or crashing. That isn't to say Firefox will not crash on me or Edge (mostly those 2 if at all). But, I truly haven't seen this machine perform poorly at all. And luke warm at best temp out the back. Mostly it's room temp.
I'm hoping something isn't right on your Mac. Something easily fixable of course.
Something is up. I also saw Spotlight using 8GB of ram. Now, I do use it somewhat often but I don't think it's 8GB often LOL.
It is expensive, but it is not at all disproportionate to similar PC laptops, similarly configured. I looked at the "big 3" PC workstation laptops - Lenovo P16 gen 2, Dell Precision 7680 and HP ZBook Fury. Configured as close as I could get them, the Lenovo is considerably less expensive due to a sale (but Lenovo always seems to have a similar sale). It comes out around $5400 after a supposed 45% discount. If you add Lenovo's best screen (which is an OLED), it's around $5600 - I'm not sure which is a fairer comparison, because the LCD Lenovo uses doesn't have Apple's fancy Mini LED backlighting. Anyway, the Lenovo IS ~$1500 cheaper if you get no discount on the Mac (education pricing chops $650 off the Mac, and I'm sure various government, business and other programs take off similar amounts). The New York camera stores will be taking $300-$500 off soon enough.
Both the HP and the Dell, on the other hand, are considerably MORE expensive, at least from their web pricing. The Dell clocks in over $9000, with the HP well over $13,000. I'm sure these prices come down the moment you call them - they're like Lenovo's $9800 "equivalent value" price that they never actually charge. I bet either one is happy to sell a similarly configured machine in the $6000-$8000 range. Somebody's probably dumb enough to pay the web price, but not the majority of buyers...
Looking at a comparably elegant gaming laptop (a 9 lb plastic behemoth isn't a fair comparison), I tried the Razer Blade 16. $4300 to start, with 32 GB of RAM and 2 TB of SSD (both the only available choices - Razer neither sells upgrades nor lets them be downgraded or omitted to add aftermarket parts without throwing anything away. Both are user-upgradeable, although there are only two SODIMM slots, so getting beyond 96 GB isn't possible right now, at least on Newegg. 96 GB of PC5600 RAM is around $300, while 8 TB worth of top-quality PCie 4.0 NVMe drives (two 4 TB units) is around $700. At almost the same configuration (less RAM, but otherwise very close) Razer is at $5300.
These are all Core i9 13950H and 13980HX machines - they Geekbench like an M2 Max (the 13980HX is a little better than an M2 Max - around 16000), not an M3 Max. If the M3 Max lives uo to the early benchmarks, it's considerably faster, and easily worth $1000 more than the Lenovo (after an easy to find discount on the Mac) to someone who needs the speed. Expensive, yes. It's VERY expensive. Overpriced? No, not unless the whole market is. If Apple is overcharging for upgrades (they are charging more than Lenovo, considerably more than Newegg, less than Dell and HP list in their configurator), they may be undercharging for the base machine and making it up on the upgrades.
Both the HP and the Dell, on the other hand, are considerably MORE expensive, at least from their web pricing. The Dell clocks in over $9000, with the HP well over $13,000. I'm sure these prices come down the moment you call them - they're like Lenovo's $9800 "equivalent value" price that they never actually charge. I bet either one is happy to sell a similarly configured machine in the $6000-$8000 range. Somebody's probably dumb enough to pay the web price, but not the majority of buyers...
Looking at a comparably elegant gaming laptop (a 9 lb plastic behemoth isn't a fair comparison), I tried the Razer Blade 16. $4300 to start, with 32 GB of RAM and 2 TB of SSD (both the only available choices - Razer neither sells upgrades nor lets them be downgraded or omitted to add aftermarket parts without throwing anything away. Both are user-upgradeable, although there are only two SODIMM slots, so getting beyond 96 GB isn't possible right now, at least on Newegg. 96 GB of PC5600 RAM is around $300, while 8 TB worth of top-quality PCie 4.0 NVMe drives (two 4 TB units) is around $700. At almost the same configuration (less RAM, but otherwise very close) Razer is at $5300.
These are all Core i9 13950H and 13980HX machines - they Geekbench like an M2 Max (the 13980HX is a little better than an M2 Max - around 16000), not an M3 Max. If the M3 Max lives uo to the early benchmarks, it's considerably faster, and easily worth $1000 more than the Lenovo (after an easy to find discount on the Mac) to someone who needs the speed. Expensive, yes. It's VERY expensive. Overpriced? No, not unless the whole market is. If Apple is overcharging for upgrades (they are charging more than Lenovo, considerably more than Newegg, less than Dell and HP list in their configurator), they may be undercharging for the base machine and making it up on the upgrades.
So people here don't care because mac lovers doesn't (can't) play video games on their computers.
That's a nice broad brush you have there.
In all seriousness, you don't have to game on a gaming laptop. You can use it to 3d model, render 4k video, code large project, AI development, etc.,
It's a completely different and meaningless value comparison. I am not going to be able to use a gaming laptop the same way I use a Macbook. For example, a gaming laptop is going to throttle heavily the instance it's not plugged in to power, and is also typically way heavier and bulkier to boot. You also likely won't get more than 2-3 hours of battery life out of a gaming laptop, compared to a 16" MBP which can easily give 6-8 hours of intense work use and is therefore more useful on the go.
So at the end of the day, you pay less for less (utility). Or you can do the reverse for a Mac. Seems pretty fair to me.
