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17" MBP First Impressions (DOA sceen issues)

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
They issued an immediate RMA though. No tests nothing. I described the issue, they agreed it was probably hardware. And issued an exchange right there. Didn't make me go through any BS troubleshooting processes.

eV

Also, in the first post I said the screen didn't seem as bright and WOW as the MBP15. Looks like my hunch was right ... A bad video card would affect brightness and clarity right?
 

Edge100

macrumors 68000
May 14, 2002
1,558
10
Where am I???
conditionals said:
Oh man, that sucks about your screen.

It's definitely a bad time to buy a new mac... all these stupid bugs. Quite infuriating.


ARRRGH!

What a silly thing to say. Computers ALWAYS have problems. iBooks had faulty logic boards. PowerMac G4s had REALLY loud fans. Titanium PBs had TERRIBLE Airport reception. The current PMG5s have really aweful USB2.0 throughput.

I have not seen ANY evidence that the current crop of Macs, Intel or PPC, have any more or less problems than any other era in the last 5-6 years.

We are suffering from an acute case of sample bias. I have a FLAWLESS Intel iMac, and I have done my best to report that so that potential buyers realize that while the internet is crawling with reports of this or that issue, there are good machines out there, and they likely FAR out number the flaws.

Where there are problems, they are really obvious. The poor Airport bandwidth on early Intel Macs was a REAL problem. As was the screen flicker on some early Intel iMacs. We know these were common because of the sheer volume of reports.

But it is just simply faulty logic to say that now is a bad time to buy a Mac because there are so many issues. Where is the evidence that there are nore issues now compared to any time in the past?
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
Edge100 said:
ARRRGH!

What a silly thing to say. Computers ALWAYS have problems. iBooks had faulty logic boards. PowerMac G4s had REALLY loud fans. Titanium PBs had TERRIBLE Airport reception. The current PMG5s have really aweful USB2.0 throughput.

I have not seen ANY evidence that the current crop of Macs, Intel or PPC, have any more or less problems than any other era in the last 5-6 years.

We are suffering from an acute case of sample bias. I have a FLAWLESS Intel iMac, and I have done my best to report that so that potential buyers realize that while the internet is crawling with reports of this or that issue, there are good machines out there, and they likely FAR out number the flaws.

Where there are problems, they are really obvious. The poor Airport bandwidth on early Intel Macs was a REAL problem. As was the screen flicker on some early Intel iMacs. We know these were common because of the sheer volume of reports.

But it is just simply faulty logic to say that now is a bad time to buy a Mac because there are so many issues. Where is the evidence that there are nore issues now compared to any time in the past?

He could have meant it's a bad time to buy for HIM.

As far as sample bias, sample bias or not this is my second $3k machine that is DOA. And this one, the MBP17, is literally brand new off the production line. Mine is probably one of the 1st 100 in the hands of customers. And yeah, it's DOA and I'm not going to accept that all machines are bad.

For ME, this isn't fun and for ME, I might agree that this is a bad time to buy MACS.

eV
 

AJ Muni

macrumors 65816
Aug 4, 2005
1,146
18
Miami
Sorry about your 17" MBP eVo...Ive been reading all your posts the last few weeks and seems like you just cant get any good luck. Hang in there buddy, Seems like you've been positive all along and its only a matter of time until you get a flawless machine. If I were you I would talk to apple about receiving a hardware upgrade or some sort of gift card for your compensation due to all this stress you've had the last 4 weeks. Anyways hang in there because at the end of the day your gonna have a badd asss machine!!:)
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
AJ Muni said:
Sorry about your 17" MBP eVo...Ive been reading all your posts the last few weeks and seems like you just cant get any good luck. Hang in there buddy, Seems like you've been positive all along and its only a matter of time until you get a flawless machine. If I were you I would talk to apple about receiving a hardware upgrade or some sort of gift card for your compensation due to all this stress you've had the last 4 weeks. Anyways hang in there because at the end of the day your gonna have a badd asss machine!!:)


:)

Thanks. No point getting pissed off. and anyway, I had the option today of returning it for cash, but chose to take a chance, because as you said, at the end of the day this is going to be a fantastic machine.

