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Not all professionals have the same requirements. My spouse runs a small business and 8 GB is plenty. I have many colleagues in academia who are professionals (scientists, professors, and researchers) who also have no issues with 8 GB of RAM.

I’m not saying Apple should stick with 8 GB or that Apple should have included it as the default for all this time, I’m simply pointing out that not all professionals have the same RAM requirements.

Spot on. And further... not all of Apple's 1 billion active users are "professionals." The overwhelming majority are just regular people who have relatively modest computer needs (email, web surfing, Notes, Messages, Music, word processing, photos, Reminders, Calendar, simple spreadsheets, helping their kids with school assignments, using Maps to plan a road trip, etc, etc).

Why should they pay extra for extra RAM that will not offer any noticeable improvement? If you need more memory (because you're mining bitcoin, decrypting foreign adversary secret military communication, gunning for a Nobel Prize discovering the next prime number, controlling your own nuclear reactor, etc) simply pay for it.

Apple has everyone covered.
 
If they make you pay the higher price by default, this is not a win. Needs to be 16GB standard for the same price as 8gb. Apple having 8GB in 2024 on a "pro" machine is ridiculous.
Their actual “pro” machines that you refer to already start at 18GB. The base M3 MBP is for business professionals who are doing things like making spreadsheets, typing up Word documents, or doing presentations in meetings all day. For those people, 8GB is plenty. That’s why it’s not ridiculous. Those people would be paying for RAM they don’t need. Those types of people are pros, just not the kind who spend all their time writing code or running Blendor, Final Cut Pro, or Photoshop. Secretaries, HR people, marketing and sales, and corporate executives are all examples of people for whom 8GB is more than enough… now. That’s why all PC vendors, not just Apple, have 8GB machines targeted at those professionals. People on this site seem to think Apple’s the only company on earth that sells 8GB machines.

The ones that need that kind of power are buying M3 Pro or M3 Max machines which start at 18GB.

If Apple is indeed raising minimum RAM to 16GB, that’s an indication that even those pros that buy 8GB machines will need more to handle future AI features. The idea is to give people what they need, not what they want, in base specs so they don’t pay for what they don’t need. Apple raising the minimum RAM is an indication that people will need more than 8G in the near future for unreleased features.
 
Tim Apple finally realizing he can’t get away with selling a “pro” machine with 8GB RAM.
One would think the last quarter earnings call suggests otherwise…

People buy what they need. You can disagree with the entry point (ignoring the entire industry sells 8GB machines as standard), but it’s the *entry point* that fulfills millions of users across platforms…
 
While I understand what you're saying, I still appreciate apple dropping a spec that'd cause only issues in the future.
This way customers won't be able to castrate their machines.
I remember back in uni, my friends sold their souls to barely afford the base spec macbook pros (speaking of 2011-2012), only to complain about the lack of ram and performance.

Apple makes expensive stuff, and they charge way too much for simple upgrades...granted...
But it's good that customers won't have the chance to go with 8GB of unified memory.

Exactly. Whatever Apple charges for it, 8GB should simply not be an option at the prices they are charging for even the base MacBook Air.
 
I can see all pro machines moving to 16gb

Consumer machines I could see them still sticking to the bear minimum.

Ie if they could move to 12GB to save a few cents they will.
 
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Not everyone with 8GB machines are running apps that stress the system and will get along just fine with those apps for moe than a year or two. As you point out, it's certain apps and thus a use case issue; if you use apps that will require more memory, buy more memory when you buy the machine, if not, don't.
The only anger and hatred I've seen is from MacRumor's posters some of whom think because they need more ram everyone does and Apple should include more at the current or lower prices.

I find it funny that when some point out what a WinBox costs to upgrade and someone suggests they just buy a WInBox, they get angry and say they don't want Windows they want a Mac. Well, if you want a ac you have to pay Apple's prices and until people stop buying at these prices Apple will keep charging them. It's simple economics and good business.
I think the core idea here is that 8 GB is fine for many, but at some point is going to be an issue. Apple is seemingly finally admitting that after making the bold claim recently that it wasn't a problem whatsoever and putting the decreased RAM in their higher end machines. Thats where my core issue came from. I just got my wife a 8 GB MBA because its going to be fine for the next 2 years. If this was her machine for the next 10, it would have been 16 GB, but I was more interested in the 15" screen than the RAM since she was coming from a 2016 MBP, ironically with 16 GB of RAM.

While there definitely is a base of people here who are being a bit ridiculous saying the base should be 32 GB of RAM, I think there is also a bunch of people who have gone overboard on the defense of the RAM issue as well. The idea that you can be a fan of someone and not criticize anything they ever do is nuts. These two sides never seem to want to actually communicate, just say how dumb the other is for having an opinion thats different from theres.
 
Apple previously argued that 8GB on an M3 MacBook Pro is probably analogous to 16GB on other computers because of the efficiency gains of using unified architecture. Needless to say, that argument failed to resonate with many creative professionals
It should "fail to resonate" with anyone who's not huffing excessive amount of Apple juice. 😤:apple:

The best news though is that this (probably) means that it's now possible to custom-order even more RAM on new Macs. Maybe the MacBook Air and the iMac won't be limited to a maximum of 24 GB now? :cool:
 
Predictions for the next 10 years

iPad Pro - 16 GB, 24 GB

Macbook Air, Mac Mini, iMac - 16 GB, 24 GB & 32 GB

Macbook Pro 14/16" - 18 GB, 36 GB RAM, 48 GB, 64 GB, 96 GB, 128 GB, 256 GB

Mac Studio, Mac Pro - 48 GB, 64GB, 128 GB, 512 GB, 1.5 TB
 
Spot on. And further... not all of Apple's 1 billion active users are "professionals." The overwhelming majority are just regular people who have relatively modest computer needs (email, web surfing, Notes, Messages, Music, word processing, photos, Reminders, Calendar, simple spreadsheets, helping their kids with school assignments, using Maps to plan a road trip, etc, etc).

