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Velin

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jul 23, 2008
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Hearst Castle
Worked extensively on the 16" Pro this weekend, had it about a week now. Can confirm the old-is-new scissor switch keyboard is way, way better than the craptastic butterfly. The new keys' operation feels much improved, and the little bit of travel with the new keyboard makes a significant difference. Also, layout and ergonomics are excellent on the 16" machine, including the physical ESC key next to the repositioned Touchbar, and the power / TouchID separate button on the right-hand side of the machine. It's well done. If you're a fast touch typist, you'll appreciate the feel, operation, and ergonomics. Apple got a lot right with this redesign.

With the new 16" Macbook Pro, users may even begin to tolerate the Touchbar, because it feels less intrusive. Having it sandwiched between the physical ESC key and the separate power / TouchID button was the right move. Yes, function keys are still faster and many believe superior, however, the minor Touchbar tweaks are making it better.

Those of us who disliked the butterfly keyboard, absolutely hated it. I can confirm the new 16" keyboard is faster and is more accurate for true touch typists. New keyboard is much quieter, doesn't feel like your typing on a solid piece of plastic, and there's no worry the keyboard is going to fail at any moment. Apple needs to abandon butterfly entirely, and put this revamped keyboard on all its products.

Finally, if you disliked butterfly, pay no attention to those who say the new keyboard isn't good, or butterfly was better. So very many of us want butterfly done and gone, with good reason -- it was horrendous to use. Butterfly sucked horribly to type on, just about the worst keyboard I've ever used out of the box. Loud clacking noise drove everyone crazy. Reliability was garbage, requiring multiple butterfly "generations" as well as multiple extended warranty repair programs. Please, eliminate this failed experiment.

Anyway Apple, ensure you stick with this design, or even improve it with a bit more key travel. Put a stake in butterfly and roll out this "new" keyboard design to everything, especially Macbook Air.
 
So one person that hated the butterfly praises the old style of keyboard. faster too? Ooook got it. I’ll throw my 2019 in the trash because it’s crap. Thanks.
 
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I'll be honest (and this may simply be because I have the very latest MacBook Pro 13" which I know they updated the butterfly keyboard for again), but I actually really like typing on this. I went back to my Dell XPS 13 the other week just to see the difference and wow those felt spongey and inaccurate.

That said, the clear overall failure rate isn't acceptable, so for me personally it's more important that they've fixed the reliability of the keyboard.
 
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I'm still waiting for all of the horrific problems I'm supposed to be experiencing with my 2017 MacBook Pro (non-Touch Bar) butterfly keyboard.
 
So one person that hated the butterfly praises the old style of keyboard. faster too? Ooook got it. I’ll throw my 2019 in the trash because it’s crap. Thanks.
Honestly, the 2019 butterflies appear to be addressed and fixed. The number of complaints on social media are way down.

I bought my wife a 2019 MBA and she loves it. I wouldn't hesitate to own it for several years.
 
Honestly, the 2019 butterflies appear to be addressed and fixed. The number of complaints on social media are way down.

I bought my wife a 2019 MBA and she loves it. I wouldn't hesitate to own it for several years.
Haven’t had any issues with my 2019 15” I got in the summer. I like the keyboard. Always liked the slimmer butterfly style though. But I’m not that picky. I also use a magic keyboard with my external monitor.
 
Sounds like you're set.
Nope it’s trash according to 16”ers. I should feel bad about myself for liking it and bow down to all who think the scissor is inferior.
im going to therapy over it. All we do is talk about how bad I feel typing on .5mm travel compared to 1. Oh the humanity.
 
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Nope it’s trash according to 16”ers. I should feel bad about myself for liking it and now down to all who think the scissor is inferior.
im going to therapy over it. All we do is talk about how bad I feel typing on .5mm travel compared to 1. Oh the humanity.
If it makes you feel better, OP said some things that aren't true. For example, the Touch Bar is still intrusive.
 
Ah, butterflop.

post-14251-Eddie-Murphy-I-see-what-you-di-PAQX.jpeg


Oh well, at least it wasn't another "gate".

I concur though, the 2019 keyboards seem to have solved the problem based on anecdotal evidence on forums & twitter. Only Apple will ever know though.
 