Like it save for wanting more RAM. In 2015, I got the MBP 15" with 512/16 which was a sweet spot. I got about 6 years of GREAT use from it. It still works but is retired. The way things have changed with RAM usage, Getting less than 32 seems a mistake and getting around 64 is icing for avid users who don't engage super intensive apps where RAM is concerned.
Gaming laptops of comparable build quality are not "thousands and thousands" less. Yes, they can be less, but not that much less. 10 lb generic Clevos - sure - those can be MUCH less. Machines where nobody's thought out the cooling - sure, those can be MUCH less.
Even something that is close to comparable quality with well designed cooling, like a Blade 16 (itself expensive if upgraded to this kind of spec, although admittedly significantly less than the MBP), is drawing hundreds of watts more, so it'll throttle very quickly (even if it's plugged in), because it can't cool itself sustainably. It will also throttle IMMEDIATELY on battery, because it simply can't pull its full load from the battery even in a burst. It gets no more than three hours on battery, even using Word, because it has an idle power around 30 watts.
Apple's 22 hour battery life is disingenuous - the reason they claim watching videos as their battery life test is that they can turn off most of the CPU and just ride the Media Engine and an efficiency core or two. That said, I bet its working idle state (Word, Mail, Safari) is only about seven watts, so it may well have a battery life of 14 hours or so in a more realistic situation.
It also probably has six or seven hours editing photos or even videos, because that's bursty work. It'll go up to 90 watts for a few seconds or even a minute, then back down to something barely above a working idle until you throw the next task at it. It certainly won't do six or seven hours if you throw one big batch export at it, but interactive editing, I bet it will (Macs are great at shifting power states).
Even something that is close to comparable quality with well designed cooling, like a Blade 16 (itself expensive if upgraded to this kind of spec, although admittedly significantly less than the MBP), is drawing hundreds of watts more, so it'll throttle very quickly (even if it's plugged in), because it can't cool itself sustainably. It will also throttle IMMEDIATELY on battery, because it simply can't pull its full load from the battery even in a burst. It gets no more than three hours on battery, even using Word, because it has an idle power around 30 watts.
Apple's 22 hour battery life is disingenuous - the reason they claim watching videos as their battery life test is that they can turn off most of the CPU and just ride the Media Engine and an efficiency core or two. That said, I bet its working idle state (Word, Mail, Safari) is only about seven watts, so it may well have a battery life of 14 hours or so in a more realistic situation.
It also probably has six or seven hours editing photos or even videos, because that's bursty work. It'll go up to 90 watts for a few seconds or even a minute, then back down to something barely above a working idle until you throw the next task at it. It certainly won't do six or seven hours if you throw one big batch export at it, but interactive editing, I bet it will (Macs are great at shifting power states).
The Razer is also MUCH heavier - if anyone knows of a lighter i9/4090 gaming laptop, let me know. The computer itself is only 0.6 lbs heavier, which is noticeable but not huge.
There's a much bigger difference, though. Apple's adapter weighs only half a pound (plus an ounce or two for the MagSafe cable). The Apple adapter may or may not always be necessary, depending what you are doing for the day.
Razer's adapter, which is always part of the package due to short battery life, weighs 1.8 lbs, and the wall cord looks like a 3-prong IEC connector - I bet that's not included in the weight. The cord to the computer is probably included, because it looks like it may not be detachable, but the much heavier IEC cord is almost certainly not. A 6 foot IEC cord looks like it weighs around 6 ounces for a standard one, with some being heavier and only really skinny ones being lighter. That's a 330 watt adapter, you don't want to use a super-tiny IEC cord...
There's a much bigger difference, though. Apple's adapter weighs only half a pound (plus an ounce or two for the MagSafe cable). The Apple adapter may or may not always be necessary, depending what you are doing for the day.
Razer's adapter, which is always part of the package due to short battery life, weighs 1.8 lbs, and the wall cord looks like a 3-prong IEC connector - I bet that's not included in the weight. The cord to the computer is probably included, because it looks like it may not be detachable, but the much heavier IEC cord is almost certainly not. A 6 foot IEC cord looks like it weighs around 6 ounces for a standard one, with some being heavier and only really skinny ones being lighter. That's a 330 watt adapter, you don't want to use a super-tiny IEC cord...
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For you that seems very true. And I am really happy for you getting what you want. For me? I got an i7-13700HX, 32GB RAM, 2TB NVME SSD, and RTX 4060 8GB GPU for around $1150--which saved me around $2k from an equivalent refurbed 16" MBP.
Okay, I had to get refurbed, but it came with a 2 year warranty. I don't care that it is somewhat heavier, I don't care that it can run the fans when needed (not with normal usage), and I especially don't need it away from my desks, so the 4-6 hour battery life matters not at all.
I can do all the things I need to do and play Apex Legends, Baldur's Gate 3, and every other game on high settings. For just over a thousand dollars.
So I paid less and got more. See how that works, we all get what we need and are happy with it.
Right, if all these things are important to you, spend the extra money and get what works for you. I added 2 16GB RAM chips for $70 and an extra 1TB NVME (it had a second slot) for $50. That would have been thousands in a mac since I have to buy a custom unit when purchasing.
Again, it is thousands cheaper. As you pointed out, there are drawbacks. I don't care about battery life, weight, or fan noise when it is doing something intense. So we are both good, I just paid less.