16-Inch MacBook Pro Returns to Pre-2016 Arrow Key Layout, Sticks With 720p Webcam and 802.11ac Wi-Fi

[theorist9]

Not a reply to anyone in particular, just a general thought.

Regarding the whether Apple solders RAM and storage b/c it improves reliability/size/weight, or because they want to make more money (or, perhaps more accurately, is taking advantage those design decisions to make more money): It doesn't have to be one or the other; it could be both:

1) Soldering RAM & storage likely improves reliability. The fact that Consumer Report's annual independent survey of its members finds that Apple's laptops consistently have the lowest average failure rate of any brand supports this.

2) We know Apple prioritizes smallness and lightness in their portable devices, and soldered RAM and storage helps them achieve this.

3) The fact that Apple clearly overcharges for added RAM may indicate they are taking advantage of the fact that it is soldered to increase their per-unit profit. I say "may" because they also overcharge for RAM on the iMac, and there it is user-replaceable.

With storage, it's harder to say. The RAM they use is generic in terms of performance. But that's not as clearly the case with their SSDs, which have provided exceptional performance; so perhaps they are sourcing especially expensive parts for those.

 

[ignatius345]

It’s not so much defending the design as perfect as it was playing the voice of reason for users claiming a hardware design flaw and an immediate recall of all butterfly keyboards should happen immediately.

It was clear the issue wasn’t urgent enough to take any sort of rash or immediate action.

Bottom line, it was a vocal minority and Apple correctly waited to improve the design in the next iteration, as I predicted.

All of you screaming your head off were the wrong ones.

you left out the part where every Mac with that keyboard has a special warranty to cover it when it fails.

 

[Baymowe335]

you left out the part where every Mac with that keyboard has a special warranty to cover it when it fails.

How many of them fail?

 

[Peperino]

They screwed up with the keyboard. They’re admitting it, wearing it (extending the warranty), and backpedaling on it so they don't have to keep wearing it forever (new MBP has scissor keyboard again). If they screwed up with repair cost of this soldered RAM (and SSD) choice why aren’t they backpedaling on that too?

Very simple.
- Because they can charge MORE MONEY FOR REPAIRS.
- Because if anything fails and is too expensive to repair, then you need to buy a new computer.

Hence, in other points
- Soldering components generate more trash
- It a simple RAM or any component fails, you are more prone to lose your data.

The only reason they it took them 3 years to change and barely acknowledge the bad keyboard design was because of Apple's arrogance in design. But users complains, class action lawsuits and bad reviews make them change its mind I guess.
By the way, if you remember the bad reviews on 2016 of the new Macbook pro was so bad, that they offer all the dongles at 50%. How pathetic is that? Sorry but that is NOT what you call a good designed and reliable product.

 

[Nütztjanix]

Anyone worried about the inclusion of the T2 Security Chip?

No.

I think it's somebody else here spreading misinformation: the processor itself has nothing to do with WiFi. There is a separate chip for that available from Intel as well and Apple could've used it in this laptop.

It's not like you have massive amounts of unused boardspace in today's notebooks. Or space in general. And for the next revision (supposedly in a few months, if Intel delivers) you would have to redesign the whole logic board.

It's really not impossible. They just need to design the lid with space for the camera (for 1080p/2160p) or for the Face ID sensors. There didn't use to be space in phones for fancy cameras either, and phone makers started designing phones to accommodate the better cameras.

You do realize that iPhones are a lot thicker than the lids of MacBook Pros?

 

[Ener Ji]

You do realize that iPhones are a lot thicker than the lids of MacBook Pros?

Of course. But the combined thickness of the lid plus the base is much thicker than most phones, yes? Therefore it should be possible to engineer a solution which does not increase the overall thickness of the device.

 

[Nütztjanix]

Of course. But the combined thickness of the lid plus the base is much thicker than most phones, yes? Therefore it should be possible to engineer a solution which does not increase the overall thickness of the device.

I fail to see how splitting up FaceID hardware between bottom case and lid would provide for a usable solution, let alone even be possible?

 

[Ener Ji]

I fail to see how splitting up FaceID hardware between bottom case and lid would provide for a usable solution, let alone even be possible?

That actually wasn't what I was thinking, but might be possible. Dell stuck its webcam below the screen for a while, and it's possible the Face ID hardware could go there.

Regardless, what I was actually thinking is that the hardware could stick out in a bulge at the top of the screen, then it could recess down into an appropriate cutout in the top case. Or Apple could engineer the lid so that there is a bump on the outside. There are lots of possible engineering solutions, it's just a matter of whether Apple thinks it's worth it (both in terms of R&D and in potentially making the laptop a bit uglier).

 

[Nütztjanix]

That actually wasn't what I was thinking, but might be possible. Dell stuck its webcam below the screen for a while, and it's possible the Face ID hardware could go there.

Regardless, what I was actually thinking is that the hardware could stick out in a bulge at the top of the screen, then it could recess down into an appropriate cutout in the top case. Or Apple could engineer the lid so that there is a bump on the outside. There are lots of possible engineering solutions, it's just a matter of whether Apple thinks it's worth it (both in terms of R&D and in potentially making the laptop a bit uglier).

They won't do any of that - at least that's what I hope.

 

[ignatius345]

The arrow keys look horrible.

Yes!
I want full-size arrow keys, please. While I understand that it would affect the look of the keyboard on the MacBook Pro I think it is inconsistent that the size of the arrow keys are so different compared to even the arrow keys on Apple's own stand alone keyboards – which in turn aren't consistent between each other either when I think about it (full-size left and right arrows and small up and down arrows on the compact keyboard for example).

That you, Jony?

This is a conversation about functionality and ergonomics, not little decorative elements. The keyboard is for typing, a fact that's been sadly ignored for the past few years. What matters is that you can easily home your fingers to it quickly and without looking. There's a reason the inverted T has been the standard design for arrow keys for decades.

If it bothers you that much, I'm sure you can Photoshop the keys back the way you find so pretty when you post it to your Instagram.