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If it makes you feel better, OP said some things that aren't true. For example, the Touch Bar is still intrusive.
I personally like it. But never used that top row much before anyway. I think the whole topcase looks more symmetrical on 2019’s
 
I didn't mind the butterfly keyboard, especially the 2018 version.

Unfortunately both my 2016 and 2018 eventually developed issues. The 2016 started losing keys (literally keys falling off the keyboard). The 2018 repeats keypresses so frequently it's almost unusable.

I now have a 16" MBP and am quite happy with the new keyboard.
 
I love the new keyboard on the 16" MBP - it is extremely quiet. That said, I have no problem with the keyboard on my 2016 MBP either. Both work as normal. And I have no preference at this point.
 
I tried both side by side at the store. I’m a 90 wpm touch typer. The feel and sound of the 16” is superior.

The perceived failure rate of the butterfly is problematic. I don’t have confidence that the added silicone membrane will hold up over time, especially as grit gets and stays in there. It might not fail in the early years but my long term confidence is low.

I’m seeing objections to the criticism by owners. Understandable but seems largely emotional.
 
I’m seeing objections to the criticism by owners. Understandable but seems largely emotional.

There is certainly some of that going on. If I spend $2000+ on something, I do tend to look for ways to assure myself it was a good purchase. Confirmation bias affects all of us a little bit.
 
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I personally like it. But never used that top row much before anyway. I think the whole topcase looks more symmetrical on 2019’s
It's too easy to accidentally graze and mess up whatever you're doing IMO. Would have made so much more sense to just have the touch bar above the function keys.
 
After every iteration people said “it’s fixed, I’m having no more issues, no need to worry anymore guys”. Then you realise it is just to make themselves feel better because as far as I can see, the latest butterfly key is under a repair programme while the new ones aren’t. I wonder why!
 
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I love the new keyboard on the 16" MBP - it is extremely quiet. That said, I have no problem with the keyboard on my 2016 MBP either. Both work as normal. And I have no preference at this point.
I have been using the 16" for a week
and to me, the 2017" keyboard is more convenient and I type better, but it's just TOOOO LOUD!
So I am really in a quandary about which one to keep.
 
After every iteration people said “it’s fixed, I’m having no more issues, no need to worry anymore guys”. Then you realise it is just to make themselves feel better because as far as I can see, the latest butterfly key is under a repair programme while the new ones aren’t. I wonder why!

I predict this will remain the case for 2019 keyboards. It may take more time but I suspect there will be high failure rates in the future.
 
This is obvious just a matter of preference. I've come to learn that there are many who did and do like typing on the butterfly keyboards. I am not one of them and even went back to my 2015 because of it but there are definitely people out there that like it.

This new keyboard is like a breath of fresh air to me and I really enjoy typing on it. Its fast, quiet, and most of all, very comfortable for me to type on. The butterfly was none of those for me.
 
My new 16” keyboard is a lot harder to type i keep missing the keys and the backlight is annoying at angels the butterfly was thin and easy to type I’m not sure now
 
I liked the old butterfly keyboard (had a 2016 MBP, and then a 2019 May MBP). Upgraded to the 16" and like this keyboard too. They're both good in their own ways. Everyone has their preferences of course, but don't see the gap as large as people make out.
 
Nope it’s trash according to 16”ers. I should feel bad about myself for liking it and now down to all who think the scissor is inferior.
im going to therapy over it. All we do is talk about how bad I feel typing on .5mm travel compared to 1. Oh the humanity.
Just waait 6 month. S untill the keboard startss s failing.
 
Why isn't it possible for both the 16in MBP to have a great keyboard and for the 2019 Butterfly KB to be significantly more reliable than the predecessors? Why does it have to be either/or? Are these mutually exclusive? It seems to me like they are independent events.

I believe Apple worked their butt off to create a great keyboard for the larger 16in MBP form factor. At the same time, it appears that they worked hard to improve the butterfly mechanism. From what I have gathered on tech sites and from my experience with my 2019 MBA, it seems like the 2019 KB is more reliable and improved compared to the older versions. It also seems like 16in MBP consumers are very happy with the new scissor mechanism. Great. We have two winners. That's a good thing.
 
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