What is reassuring is that the whine and heat issues seem to have been fixed. I have had it on my lap for 2 hours now and it really is just warm. I figure the bad video card could be a statistical anomoly that isn't indicative of the entire line. These things go bad in other machines too ...

I like the upgrade idea but I'm not sure what they could upgrade on this one. :confused: It's completely maxed out ... :D

Will keep you all posted ..

eV
 

Edge100

macrumors 68000
May 14, 2002
1,558
10
Where am I???
eVolcre said:
He could have meant it's a bad time to buy for HIM.

As far as sample bias, sample bias or not this is my second $3k machine that is DOA. And this one, the MBP17, is literally brand new off the production line. Mine is probably one of the 1st 100 in the hands of customers. And yeah, it's DOA and I'm not going to accept that all machines are bad.

For ME, this isn't fun and for ME, I might agree that this is a bad time to buy MACS.

eV

I understand your pain. I hope you get the issues resolved.

I'm not saying these new Macs are flawless (they clearly are not). I'm only saying that it is incorrect to claim that this is a bad time to buy a Mac because there are more problems now than there have been before (or because Apple hasn't got the kinks worked out yet). Your machine notwithstanding, there is no evidence of that. I've been on these boards for 5 years or so, and a Mac user for far longer than that, and I've yet to see an era go by that didn't have computers with MANY problems.

The point is, computers are flawed. Even Macs. It is just plain bad logic to infer that they are any worse now compared to any other time, since there is just no evidence to back that up. Now is just as good a time to buy a Mac as any other.

That having been said, I hope you get your machine fixed and in good working order. These machines can really fly!
 

Dyuta

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2006
47
0
Glad to hear that the heat and whine aren't present in the 17" (mine shipped today!), especially coming from someone who has firsthand 15" experience. I hope your video card situation gets resolved soon. Good luck!
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
Edge100 said:
I understand your pain. I hope you get the issues resolved.

I'm not saying these new Macs are flawless (they clearly are not). I'm only saying that it is incorrect to claim that this is a bad time to buy a Mac because there are more problems now than there have been before (or because Apple hasn't got the kinks worked out yet). Your machine notwithstanding, there is no evidence of that. I've been on these boards for 5 years or so, and a Mac user for far longer than that, and I've yet to see an era go by that didn't have computers with MANY problems.

The point is, computers are flawed. Even Macs. It is just plain bad logic to infer that they are any worse now compared to any other time, since there is just no evidence to back that up. Now is just as good a time to buy a Mac as any other.

That having been said, I hope you get your machine fixed and in good working order. These machines can really fly!

Thanks! I took your post the wrong way. When I had my issues with the MBP15 a few people claimed that there weren't any issues at all. At least you admit that there are *some* issues but not epidemic ones.

And, I did have the choice to get my money back - twice now. And even with the latest DOA MBP17, I chose to exchange it rather than return it. As you said, these machines FLY.

Here's some good news - The heat issue has been completely resolved. To be fair, heat is subjective and I didn't think it was hot to begin with. But now, I can actually feel the difference. With 3 hours of use, the top is barely warm. The bottom is warmer but not uncomfortable. And in comparison, the MBP15 was a scorcher. After an hour of use the area above the F keys was DEFINITELY hot. I wonder what they did to make it different though.

My problems notwithstanding this MBP17 is a fantastic machine!

eV
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
I don't want people reading this thread to get th wrong impression. The machine is FANTASTIC. I'm still using it, flicker or not and I know that is an easy fix. Everything else is incredible. I had the MBP15 and can tell you that the heat difference is HUGE. It is running cool believe it or not. Same thing with the battery. It doesn't drop as fast as the MBP15. Whine, there is NO whine. I had a MBP15 and know what the whine sounds like, this machine doesn't have it. I tried it with the magsafe plugged in, plugged out. Ran photobooth and nope .. no whine.

Finally, the fans haven't kicked in once yet. Which seems to imply they did do something different here, right? As compared to the MBP 15 I mean. I hope it's an easy fix so the hot 15" out there can get fixed ...

eV
 

Edge100

macrumors 68000
May 14, 2002
1,558
10
Where am I???
eVolcre said:
Thanks! I took your post the wrong way. When I had my issues with the MBP15 a few people claimed that there weren't any issues at all. At least you admit that there are *some* issues but not epidemic ones.