Why should they pay extra for extra RAM that will not offer any noticeable improvement? If you need more memory (because you're mining bitcoin, decrypting foreign adversary secret military communication, gunning for a Nobel Prize discovering the next prime number, controlling your own nuclear reactor, etc) simply pay for it.

Apple has everyone covered.
With the on-device machine learning and shared VRAM, how much does that realistically leave for everything else? Probably less than 4 GB.

I’ve opposed the 8 GB base models because of increasing future requirements and the inability to upgrade. Apple Intelligence is the increasing future requirement.
 
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I think there'll be a bunch of upgrades on most hardware specs leading to a significant price increase, more than $200.

So it's not necessarily like Apple is just going to add $200 to all new Macs for the extra RAM and call it a day.

Although, about $200 actually might be around the price increase we'll see for the entry-level configurations of the low-end Macs with the non-Pro M4 chips, like the next MacBooks Air and Macs mini.

I think it all comes down to whether Apple is still shaky on AI or not, and exactly what M4 Macs are going to be able to do with AI that M3 and older don't get to do.
They might just add additional $100 for the new 16GB RAM and now with ProMotion! and everybody here will be screaming what a great deal. Then under memory upgrade, the options will now be 24GB +$200; 32GB +$400.

Fast forward 2 years after that will be the cycle repeating itself with the you need 24GB… :rolleyes:
 
Serious question: What was Apple's official reason for mostly-limiting user inside access to their machines for RAM and SSD upgrade purposes? Was it really only about greed?
Serious answer - yes, there are genuine technical advantages to using soldered-in RAM and, at least, not using bog standard M.2 SSD modules - none of which explain Apple's upgrade prices or base specs.

RAM:
MacBook Pros- like many "ultrabook"-style PC laptops - switched from regular DDR RAM modules to LPDDR (low power) RAM years ago to improve performance vs. power consumption. LPDDR chips have to be surface-mount soldered to the logic board, as close as possible to the CPU, as the length and impedance of the tracks leading to the CPU are a factor in power consumption vs. speed - until very recently, plug-in LPDDR RAM modules didn't exist. That's why many thin & crispy PC laptops have non-upgradeable RAM too - ones with upgradeable DDR4/5 RAM will take a power consumption vs. performance hit. With Apple Silicon, Apple went for LPDDR RAM across the board, and went to the extra step of mounting the chips directly on the processor package, making the tracks even shorter and probably squeezing out an extra drop of performance. M-series chips do offer comparatively high RAM bandwidth. (Soldered-in RAM started with the 2012 Retina MBP, which used an interrim tech called DDR3L - I don't know if that had to be soldered but it probably ruled out cheap bog-standard DDR3 sticks).

In the last year, Samsung have announced a standard for plugin LPDDR modules - I'm not sure its been seen in the wild yet and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it, but the idea of a M5 package with LPDDR6 'wings' is a nice mental image...

SSD:
There's no excuse for this to be soldered in - seeing as the Studio and Mac Pro do use plug in flash modules which could be upgraded if Apple deigned to allow you (...maybe they're taking a power consumption hit?) However, regular M.2 NVMe or SATA SSD modules include a controller (basically: a computer that makes a bunch of flash chips behave like a virtual disc and talks SATA or NVMe protocol to the host). Recent Macs have had a SSD controller built in to the CPU (...and, before that, in the T2 chip on later Intel Macs) that talk more-or-less directly to the flash chips on the logic board. That also has all sorts of advantages in terms of speed and security/encryption. but rules out the use of cheap M.2 drives as primary storage - even the Pro and Studio modules are proprietary. If they added a secondary M.2 slot they'd have to find some spare PCIe lanes to drive it.

Of course, you could get a Mac Pro (which seems to use disc controller in the second die of the Ultra chip to provide PCIe lanes) and stuff the slots with NVMe drives...
 
Wow. Apple should give everyone who recently bought a 8GB MBP at full price a free upgrade to 16GB. I just bought a new Copilot+ PC with 32GB of RAM for $1,200. The upgrade from 16 to 32 was $99. It is crazy to ever pay full price for a Mac. I bought my M1 Max MBP with 64GB of RAM (which is awesome) for $2,100 at B&H last year.
 
I thought for sure the base model Macs would have 12GB after the 9-core M4 iPad Pro was found to have that amount in hardware (limited for whatever reason to 8GB). 16GB would be a welcome surprise, but only if they don't jack up the price like crazy. I don't mind a small price bump if the base storage goes up too. 512GB needs to be the minimum. That should set them well for another 12 years or so XD
 
It better be 16GB of RAM at same price point, but any "Pro" should come with 32GB. Apple greedied their way with mandatory RAM upgrade long enough - 260$ equivalent for 8GB makes my blood boiling. 😡

Sure 16 is not super enough for hard work, but it's bare minimum. Like I've said many times: selling Macs with 8 GB in 2022/23/24 was/is criminal offense, when in PCs buying 4x32GB sticks DDR4 (R-DIMM ECC) is like 430$.
 
The flip side, if Apple raises prices, is some people will now ay more for RAM they do not need.
We'll see. They lowered the Mac Mini prices twice when the inflation was going crazy and basically every company upped their prices.
Also they're jumping from M2 to M4.
I would accept a raise for this one. But they won't raise it $200, I'd be really surprised.
 
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