And, I did have the choice to get my money back - twice now. And even with the latest DOA MBP17, I chose to exchange it rather than return it. As you said, these machines FLY.

Here's some good news - The heat issue has been completely resolved. To be fair, heat is subjective and I didn't think it was hot to begin with. But now, I can actually feel the difference. With 3 hours of use, the top is barely warm. The bottom is warmer but not uncomfortable. And in comparison, the MBP15 was a scorcher. After an hour of use the area above the F keys was DEFINITELY hot. I wonder what they did to make it different though.

My problems notwithstanding this MBP17 is a fantastic machine!

eV


Hope everything gets sorted soon. Excess heat seems to be one of those things that is endemic to these machines, based on the sheer number of people reporting similar issues. Good to know the MBP17 is better.
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
Macmaniac said:
Sounds like someone in China installed a faulty ribbon cable to your display. It might be getting pinched, and that could be causing the flicker. Oh well, Let Apple hit it with a stick!


Would that also make the screen look less bright and vibrant? It definitely doesn't look as stunning as my MBP15

eV
 

overheated

macrumors member
Jun 3, 2004
35
0
delivery dates?

ok.... so the 17"ers are rolling out. i am going to assume that the ones that are hitting are the standard configs. right? i ordered BTO with 7,200 drive on 4/25 and my ship date is all the way out till may 30th. anyone in the same boat?

thanks for replys.
 

assscat

macrumors regular
Jul 29, 2005
126
0
overheated said:
ok.... so the 17"ers are rolling out. i am going to assume that the ones that are hitting are the standard configs. right? i ordered BTO with 7,200 drive on 4/25 and my ship date is all the way out till may 30th. anyone in the same boat?

Ordered mine (stock 120GB) on the 26th April. Shipping and delivery was quoted as 9th and 11th May respectively. Actually shipped on the 6th. Seems to be stuck in Shanghai though. Hasn't moved since Saturday… :mad: Stupid TNT…
 

sunrobby

macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2006
141
0
Indonesia
so the 17" still got an issue, but in my opinion, it's just random, i mean, my MBP 15" is perfect, no whine, and it's just warm. i bought it in apple store, did a hardware test when i bought it, first MBP detected an error and got very hot afterwards. Then i asked another MBP, the second MBP detected no error on hardware test and dont gets warm. And that's the MBP i keep right now. :) I live in Indonesia and the apple store let me play with the MBP before i decided to buy it. :) dont know if your local apple store allow you to do so. But if you purchase online, you can't choose.
 

tsfall

macrumors newbie
Mar 8, 2006
5
0
Grays, Essex
eV,

You say the screen on your new 17" MBP doesn't look as bright as that on your 15".

This is unsurprising. MacTracker lists the 15" MBP as having a screen rated at 300Candelas per Metre squared (Cd/M2), which is a hell of a lot. More than my friends 20" Cinema Display in fact. Apple are touting the 17" as having a 36% brighter display, asssumingly 36% brighter than the 17" PBG4. The 17" PowerBooks were always slightly dimmer than the 15" ones, simply due to the problems in getting an even backlight over such a large area whilst having decent battery life. The amount of power that would be required to make a 17" screen as bright as the 15" would probably be about double, and would wreck battery life.

Hope that explains slightly
Regards
Tom
 

PDE

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2005
2,474
7
tsfall said:
eV,

You say the screen on your new 17" MBP doesn't look as bright as that on your 15".

This is unsurprising. MacTracker lists the 15" MBP as having a screen rated at 300Candelas per Metre squared (Cd/M2), which is a hell of a lot. More than my friends 20" Cinema Display in fact. Apple are touting the 17" as having a 36% brighter display, asssumingly 36% brighter than the 17" PBG4. The 17" PowerBooks were always slightly dimmer than the 15" ones, simply due to the problems in getting an even backlight over such a large area whilst having decent battery life. The amount of power that would be required to make a 17" screen as bright as the 15" would probably be about double, and would wreck battery life.

Hope that explains slightly
Regards
Tom


My new macbook pro 15" (and the the first one I had that I returned) has a very bright display looking at it straight on, but EVERYTHING else suffers because of the brightness filter they use: it has significantly worse viewing angles than the old powerbooks and all macbooks I've seen have uneven illumination in one way or the other. The moral of the story is: brightness is not everything. I'd take my old powerbook G4 1.67 low resolution display over this any day.

I hope the 17" are better.
 

conditionals

macrumors regular
May 5, 2005
167
0
Australia
Edge100 said:
ARRRGH!

What a silly thing to say. Computers ALWAYS have problems. iBooks had faulty logic boards. PowerMac G4s had REALLY loud fans. Titanium PBs had TERRIBLE Airport reception. The current PMG5s have really aweful USB2.0 throughput.

I have not seen ANY evidence that the current crop of Macs, Intel or PPC, have any more or less problems than any other era in the last 5-6 years.

We are suffering from an acute case of sample bias. I have a FLAWLESS Intel iMac, and I have done my best to report that so that potential buyers realize that while the internet is crawling with reports of this or that issue, there are good machines out there, and they likely FAR out number the flaws.

Where there are problems, they are really obvious. The poor Airport bandwidth on early Intel Macs was a REAL problem. As was the screen flicker on some early Intel iMacs. We know these were common because of the sheer volume of reports.

But it is just simply faulty logic to say that now is a bad time to buy a Mac because there are so many issues. Where is the evidence that there are nore issues now compared to any time in the past?

You're right in many respects, however it goes, for me at least, like this:

My powerbook g4 is dying. I need a new one. But I can't buy a MacBook Pro because of the high chance of one or more of 4 widely reported bugs: whine, flicker, hot, bad airport.

This is opposed to say, a year ago. If I wanted to buy a new powerbook type then, the probablility/crappiness of the possible problems was a lot lower. Hence, it's a bad time to buy a mac. Well, a bad time to buy a mac pro laptio.
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
147
Sucks about the screen. I think the whole whine issue is just hype. People get all weird about these things. Hope you can return your machine for a new one, not refurb.
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
jessica. said:
Sucks about the screen. I think the whole whine issue is just hype. People get all weird about these things. Hope you can return your machine for a new one, not refurb.


Oh, I'm getting a brand new one allright. No way would I settle for a refurb. I'm just waiting for the return label to come in. As soon as it gets scanned by FedEx they start making my new machine in China. And it's top priority so I get to skip everyone in line ..

eV
 

chosenwolf

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2006
507
0
Los Angeles
jessica. said:
Sucks about the screen. I think the whole whine issue is just hype. People get all weird about these things. Hope you can return your machine for a new one, not refurb.

It's not.

It's a really annoying uneccessary processer pitch sound that should have been taken care of before being produced and released. I wish I was on Apple's inspection team... how in the hell did no one catch that? It would have saved them tons of money!

It bothers me to the point where I want to shut off the laptop. That's how bad it was for me.
 

crees!

macrumors 68000
Jun 14, 2003
1,920
27
MD/VA/DC
eVolcre said:
NOPE. Got the 15". DOA. Sent it back. They agreed to send me a 17" instead. This one arrived this morning, within 10 mins it's been declared DOA.

Maybe you just have the touch of death. :eek:
 

crees!

macrumors 68000
Jun 14, 2003
1,920
27
MD/VA/DC
conditionals said:
Oh man, that sucks about your screen.

It's definitely a bad time to buy a new mac... all these stupid bugs. Quite infuriating.

It's only a bad time to buy if you don't have the money. I'll put money down on the fact that you don't have one of these new Macs.
 

eVolcre

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 7, 2003
1,979
586
:eek:
crees! said:
Maybe you just have the touch of death. :eek:
:eek:

I guess we'll find out with the next one eh?

hehe.

Crees,

I agree 100%. These machines are fantastic and to be honest, I'm not that worried about my screen. It appears to be a random error that could happen with any PB/MBP. Everything else is fantastic. No whine, no heat, blazingly fast .. and man oh man is the 17" screen cool. I went from a 12G4 to the MBP15 and that was a revelation. This thing is ginormous ... Screen I mean, overall size is quite manageable. I can't wait to give presentations on it for small settings where a projector isn't viable. It's going to blow people away ..


eV
 
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